YZERMAN: "We’re building a nucleus of young prospects that are going to be part of this team."
- Thread starter Henkka
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Gniwder
Registered User
That lineup won't win a Cup unless MBN and Danielson exceed expectations, and they become the first line. In fact, they'll have a hard time getting into the playoffs unless Cossa/Gus wind up being top 10 goalies.
lilidk
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The Zermanator
In Yzerman We Trust
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Should include Debrincat on that left side at least, he's under contract for most if not all of the next 5 years (don't recall exactly how many). I know he's typically on the right wing but between him, Raymond, MBN, and Mazur, someone's going to have to learn the left side and Debrincat already plays there a lot on the PP.
The only thing I disagree with substantively is that offensive 4th line. I don't really see the benefit. If Buchelnikov is only good enough offensively to grab a 4th line spot, then that's wasted roster spot. Buchelnikov is a top 6 or bust type of prospect, he doesn't bring a whole lot more to the table if he's not scoring. Can probably say the same about Lombardi.
I think it would be best to just have a traditional 4th line, checkers who can play low minutes but be deployed strategically. Think Glendening or Draper types. Kasper and Mazur will hopefully be too good offensively to be considered just a grind/checking line. Best lineup composition would be an offensive top 6, a hybrid checking/scoring 3rd line, and a traditional 4th line.
Otherwise it all looks great.
What's your basis for saying that?
I see an absolutely monster defensive corps, with a monster in net behind them. I don't envy the forwards who will need to score against that. That alone will make them a formidable team. Add in some offensive weapons like Raymond, Larkin, Debrincat, and whichever of the offensive prospects rises to the top, and that's a team that can perform at both ends of the ice. In terms of winning a Cup, there's never any guarantee. But that team stacks up to several recent winners, like St Louis, Washington, Florida, and Vegas.
It seems like your prediction depends on our prospect pool not amounting to anything. You're entitled to your opinion, but the current available evidence suggests your pessimism isn't justified.
jaster
I am become woke, destroyer of ignorance.
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Taking the prospects I expect to make it and plugging them as high into the lineup as I can, I get...
Debrincat - Larkin - Raymond
Plante - Danielson - MBN
Mazur - Kasper - Ras
AlJo - Seider
Ed - ASP
Cossa
Augustine
The 4th-liners and 3rd-pairing can be filled with UFAs/trades and maybe a couple of our C-level prospects who make it. Yes, AlJo on the top pairing, come at me.
Debrincat - Larkin - Raymond
Plante - Danielson - MBN
Mazur - Kasper - Ras
AlJo - Seider
Ed - ASP
Cossa
Augustine
The 4th-liners and 3rd-pairing can be filled with UFAs/trades and maybe a couple of our C-level prospects who make it. Yes, AlJo on the top pairing, come at me.
norrisnick
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Henkka
Registered User
Yeah, how I would do it is Debrincat with that Danielson line, as strong MBN on the other wing.
Rasmussen could be our "killorn" on the 1st line with Larkin+Raymond. In five years he could develop to be a real monster.
Why shoul it be traditional?
It was already at last season, our team was constructed with an offensive 4th line. Ras - Copp - Fischer is the bulldozer grind-line.
2002 Red Wings all-time team had offensive 4th line. Robitaille - Larionov - Holmström. Imo, it's the winning formula, trying to achieve that mold. It's kind of a line, which will be used heavily more, if the team is trailing, go with 3 offensive lines.
If the team is leading, they then will use the top6 and grind-line heavily, to protect the lead. That's how many good teams have been structured in the past.
I think we need to find some offensive skill and another solid defensemen in the trade or free agent market (probably two guys), but I think we have some sold parts to build around.
Retire91
Stevey Y you our Guy
- May 31, 2010
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Yep its been a long wait but that is a solid core to build around. One of yzerman's specialties is getting value for small trades here and there to patch holes. Been saying it for years Yzerman is a long-game incremental GM, a true builder who knows you can't only sign your way to contention especially if you want a window that's open for more than a year or two.
The Zermanator
In Yzerman We Trust
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Definitely lots of potentially exciting line combos with the wingers we have in the system. We've got shooters, passers, big guys, small/fast guys, and physical guys. The coach is going to have a lot of options.
I don't know that you can compare Lombardi and Buchelnikov with Larionov and Robitaille, even the older versions of them. If they are going to be comparable to those guys, why not just plug them into the empty LW positions in the top 6 on your chart? We don't have a dozen HoFers like that 2002 team. Besides, Maltby-Draper-McCarty was the 4th line. That's what I mean by a traditional 4th line. Character and role players who play intense defense and can wear down opposing lines, win draws, kill penalties, etc. Better to have those guys tiring themselves out on the PK than Larkin, Danielson, etc.
Ideal roster makeup for me is concentrating the talent in the top 6, which is relied on to create most of the offensive production. Then you have a versatile 3rd line which can be used in offensive and defensive situations. Then a 4th line that is focused on defense and grinding play. That's a more well-rounded lineup than the 3 offensive lines you suggest, particularly when it comes to playoff hockey.
Debrincat-Larkin-Raymond
X-Danielson-MBN
X-Kasper-Mazur
Rasmussen-Veleno-Fischer
Those two Xs would be filled by 2 of Berggren, Plante, Lombardi, or Buchelnikov (or a FA/trade acquisition if 3 or more of those guys don't pan out. That's a well constructed roster to me for both the regular season and playoffs. Lines 1 and 2 provide most of the offensive production and those players get the PP minutes. Line 3 is very versatile and can be deployed to score against other teams' 3rd lines, or they can be matched against the other team's top line to neutralize them while our own top line feasts against their lower lines, etc. Then you have those 4th line guys to do the unglamorous minutes, to forecheck hard and wear down the other team, to PK, etc.
Highly doubt there aren't any free agent signings and the team is made of complete Yzerman draft picks aside a few
lilidk
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Henkka
Registered User
Yeah, it never goes that way. But we can project that youth and trades are probably based on same kind of players, when youth goes out and more prime player comes in.
We just don't know who they are, so we have to project our kids on those spots.
Henkka
Registered User
In the year of 2029:
Ras - Larkin - Raymond
Cat - Danielson - MBN
Söder - Kasp - Mazur
Bergg - Lomb - Buchelnikov
Plante - Savage - Kiiskinen
Ras - Larkin - Raymond
Cat - Danielson - MBN
Söder - Kasp - Mazur
Bergg - Lomb - Buchelnikov
Plante - Savage - Kiiskinen
jaster
I am become woke, destroyer of ignorance.
- Jun 8, 2007
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Yes, long-term I have Ed clearly above AlJo. I just like the balancing of these pairs. I’d still expect Ed to have more TOI and a bigger role than AlJo in this scenario.
AlwaysSunnyInDetroit
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- Oct 1, 2021
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i think that mazur - kasper - berggren have good chemistry in gr. i think they'd make a great third line in detroit
debrincat - larkin - raymond
buchelnikov/plante - danielson - mbn
mazur - kasper - berggren
rasmussen - savage - soderblom
johansson - seider
edvinsson - asp
wallinder/buium - tuomisto/johansson
cossa
augustine
Yup - the unfortunate reality is we’re likely going ‘Minnesota Mediocrity’ unless a handful more turn out better than expected.
Snuggs
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- Jun 24, 2018
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I hope you are wrong, but I too feel this same way. Building towards mediocrity unless something falls right into Yzerman's lap through the draft.
By the time it's realized it might be 2028, 2029? Idk long-time.
Sounds like he is building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude.
TheOtherOne
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- Jan 2, 2010
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lol that's just how the nhl works. You don't win Cups if you don't have players turn out better than expected.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
A team of two 2nd lines and two 3rd lines is a really good team in the NHL, people need to remember that. There's a reason Vegas was able to compete right away, and it's not because they were full of top line superstars.
As of right now though, our young nucleus is pretty much Seider and Raymond. I would hope after 2024-25 we can pencil Edvinsson and another forward in there with confidence.
As of right now though, our young nucleus is pretty much Seider and Raymond. I would hope after 2024-25 we can pencil Edvinsson and another forward in there with confidence.
Henkka
Registered User
If I compare this team to 2012-13 Tampa, Rasmussen is same aged and having equal production as same aged Killorn then.
Important part ot Lightnings' nucleus.
Hedman & Stamkos were also same aged then as Seider & Raymond now.
Those 3 guys were Tampa's only regular guys playing full games on that season, who were part of the winning nucleus in the future. All rest of the guys were at Syracuse. Red Wings current situation seems like carbon copy.
