‘Claude Provost should be in the HHOF’ - Serge Savard

[tinyzombies]

Can’t post link from fb reels but he lays out the case. Covered Hull the best player of the 60s, beat out Gordie one year for first as Rw, 9 Cups. Was Bob Gainey of his time except he scored goals too. Just thought I’d repeat it.

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[frisco]

I don't know if this is that worthy. A guy shilling for a teammate's induction to the Hall Of Fame. I don't think he's a viable candidate, but then again Dick Duff got in. However, if he didn't make it during Savard's 18 or so years on the Hall Of Fame committee...

My Best-Carey

 

[tinyzombies]

I don't know if this is that worthy. A guy shilling for a teammate's induction to the Hall Of Fame. I don't think he's a viable candidate, but then again Dick Duff got in. However, if he didn't make it during Savard's 18 or so years on the Hall Of Fame committee...

My Best-Carey

Pure checkers are kind of a thing of the past, but Carbonneau made it in somewhat controversially by non-Habs fans and Provost scored more than Carbo.

 

[Michael Farkas]

When I went back through looking for goalies, I was sort of surprised how talented Provost was. He never really popped for me before. Maybe it's a matter of deployment...

 

[rnhaas]

I think Provost has a better case than Duff based on regular season numbers but Duff shouldn't be in. Duff has better numbers in the playoffs but I assume he didn't have the same defensive assignments as Provost.

Whatever you may think of the Selke, at least Carbonneau has Selkes. If the Selke had existed back then and Provost had one or more, maybe people would feel differently.

We shouldn't use these borderline, fringe or outrageous inductees as the standard, though. And how many Cups won as a depth player. Where does it stop? Ralph Backstrom? Larry Hillman??

 

[MadLuke]

that a nice shutout to put someone on the map, a name that does not come up much..

7th in playoff even strenght points, second in +/-
Regular season 12th in +/-, and even strength points

When the right wing got thinner with Geoffrion aging out and Cournoyer yet to arrive he did lead the Habs in points one year.

First team all star, byng vote, first winner of the Masterdon:

"Embodied the definition of perseverance and dedication to hockey" throughout his 15-year career.[

I imagine he was quite respected at the time.

 

[JackSlater]

If your case is based primarily on one of your teammates pumping your tires and then people pointing out that you may be better than the absolute worst inductees, you don't really have much of a case.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

tbf claude provost has led a stanley cup winner in scoring

 

[Gorskyontario]

I don't know if this is that worthy. A guy shilling for a teammate's induction to the Hall Of Fame. I don't think he's a viable candidate, but then again Dick Duff got in. However, if he didn't make it during Savard's 18 or so years on the Hall Of Fame committee...

My Best-Carey

He accomplished way more than Pierre Turgeon who made it in recently.

 

[bobholly39]

For what it's worth - I think winning 9 cups is 100% a claim to fame, and it is the hall of fame, so the idea isn't completely indefensible.

A lot of fans look at the hall of fame as "you have to be better than player ______ to be worthy". For me - I'm open to being not as good a player, if you have some really awesome record/feat worth celebrating.

Will Marleau get in for most games ever? Will Phil Kessel get in for 1064 consecutive games? I'd be fine with both really, as I think they're pretty special records. So similarly - if they chose one day to induct Provost on the merit of his 9 cups, I'd be fine with it.

But like others have said - I think this is simply a case of a teammate pumping the tires of another teammates who he respects greatly. I'm guessing it isn't one of the names they're looking at seriously.

 

[NyQuil]

At some point you have to cut off the Habs of the 50s, 60s and 70s.

 

[JackSlater]

For what it's worth - I think winning 9 cups is 100% a claim to fame, and it is the hall of fame, so the idea isn't completely indefensible.

A lot of fans look at the hall of fame as "you have to be better than player ______ to be worthy". For me - I'm open to being not as good a player, if you have some really awesome record/feat worth celebrating.

Will Marleau get in for most games ever? Will Phil Kessel get in for 1064 consecutive games? I'd be fine with both really, as I think they're pretty special records. So similarly - if they chose one day to induct Provost on the merit of his 9 cups, I'd be fine with it.

But like others have said - I think this is simply a case of a teammate pumping the tires of another teammates who he respects greatly. I'm guessing it isn't one of the names they're looking at seriously.

That's true and overlooked when it comes to the Hockey Hall of Fame (rather than the Hockey Hall of Best) but we do already have Henri Richard there, Provost's superior sometime linemate who has the record with 11 Stanley Cups. It's no disrespect to Provost that he ends up as one of the greatest role players ever and a guy with a wildly successful career.

 

[Crosby2010]

I have to admit when it comes to Provost I am on the fence. Part of me knows he deserves it based on who is already in. But the other part of me knows that is not the way to determine if a guy should get in. He's been dead for 40 years, suffered a heart attack in 1984 when he was only 50. That's young. But let's name the 1950s HHOFers on the Habs:

Richard, Beliveau, H. Richard, Geoffrion, Harvey, Plante, Moore, Johnson

Then the 1960s teams of those not on the 1950s teams:
Cournoyer, Laperierre, Savard, Worsley, Vachon, Lemaire.

I'd say J-C Tremblay is the most notable omission from the Hall these days, so he isn't in.

So that leaves Provost, Backstrom, Rousseau and Jean-Guy Talbot as players who won a lot of Cups with Montreal who were good players but not recognized as great and probably aren't making the HHOFer poorer by not being in there.

There has to be that cut off somewhere. With the Islanders dynasty I guess Gillies is that cut off that gets in under the radar while Goring and Tonelli don't. Kevin Lowe should have been on the outside with Edmonton but he isn't. Andy Moog is as well. I am thinking when the Pens or the Hawks teams are eligible for the Hall that the likes of Crosby, Malkin, Fleury and Letang get in, but Phil Kessel doesn't. Ditto the Hawks, Toews, Kane, Hossa (already in), Keith, but not Patrick Sharp or Corey Crawford or even Brad Richards who was on the last Cup. Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman and Vasi will all get in from the Tampa teams. I could see Point having the type of career that gets him in too. Or maybe he doesn't. Bottom line is someone has to be the cut off guy. For better or worse that just might be Provost. The 9 Cups is impressive, as is his two-way play, but Talbot has 7, Backstrom has 6 and Rousseau has 4.

You might argue Pete Mahovlich is the Hab forward possibly most deserving to get in that isn't in yet although he wasn't with Provost.

 

[MS]

Provost is pretty clearly a HHOFer both by the metrics of his career and by comparison to Bob Pulford and Dick Duff whose careers perfectly overlap with his and who were blatantly worse players.

 

[Crosby2010]

Provost is pretty clearly a HHOFer both by the metrics of his career and by comparison to Bob Pulford and Dick Duff whose careers perfectly overlap with his and who were blatantly worse players.

I never like using that standard of "This guy didn't deserve to get in and this guy is better." I agree Provost was better than at least Duff and probably Pulford. But Duff is not a good selection and neither is Pulford. I'd rather have a player in the HHOF who has a comparable career to Provost that is a player in there that is considered someone we'd all pick.

 

[MS]

I never like using that standard of "This guy didn't deserve to get in and this guy is better." I agree Provost was better than at least Duff and probably Pulford. But Duff is not a good selection and neither is Pulford. I'd rather have a player in the HHOF who has a comparable career to Provost that is a player in there that is considered someone we'd all pick.

I mean, Patrice Bergeron honestly isn't far off and he's going to walk in on the first ballot.

 

[Albatros]

He wouldn't look out of place, whether that says more about the HHoF or about him is another matter.

 

[MadLuke]

But let's name the 1950s HHOFers on the Habs:

Richard, Beliveau, H. Richard, Geoffrion, Harvey, Plante, Moore, Johnson

Then the 1960s teams of those not on the 1950s teams:
Cournoyer, Laperierre, Savard, Worsley, Vachon, Lemaire.

Not a bad way to look at it:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

The 300 or more games in the RS and 50 playoff games or more HHOFF that were on the Habs during those 9 cups

H.Richard
Beliveau
Moore
Johnson
Geoffrion
Laperriere
Harvey
Cournoyer

Provost played the most games of any Habs during those 9 cups seasons and lead the forward in +- in the playoff for what it is worth (as a stat and how well it was tracked at the time... it should indicate if anything getting ice time a lot to be on the ice when goals occur).

Richard and Beliveau are the only 2 Canadians players to have been a major piece for all of them I think.... ? Earlys 80s Sabres have like 6 HHOF and the team never won a cup.

But if he and Tremblay get in..... that just start to feel like too much. MTL could make something in between a retired jersey and nothing for them, a dynastie less song hero memorial or something like that, with Backstrom, Provost, Tremblay, Talbot, Ferguson, rousseau etc... Maybe where Duff should have been.

 

[Crosby2010]

Not a bad way to look at it:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

The 300 or more games in the RS and 50 playoff games or more HHOFF that were on the Habs during those 9 cups

H.Richard
Beliveau
Moore
Johnson
Geoffrion
Laperriere
Harvey
Cournoyer

Provost played the most games of any Habs during those 9 cups seasons and lead the forward in +- in the playoff for what it is worth (as a stat and how well it was tracked at the time... it should indicate if anything getting ice time a lot to be on the ice when goals occur).

Richard and Beliveau are the only 2 Canadians players to have been a major piece for all of them I think.... ? Earlys 80s Sabres have like 6 HHOF and the team never won a cup.

Just an aside, I've got Perreault, Housley and Andreychuk on those early 1980s Sabres teams, but not until 1982-'83. Barrasso comes the next year. That's 4. 5 if you include Bowman as coach. Who am I missing here? Granted, those are two very controversial decisions, the other two I am fine with them being in there.

I mean, Patrice Bergeron honestly isn't far off and he's going to walk in on the first ballot.

With Bergeron he was the star on his team for a long time. Generally thought to be the best player on his team, or the second best player. 6 Selke trophies, which no one will ever beat. Played on Team Canada three times at the top level. Critical in the postseason too when it mattered. We just never saw Provost be that guy on his team. Just one year with an off year for Beliveau and having all the stars aligning to lead the team in points. He's just too far down the pecking order to peg him with Bergeron.

 

[MadLuke]

Said it more as a joke thinking I was exagerating a bit, thinking maybe 4-5 at the same time max, it would be Perreault-Housley-Andreychuck-Gillies (just 61 games not that I had him in mind)-Barasso-Bowman.

Played on Team Canada three times at the top level. Critical in the postseason too when it mattered. We just never saw Provost be that guy on his team

I was going to say, in a sea of 30 teams, making the playoff and team canada a lot make you so much more visible versus the rest.

They have little to do with outside its performance, like 2005 world junior being so big because of the lockout year and Crosby, 2 big Olympics medals, "world cup", the most Selke ever, all things maybe Provost would have done having the chance, but did not.

As fame goes, Bergeron, 6x Selke which could be a record that will stand for 50-60 years who know, will be more famous 50 years from now that Provost is right now would be my guess. Fair or not. And he was less crowded by legends on his teams.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Just an aside, I've got Perreault, Housley and Andreychuk on those early 1980s Sabres teams, but not until 1982-'83. Barrasso comes the next year. That's 4. 5 if you include Bowman as coach. Who am I missing here? Granted, those are two very controversial decisions, the other two I am fine with them being in there.



With Bergeron he was the star on his team for a long time. Generally thought to be the best player on his team, or the second best player. 6 Selke trophies, which no one will ever beat. Played on Team Canada three times at the top level. Critical in the postseason too when it mattered. We just never saw Provost be that guy on his team. Just one year with an off year for Beliveau and having all the stars aligning to lead the team in points. He's just too far down the pecking order to peg him with Bergeron.

Bergeron was the 2nd best forward on an average team with no stars. Provost was the better defensive player and likely better offensively if he was deployed on a scoring line.

 

[MadLuke]

Bergeron was the 2nd best forward on an average team with no stars.

During his career, Bergeron team won the most games in the nhl and had the most points by a good amount:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

They wre 5th in goals and where the best defensive team overall (again by a good amount).

Third most playoff wins during that time as well, the Bruins overall where not average but a top teams and during some stretch as well, I do not think this can be controversial, they won the cup, went on 2 finals, won the president trophy 3 times...

 

[Michael Farkas]

Provost was the better defensive player

...than Bergeron? I think that's pushing it.