Player Discussion Youth Movement

[THOR77]

New coach same BS. David Quinn needs to start coaching like a pro or we are f***. We need to give Kaapo a fair shot 9 to 12 min is not enough. With Kreider playing 17 to 20 min and playing like a fourth line rookie isn't fair. We should give Chytil and Kravtzov a shot and sit out Haley and Smith. We are not winning the cup this year but let us get ready for the next 2,3 years. We have something good coming let's make it Great

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[Shesterkybomb]

New coach same BS. David Quinn needs to start coaching like a pro or we are ****. We need to give Kaapo a fair shot 9 to 12 min is not enough. With Kreider playing 17 to 20 min and playing like a fourth line rookie isn't fair. We should give Chytil and Kravtzov a shot and sit out Haley and Smith. We are not winning the cup this year but let us get ready for the next 2,3 years. We have something good coming let's make it Great

None of those players is ready to do what you want them to do and forcing them into spots they cant handle only weakens their spirit. It would be great if they could but they cant right now and the team is doing what they feel is best for them.

 

[AntNYR]

New coach same BS. David Quinn needs to start coaching like a pro or we are ****. We need to give Kaapo a fair shot 9 to 12 min is not enough. With Kreider playing 17 to 20 min and playing like a fourth line rookie isn't fair. We should give Chytil and Kravtzov a shot and sit out Haley and Smith. We are not winning the cup this year but let us get ready for the next 2,3 years. We have something good coming let's make it Great

Kakko is being given a fair treatment. For one Kakko has only played your 9-12 minutes in two games. He actually averages over 14 and has played over 15-16 minutes four times in eight games. Many former high picks and even current stars averaged less in their first full seasons. Coaches often ease players into NHL, so comparing Kakko's early ice time to other players full first seasons is questionable at best, yet Kakko still does OK in those comparisons. Crosby for example averaged ~18 minutes in his first eight NHL games, yet finished the season averaging over 20 per game. Kakko's ice time will almost surely go up during the season, it almost always does with prospects that stay up the whole year.

I like Chytil's treatment. He did not play well last year, or in camp but seems to working through the disappointment and taking a leading offensive role in the AHL. Let him simmer there for a while and get used to big minutes.

I'm disappointed that Kravtsov didn't react like Chytil but I don't know enough of what happened to place blame. KHL is a good league, supposedly his new coach is a demanding one and he gets to play in an environment he's comfortable in so things should be good for him.

Now Lias is another matter. I don't understand his treatment and feel he should get more minutes. Either in the NHL or in AHL. We can always plug the 4th line hole with a random nobody.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

This is literally the topic of discussion in the Quinn, Kakko, Andersson, Kravtsov, Kravtsov back to Russia, the roster building thread, and probably more I’m not thinking of right now.

 

[Irishguy42]

Do we need another thread of people shitting on Quinn? Really? Every thread has this.

 

[THOR77]

Kakko is being given a fair treatment. For one Kakko has only played your 9-12 minutes in two games. He averages over 14 and has played over 15-16 minutes four times in eight games. Many former high picks and even current stars averaged less in their first full seasons. Coaches often ease players into NHL, so comparing Kakko's early ice time to other player's full first seasons is questionable at best, yet Kakko still does OK in those comparisons. Crosby, for example, averaged ~18 minutes in his first eight NHL games, yet finished the season averaging over 20 per game. Kakko's ice time will almost surely go up during the season, it almost always does with prospects that stay up the whole year.

I like Chytil's treatment. He did not play well last year, or in camp but seems to work through the disappointment and taking a leading offensive role in the AHL. Let him simmer there for a while and get used to big minutes.

I'm disappointed that Kravtsov didn't react like Chytil but I don't know enough of what happened to place blame. KHL is a good league, supposedly his new coach is a demanding one and he gets to play in an environment he's comfortable in so things should be good for him.

Now Lias is another matter. I don't understand his treatment and feel he should get more minutes. Either in the NHL or AHL. We can always plug the 4th line hole with a random nobody.

Ok 2 game 9 to 12 min but y is Kreider getting so much ice time. Kreider suck right now will turn it around but right now making any line he's on below average. Put Zibby with Kakko and Lemieux on the first line. Love the way Lemieux play, Kreider should take some note. As of right now I would have Kreider on the 3rd line with Howden and fast. And for the love of god plz give Lias someone to play with. Lias is playing very good hockey this year. Get Kreider off 1st pp and put Kakko why have Kreider following Mika in front of the net make zero sense. One last thing why the hell would you bench Kaapo in the 3rd when the score is 5 to 2 cause of a stupid D mistake let him learn from them. Coach give him a shift with 1.23 left in the 3rd with the 4th line that was major BS

 

[aufheben]

Kakko literally started his NHL career on a 2nd line and PP. No AHL. No 4th line.

 

[Hire Sather]

Instead of blaming the coaching staff maybe admit that we youth has been a disappointment in the early going

 

[True Blue]

This is literally the topic of discussion in the Quinn, Kakko, Andersson, Kravtsov, Kravtsov back to Russia, the roster building thread, and probably more I’m not thinking of right now.

This board has officially gone insane.

It is amazing to me that most of these people have time to come on a message board and are not currently employed by various NHL franchises.

 

[True Blue]

Instead of blaming the coaching staff maybe admit that we youth has been a disappointment in the early going

Or that players take time to develop.

The problem is that people around here conviced themselves that Kakko is an instant superstar and that the young players are all 100% ready to take on major roles. As such, this team is a Cup contender. The same people ignored arguments when told that young players need development time and that there was a solid chance that this team was actually going to be worse or the same as last year. So now, it is time to find scapegoats for the reasons of why their pie in the sky expectations are not coming to fruition.

 

[True Blue]

Do we need another thread of people ****ting on Quinn? Really? Every thread has this.

It is official. All of the hockey geniuses are here and Quinn, JG & Gorton are all morons.

The thing that these posters miss is if they are not down with what Quinn is doing, then they are not down with Gorton's vision or JD's execution of the plan.

 

[JCProdigy]

My brain to me as I go to open this thread...

 

[True Blue]

My brain to me as I go to open this thread...

Only funny because it is so true

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Ok 2 game 9 to 12 min but y is Kreider getting so much ice time. Kreider suck right now will turn it around but right now making any line he's on below average. Put Zibby with Kakko and Lemieux on the first line. Love the way Lemieux play, Kreider should take some note. As of right now I would have Kreider on the 3rd line with Howden and fast. And for the love of god plz give Lias someone to play with. Lias is playing very good hockey this year. Get Kreider off 1st pp and put Kakko why have Kreider following Mika in front of the net make zero sense. One last thing why the hell would you bench Kaapo in the 3rd when the score is 5 to 2 cause of a stupid D mistake let him learn from them. Coach give him a shift with 1.23 left in the 3rd with the 4th line that was major BS

Kreider is a vet and we are trying to maximize his trade value because he isnt going to be here next year. If he doesnt get top minutes we will be getting a 3rd rounder for him.

 

[SA16]

Kreider is a vet and we are trying to maximize his trade value because he isnt going to be here next year. If he doesnt get top minutes we will be getting a 3rd rounder for him.

The reason Kreider is getting top minutes is because he is the second best wing on the team. Not because they are trying to maximize his trade value.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

The reason Kreider is getting top minutes is because he is the second best wing on the team. Not because they are trying to maximize his trade value.

Our 2nd best winger Is being outscored by Fast, Buch, Strome, as well as DeAngelo and Trouba...

Our 2nd best wing has 1 more point than Smith and Howden and as many points as Skjei..

Our 2nd best wing should start playing like our 2nd best wing.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm all for a coach-shitting thread but this title is misleading.

 

[SA16]

Our 2nd best winger Is being outscored by Fast, Buch, Strome, as well as DeAngelo and Trouba...

Our 2nd best wing has 1 more point than Smith and Howden and as many points as Skjei..

Our 2nd best wing should start playing like our 2nd best wing.

Yes this is why we do not make declarations in small sample sizes.

He has 4 points in 8 games. Over the last 3 years he averages 5.3 points per 8 games. Hardly unreasonable.

This is the problem with Kreider/Buch. Their expectations are out of hand. Kreider is never going to "break out" and become that dominant 30-30 threat or better. He's already 28 and is what he is. A good play driving forward who will put up around 50 points. Buchnevich is not going to break out and be a 70+ point first line wing. He's not that skilled.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

There is no way to get anywhere in this discussion.
Players aren't good enough as of now, to have any impact. So we blame the coach.
Only thing we could blame DQ for is, if in like 7 years our youth movement busts. Only then.
As of now the team can't do any better and shouldn't. (in the light of the rebuild)
So ultimately, we only want to blame something on somebody. That's all this is.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Our 2nd best winger Is being outscored by Fast, Buch, Strome, as well as DeAngelo and Trouba...

Our 2nd best wing has 1 more point than Smith and Howden and as many points as Skjei..

Our 2nd best wing should start playing like our 2nd best wing.

That never happens in an 8 game span.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

So many fresh, new takes.

 

[THOR77]

Instead of blaming the coaching staff maybe admit that we youth has been a disappointment in the early going

How can you say the youth been a disappointment when they really didn't get a fair chance.Are you watching the game right now 2nd periode Kaapo hasn't had 2 shift with the same guys. I hope they could bench Kreider for the rest of the game cause this is getting old. It f*** up over f*** up. I hope they trade him at this point hard to watch.

 

[Cassano]

Instead of blaming the coaching staff maybe admit that we youth has been a disappointment in the early going

This. The youth are that great. Too high expectations for them.

This team probably needs 4-5 years, unless they get lucky with picks.

 

[bernmeister]

Yes this is why we do not make declarations in small sample sizes.

He has 4 points in 8 games. Over the last 3 years he averages 5.3 points per 8 games. Hardly unreasonable.

This is the problem with Kreider/Buch. Their expectations are out of hand. Kreider is never going to "break out" and become that dominant 30-30 threat or better. He's already 28 and is what he is. A good play driving forward who will put up around 50 points. Buchnevich is not going to break out and be a 70+ point first line wing. He's not that skilled.

Buch I agree w/you. not even close to 70 pts.
CK was most of the way there first half last season, then cooled. He does well w/Zib. Need correct third linemate. Have written exhaustively how there is zero to lose about matching
possession driver + facilitator + finisher by putting righty shot Zib at RW [which he can handle w/success] and go for correct pivot. Chytil could be that pivot, but his potential offense should upgrade 3rd line instead. I said Boo, just try it, nothing to lose. People don't listen and we are where we are. Is it slam dunk I would be right? No. But would it hurt to give legit try? No.

The real problem is we are still suffering from the effin win now crowd who had to have EStaal and BSmith. Also should have flipped Namest immediately when there was hype of him possibly producing like he did w/Stamkos; instead we signed him.

We need to trade the excess vets.
These are guys we are not extending contract wise.
Also, we need to move way ahead on the exp draft, 'cause it will be harder to move players in a yr + as teams finalize getting ready to deal w/it which = less trade flexibility league wide.

HCDQ is okay enuf for now and then some, no reason to think he's suddenly lost it --- with one exception. While the excess roster adding excess mins does not help, both Q and his predecessor have been guilty of WAY too much line changes. I get the open mindedness of experimentation. I would be a hypocrite to call for the Nieves experiment and then be close minded about other options.

However, we need to get to bottom line core, and then use matchups that best work. Doesn't matter if Zib is a 1C. If we are keeping an extended Kreider b'c that is more profitable than to dump him, and Kreider = 2LW b'c Panarin and Kakko are first line, then use Zib on 2nd line.
Krav WILL be our 1C.
I don't give a rat's ass how you handle it on center ice transition and offense, but on defense, to ensure everyone goes to their natural strong hand, play that W. Thus
LW Kakko - C Krav - RW Panarin
LW Kreider - C Nieves - Zib

Trade Strome, Buch, possibly Andersson if enuf for him.
Geo. a strategic add
Skjei close to market for cap relief
DeAngelo at a profit.

 

[Hire Sather]

Or that players take time to develop.

The problem is that people around here conviced themselves that Kakko is an instant superstar and that the young players are all 100% ready to take on major roles. As such, this team is a Cup contender. The same people ignored arguments when told that young players need development time and that there was a solid chance that this team was actually going to be worse or the same as last year. So now, it is time to find scapegoats for the reasons of why their pie in the sky expectations are not coming to fruition.

Kakko has 2 points in 9 games and is barely noticable.

Krav went back to KHL.

Chytil could't make the team.

Lias is struggling to be a bottom 6 forward after being taken in the first round 2 years ago.

It's just a dissapointment. They don't need to be dominating but it to get pretty much nothing out of those 4 players so far is upsetting. It doesn't mean they're busts, but it has not been an ideal start.