Bill Peters vs. Rod Brindamour

[SnowblindNYR]

I'm not sure if the main boards is super appropriate for this but I don't want to get infracted on the Canes board. I'm legit curious, this is no way a slander against Brindamour. But didn't the Canes play a similar high shot volume, high possession style with Bill Peters? Is Rod's game plan any different or are the Canes just more talented right now? Seriously, not criticizing the team or Rod, in fact sort of complimenting them. Would I be correct in saying they play a similar style and it just works better now because they have much better players? Or are there differences in Rod's style that you can only see if you follow the team regularly?

Click to read more...

 

[ijuka]

Wasn't the main issue with Peters racism?

Anyway, Canes probably have the best system in the league, and they've consistently punched above their weight with Brindamour.

 

[HisIceness]

The difference between the two is that Peters started falling out of favor by year 3 because quite frankly, he was a jerk. In his defense he didn't inherent a good situation but he didn't really leave it in a better place. Rod was always liked as an assistant.

Their systems I suppose are about the same but the players listen/respect Rod.

 

[bleedgreen]

RBA took few elements of the system Peters used. Peters system featured over the top gap tightening by the defense as soon as the other team left the zone. They wanted to kill offense asap, and this required similar buy in that the canes have now as the forwards had to be on their horse to support the pinching D. It required mobile defenseman which the Canes had in young Slavin and Pesce who were dominant together. Liles and Hainsey were great at it as well, and youngsters like Fluery and Hanifin could skate well enough for it. Faulk struggled with the mobility required and fell out of favor a bit.

RBA doesn’t do this really at all. The Canes play man to man defensively now. Peters offense was also different in that forwards were encouraged to hold onto the puck and create - they just didn’t have enough talent. Under RBA it’s pretty much dump and chase with relentless forechecking. The Canes under Peters were getting Kudos from around the league for playing a good possession based style and were strong defensively but lacked offense and better goaltending.

So no, while Peters teams took a lot of shots too there’s way more differences than similarities. As a Canes fan I’ve wondered if they were better off giving RBA a bunch of mildly talented grinders so they could really embrace the style, because as they add skill it doesn’t always compliment the style. Not a lot of skill players excel at dump and chase. The current squad would maybe be used better under Peters style and the crap teams Peters had would probably be better with RBA’s style.

Remains to be seen how far the Canes can go playing the way they do but they’re gotten pretty far with it. Hard to argue.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

RBA took few elements of the system Peters used. Peters system featured over the top gap tightening by the defense as soon as the other team left the zone. They wanted to kill offense asap, and this required similar buy in that the canes have now as the forwards had to be on their horse to support the pinching D. It required mobile defenseman which the Canes had in young Slavin and Pesce who were dominant together. Liles and Hainsey were great at it as well, and youngsters like Fluery and Hanifin could skate well enough for it. Faulk struggled with the mobility required and fell out of favor a bit.

RBA doesn’t do this really at all. The Canes play man to man defensively now. Peters offense was also different in that forwards were encouraged to hold onto the puck and create - they just didn’t have enough talent. Under RBA it’s pretty much dump and chase with relentless forechecking. The Canes under Peters were getting Kudos from around the league for playing a good possession based style and were strong defensively but lacked offense and better goaltending.

So no, while Peters teams took a lot of shots too there’s way more differences than similarities. As a Canes fan I’ve wondered if they were better off giving RBA a bunch of mildly talented grinders so they could really embrace the style, because as they add skill it doesn’t always compliment the style. Not a lot of skill players excel at dump and chase. The current squad would maybe be used better under Peters style and the crap teams Peters had would probably be better with RBA’s style.

Remains to be seen how far the Canes can go playing the way they do but they’re gotten pretty far with it. Hard to argue.

Interesting, do you think the Canes are a less heavy possibly more skilled version of the 2012-14 LA Kings. I wonder if this style would have worked better in that NHL. Back then I feel like straight up taking shots and crashing the net was more of a common successful style. The Hawks didn't really do that but they were just more talented than everyone.

 

[bleedgreen]

Interesting, do you think the Canes are a less heavy possibly more skilled version of the 2012-14 LA Kings. I wonder if this style would have worked better in that NHL. Back then I feel like straight up taking shots and crashing the net was more of a common successful style. The Hawks didn't really do that but they were just more talented than everyone.

I don’t think the Kings comparison is off but the “less heavy” part is substantial. The Canes biggest weaknesses the last few years in the playoffs have been the lack of offensive depth and imo a lack of toughness/gumption/strength. Limited pushback to being pushed. Those Kings teams had no lack of that. The teams that have beaten the Canes in the past have physically pushed them around, the Canes count on getting calls and then scoring in the power play to balance that. In other years that didn’t work out. Hopefully the moves they’ve made and the development of some of their players will change that. They can still be physically overpowered though. It’s clear in every series that teams want to run them early and often.

 

[Discipline Daddy]

Interesting, do you think the Canes are a less heavy possibly more skilled version of the 2012-14 LA Kings. I wonder if this style would have worked better in that NHL. Back then I feel like straight up taking shots and crashing the net was more of a common successful style. The Hawks didn't really do that but they were just more talented than everyone.

I don't think the Kings are that similar. Way more physically imposing than the Canes. The Canes have more skill. The Kings could rely on elite goaltending, and the Canes rely on their goalie less than any other team in the league. I think some teams, like the current Florida Panthers, forecheck about as hard as the Canes do. However, I don't think anyone does man-on-man on defense like the Canes do.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Good analysis above. I would add, yes Peters was held back by a talentless team. If anything he got more out of them than expected, most of the time. Those rosters were worse than they look, because the big name players were at the very beginning of their careers.

At the time there wasn’t so much of a sense that he was a personality problem. That stuff came out later, after he had moved on to Calgary. Circa 2018, the general feeling was simply that he’d had 4 years and accomplished nothing but racking up Corsi victories and establishing a dumb co-captain leadership structure while settling into a habit of 20th place finishes. Everything, and I mean everything changed after he was fired, from the ownership approach to the budget to the GM to the coach to the captain to multiple major trades to multiple key breakouts. It gives the appearance that Rod walked in the door and waved a magic wand, but the reality is that Rod was coaching under dramatically different circumstances from the get-go.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I can't say anything about Bill's coaching style but I'm always shocked by his story. Bill used to sharpen my skates for $6. That was the Bill Peters I knew personally. Around 15 years later I'm watching my Rangers play vs Carolina and Bill is behind the bench as head coach. Talk about a total shock. I was like what the heck! How did he go from skate sharpener to Carolina's head coach?

 

[Canes]

Interesting, do you think the Canes are a less heavy possibly more skilled version of the 2012-14 LA Kings. I wonder if this style would have worked better in that NHL. Back then I feel like straight up taking shots and crashing the net was more of a common successful style. The Hawks didn't really do that but they were just more talented than everyone.

They’re probably more like the Sharks teams of that era.

 

[JaegerDice]

I'm not sure if the main boards is super appropriate for this but I don't want to get infracted on the Canes board. I'm legit curious, this is no way a slander against Brindamour. But didn't the Canes play a similar high shot volume, high possession style with Bill Peters? Is Rod's game plan any different or are the Canes just more talented right now? Seriously, not criticizing the team or Rod, in fact sort of complimenting them. Would I be correct in saying they play a similar style and it just works better now because they have much better players? Or are there differences in Rod's style that you can only see if you follow the team regularly?

They did.

Well, they tried. The roster when Peters started in 2015 was very different than the roster he ended up with in 2018.

Each year under Peters, their shot attempt volume and share went up, until 2018 when the Canes were the number 1 team in the league in terms of CF%, 3rd in SF%, and 8th in terms of xGF%.

They continued the upward trajectory under Brindamor, and have been a top team in pretty much every underlying stat of late.

Frankly, I think Brindamor is a great coach, but it seems clearTulski had an idea of how the team should play and built up the personnel to play that way. Brinadmor was likely hired because he voiced strong agreement with that vision of how the team should play.

I think the biggest reason Carolina has continued to get better is because their roster continues to amass talent, and the coach is less of a prick about things. Carolina fans can probably point to the Xs and Os changes Brindamor made, particularly the shift to the man+ system in the dzone.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

A lot of people have mentioned various aspects of X’s and O’s, one element Rod’s is he allows more freedom for Defensemen to be aggressive offensively than they were in Peters system and he demands responsibility of a forward to cover.

I don’t think the 18-19 team Rod inherited was more talented than the 17-18 team. People forget they traded away/let go Skinner, Hanifin, Lindholm, Ryan and Rask was injured to start the season. They got back Hamilton and Ferland. And Svech joined the team on the 3rd line. The only NhLr on the roster to start the season with more than a dozen games of NHL center experience was Staal, who also got injured and missed 30 games. The mix of players fit the system better though, the midseason trade for Nino worked out, and Mrazek was outstanding in goal the 2nd half of the season.

All that said, it’s not the X’s and O’s that matter imo. Rod gave the team an identity, set a standard, related to players and is a great motivator. While no coach is loved by every player, a lot of the guys love playing for him.

 

[Voight]

The difference between the two is that Peters started falling out of favor by year 3 because quite frankly, he was a jerk. In his defense he didn't inherent a good situation but he didn't really leave it in a better place. Rod was always liked as an assistant.

Their systems I suppose are about the same but the players listen/respect Rod.

Felt like Brind'Amour was always just the coach in waiting tho. As the former face of the franchise, he was almost destined to be either coach or GM.