Speculation: 2023-2024 General Lightning Discussion - Part 3

[OffBy1]

Hagel was awful in the Toronto series, turnover machine who couldn't finish anything. Funny you bring that up with Duclair but not Hagel.

He was 2nd on the team in goals with 3. He scored our only non-garbage time goal in game 1, had 2 goals in the game we won. Duclair scored 0. Hagel did turn it over a lot, but had less giveaways per 60 than either Point or Kucherov, who had a combined goal total of 2. Hagel was also 2nd on the team in takeaways per 60. So, hardly awful.

 

[Sky04]

He was 2nd on the team in goals with 3. He scored our only non-garbage time goal in game 1, had 2 goals in the game we won. Duclair scored 0. Hagel did turn it over a lot, but had less giveaways per 60 than either Point or Kucherov, who had a combined goal total of 2. Hagel was also 2nd on the team in takeaways per 60. So, hardly awful.

What are you talking about? Hagel was awful in his first series against Toronto when he got here. Obviously he got better which is why writing someone off after 5 games is stupid, so that's the point?

 

[Hockeyville USA]

What are you talking about? Hagel was awful in his first series against Toronto when he got here. Obviously he got better which is why writing someone off after 5 games is stupid, so that's the point?

Sure, but Hagel plays with a tenacity, bite, edge that Duclair just doesn't have.

Hagel was lost offensively when he got to Tampa in major part because of the culture shock, no linemate chemistry, and then just being thrown into a defensive role.

Duclair is perfect for the shinny, track meet style regular season where the run of play is offensive focused & more space exists, but he doesn't fit playoff hockey where he doesn't drive play nor is willing to dig in since the game changes to a physical/defensive style.

 

[bov]

I know people like to pick the low hanging fruit, but dont make shit up. No intensity from Jeannot? He is one of the most phyiscal players in the NHL, doesnt take a shift off. Battled through at least 2 SIGNIFICANT lower body injuries since his acquisition, which clear as day hurt his skating (which wasn't great to begin with). His first quarter or so of this season was noticeably better than when he first arrived last year. Then I would say he tailed off a bit, just prior to getting hurt against Boston. Hopefully he can game some ground back during the summer. Jeannot is likely going nowhere, much to the chagrin of all the couch potatoes who do nothing but go out of their way to trash him.

Perhaps it was lip service, but JBB did seem like he expects to have a much improved Conor Sheary back for next season. That's a tricky injury he dealt with, so it wouldn't shock me to see him bring a little bit more in the fall.

Barring a trade, it seems like we have 11 spots locked in (I'm including Chaffee which may be a stretch) at forward. That leaves a chance for at least one prospect to make an impression, and likely a FA signing.

 

[Stammertime91]

I know people like to pick the low hanging fruit, but dont make shit up. No intensity from Jeannot? He is one of the most phyiscal players in the NHL, doesnt take a shift off. Battled through at least 2 SIGNIFICANT lower body injuries since his acquisition, which clear as day hurt his skating (which wasn't great to begin with). His first quarter or so of this season was noticeably better than when he first arrived last year. Then I would say he tailed off a bit, just prior to getting hurt against Boston. Hopefully he can game some ground back during the summer. Jeannot is likely going nowhere, much to the chagrin of all the couch potatoes who do nothing but go out of their way to trash him.

Perhaps it was lip service, but JBB did seem like he expects to have a much improved Conor Sheary back for next season. That's a tricky injury he dealt with, so it wouldn't shock me to see him bring a little bit more in the fall.

Barring a trade, it seems like we have 11 spots locked in (I'm including Chaffee which may be a stretch) at forward. That leaves a chance for at least one prospect to make an impression, and likely a FA signing.

Is there a link to the two injuries info?

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[Sky04]

69 goals and not even a hart finalist lol

 

[Crunchrulz]

Is there a link to the two injuries info?

If you look back over the many, many comments regarding Jeannot, the injury link is there someplace. About this time last season, the same question was raised and someone with FAR more time on their hands than most of us found it and posted it.

 

[Stammertime91]

69 goals and not even a hart finalist lol

They're gonna respect the hell out of his hand that evening.

 

[Rschmitz]

Mildly shocked Kucherov got enough votes to get to the finalist list.

 

[DMB06]

Is there a link to the two injuries info?

JBB didn't even mention Jeannot when revealing injuries our guys were dealing with. Dude was healthy against Florida, he was just invisible as he always is.

 

[Outl4w]

JBB didn't even mention Jeannot when revealing injuries our guys were dealing with. Dude was healthy against Florida, he was just invisible as he always is.

4Th line plug that only has value when he is hitting people with his fist. He didn't deter florida from cheap shooting kucherov or even make montour pay.

 

[FinnLightning26]

4Th line plug that only has value when he is hitting people with his fist. He didn't deter florida from cheap shooting kucherov or even make montour pay.

Come on. He hit Montour once in game 5. What more could you expect from a guy making 2.6 million and you trade a draft class for, you couch potato.

 

[Outl4w]

Come on. He hit Montour once in game 5. What more could you expect from a guy making 2.6 million and you trade a draft class for, you couch potato.

MAybe throw some fist at his face for trying to ruin Kucherov. You don't need to pay 2.7 million for his production and he isn't not valueable for the lightning if he isn't fighting guys or checking them. WAtson , Essymont, Glendenning, Motte, and Gongalves brought more to the lighting than him for millions less each.

 

[Stammertime91]

JBB didn't even mention Jeannot when revealing injuries our guys were dealing with. Dude was healthy against Florida, he was just invisible as he always is.

@bov Said he had two significant injuries. I want to see the link from where that was revealed. I missed that.

 

[Sky04]

@bov Said he had two significant injuries. I want to see the link from where that was revealed. I missed that.

He meant during his entire time here.. lol anything to excuse the 3 points he had in the final 26 games of the season. A whole 9 point/82 pace to finish the season strong, he hits though I guess.

He's played exactly 82 games with us now 8G, 11A and 19 points for 5 picks. Eyssimont had 25 points this season. The only positive is that players like him will peak around 28-30 like Miller did except he has zero flashes of anything offensively.

 

[DMB06]

He meant during his entire time here.. lol anything to excuse the 3 points he had in the final 26 games of the season. A whole 9 point/82 pace to finish the season strong, he hits though I guess.

He's played exactly 82 games with us now 8G, 11A and 19 points for 5 picks. Eyssimont had 25 points this season. The only positive is that players like him will peak around 28-30 like Miller did except he has zero flashes of anything offensively.

I wonder if he feels the weight of the assets we gave up for him, and that pressure is causing him to force things. I know he has issues, like skating, but pressure can do funny things to people.

 

[Outl4w]

I wonder if he feels the weight of the assets we gave up for him, and that pressure is causing him to force things. I know he has issues, like skating, but pressure can do funny things to people.

All I think he feels is the 2.1 million dollar raise he got for JBB for bringing nothing.

 

[FinnLightning26]

I wonder if he feels the weight of the assets we gave up for him, and that pressure is causing him to force things. I know he has issues, like skating, but pressure can do funny things to people.

Eh, I think it's more like this is who he is and that rookie season was a fluke. He was already trending downward last season with the Preds.

 

[Crunchrulz]

Never mind the number of players who underperformed this season, we will continue to blame the third and fourth liners once again for the organization's failures.

While we are at it, let us throw all of our available Cap space at one player so we can complain again next season about not being able to fill out the supporting roster with players to compliment the handful that have almost 2/3 of the Cap Space tied up in their contracts.

Have we really sunk from a fan base that actually understood the game and how it works to one that has become greedy with our success and will not accept anything less than Championship after Championship? If so, we have become the very fan bases that we frequently poke fun at for their mindless devotion to organizations that have a lot of promise but fail to perform.

Loyalty to your team is one thing but wearing rose colored glasses and failing to see the real issues is taking that to an entirely new depth.

 

[JTBF81]

The path seems pretty clear. Perhaps not easy, but getting rid of all three of Jeannot, Perbix, and Sheary provides the needed space to actually make the team better. Stamkos is unlikely to go anywhere, and that's fine provided the cost is no more than 6 5-7 aav. There will still be enough room to then add both add a dman and a F that will help both areas. After that, yeah, a few bottom 6 spots will require some cheaper contracts in ufa, or a couple of Syracuse players will get more of a chance.

Without losing key pieces(which then of course creates more holes in the lineup that need addressing), Tampa will have one area where they will need cheaper ufa contracts or Crunch players to step in and contribute. The 3rd and/or 4th line is more ideal in this regard imo than having the problem be in the top 6 or top.4 D moving forward. They'll have Paul, Eyssimont, and Glendening back, and if Motte wants to stay for cheap, great. If not then no doubt JBB will find 1-2 ufas in ghe 900k-1 million range, and 1 or 2 Crunch players can be given their chance(Chaffee again, Goncalves is ready, etc).

Whether JBB is willing to make those moves and accept the returns(and what may have to be paid to move Sheary) is another story, but barring losing much more integral pieces like Cirelli, Serg or Cernak, or letting Stamkos walk, this is the most clear path to having the space needed to improve the roster for next season.

 

[Peacefool]

I dont think we will trade anyone of Sheary,Jeannot or Perbix. If I am correct some here posted JBBs words from press meeting where he said something that just approved that Sheary stays.

 

[Crunchrulz]

The path seems pretty clear. Perhaps not easy, but getting rid of all three of Jeannot, Perbix, and Sheary provides the needed space to actually make the team better. Stamkos is unlikely to go anywhere, and that's fine provided the cost is no more than 6 5-7 aav. There will still be enough room to then add both add a dman and a F that will help both areas. After that, yeah, a few bottom 6 spots will require some cheaper contracts in ufa, or a couple of Syracuse players will get more of a chance.

Without losing key pieces(which then of course creates more holes in the lineup that need addressing), Tampa will have one area where they will need cheaper ufa contracts or Crunch players to step in and contribute. The 3rd and/or 4th line is more ideal in this regard imo than having the problem be in the top 6 or top.4 D moving forward. They'll have Paul, Eyssimont, and Glendening back, and if Motte wants to stay for cheap, great. If not then no doubt JBB will find 1-2 ufas in ghe 900k-1 million range, and 1 or 2 Crunch players can be given their chance(Chaffee again, Goncalves is ready, etc).

Whether JBB is willing to make those moves and accept the returns(and what may have to be paid to move Sheary) is another story, but barring losing much more integral pieces like Cirelli, Serg or Cernak, or letting Stamkos walk, this is the most clear path to having the space needed to improve the roster for next season.

Good points.

Should the team fail to get out of the first round again next season, do we have this discussion again or do we finally accept that our core is excellent but by themselves not enough to get us into the playoffs and out of the first round?

Please do not rely on Syracuse players to be able to step up into regular roles with the Lightning, those days of having that kind of depth in the system are gone and are a few years away once we start to rebuild. Even the people who get paid to evaluate farms systems with a neutral view regularly comment about the lack of depth and talent in the system that was used up to have the amazing run we did a few years ago.

We have tried the low cost UFA route and had success as well as failures doing so. That is expected. Ther are reasons other organizations release players into UFA status; be it a failure to mesh with the system, the player's value vs his age, or lack of salary cap space.

 

[JTBF81]

I dont think we will trade anyone of Sheary,Jeannot or Perbix. If I am correct some here posted JBBs words from press meeting where he said something that just approved that Sheary stays.

That would be unfortunate, as aside.from perhaps Perbix (if this last season was just a sophomore slump, based at least in part on the terrible structure in place), none of them are doing anything aside from using valuable cap space that is needed this offseason to try ans keep and acquire players that might be able to help. If JBB is as good of a GM as many think, he'll be able to clear cap space this way and then, hopefully, add.as.needed. if not, no or little quality depth will be able to be added and it's hard.not seeing some of the same problems as this year, especially on defense and with possible depth scoring.

 

[JTBF81]

Good points.

Should the team fail to get out of the first round again next season, do we have this discussion again or do we finally accept that our core is excellent but by themselves not enough to get us into the playoffs and out of the first round?

Please do not rely on Syracuse players to be able to step up into regular roles with the Lightning, those days of having that kind of depth in the system are gone and are a few years away once we start to rebuild. Even the people who get paid to evaluate farms systems with a neutral view regularly comment about the lack of depth and talent in the system that was used up to have the amazing run we did a few years ago.

We have tried the low cost UFA route and had success as well as failures doing so. That is expected. Ther are reasons other organizations release players into UFA status; be it a failure to mesh with the system, the player's value vs his age, or lack of salary cap space.

Not asking for Crunch players/prospects to step in and be all-stars, but I believe a few can provide some depth in the.bottom 6. Whether it's a couple of them or a combo of them and cheaper ufa's, they can't be any worse(and for a cheaper hit cap wise), then dead weight Sheary and Jeannot.

I'm not as worried about the offense as I am the defense, which has seen a ga/g steadily increase over the past three seasons. Of course Vasy has had his issues the past couple of seasons, and perhaps he'll finally be back to form to start next season, but it won't matter if the defense continues leaking as badly as they are(for one reason or another).

While it may mean spending less on a top/middle 6 F, I hope the priority this summer(after Stamkos's situation is resolved) is adding a quality top.4.defensively sound RD. The team badly needs one and luckily, this summer should see a solid number of them hitting ufa. This is also the only way I would consider moving Cirelli, if the assets returned directly resulted in a top 4 RD with term(and in such a way that cap space would be gained such that Tampa could then also replace Cirelli to some degree as well).