Your ideal Defense pairings

[ACC1224]

Holl - 20:22/per, Liljegren - 15:17/per. Holl has played in three more games.

Perhaps that's part of the issue. Too much ice for Muzzin/Holl?

 

[kb]

Perhaps that's part of the issue. Too much ice for Muzzin/Holl?

What is the issue you are trying to solve, exactly?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Team is rolling along pretty well but there still seems to be some discussion/concerns on the pairings and who sits.

I've excluded Rielly/Brodie as that seems set in stone and playing well.

If there is a setup overlooked, post it and I'll add it to the options.

Great post .. i like Lily with Muzzy and Sandin with Dermy .. and trade Holl for a $1M AAV vet D+pick to save $1M on CAP to add later

 

[Buds17]

Perhaps that's part of the issue. Too much ice for Muzzin/Holl?

Running a big four on the blueline seems to be pretty standard. "Too much" is subjective depending upon one's feelings about the team overall and the blueline in general. I'm personally more than fine with it all right now.

 

[ACC1224]

Running a big four on the blueline seems to be pretty standard. "Too much" is subjective depending upon one's feelings about the team overall and the blueline in general. I'm personally more than fine with it all right now.

Yeah, things are going well, no doubt. I'd just like to see the team be proactive here as I foresee this being an issue down the road.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Hes at the age that once you loose that edge it's gone. I'd play him the same amount he would need to play in the playoffs. Upping the minutes last minutes on the aging body that's played 75 to 82 games isn't always easy to do either.

Hopefully with the emergence of the rooks, we won't need him to play so many minutes in the playoffs.

 

[Dekes For Days]

What is the issue you are trying to solve, exactly?

Pretty obviously, that things are going too well.

 

[Knies iT]

"What do people see in Dermott?"

RE Dermott vs. Holl - the decision boils down to the following:

• Trade Holl for assets, keep Dermott for 1.5 years, either re-sign or trade for assets (controlled RFA expiry)
• Trade Dermott for slightly less assets (rumoured to have less league wide value), keep Holl for 1.5 years, lose him for nothing (UFA expiry)

The better move from an asset management POV is to sell Holl and bet on the younger, cheaper Dermott's upside.

 

[zeke]

"What do people see in Dermott?"

RE Dermott vs. Holl - the decision boils down to the following:

• Trade Holl for assets, keep Dermott for 1.5 years, either re-sign or trade for assets (controlled RFA expiry)
• Trade Dermott for slightly less assets (rumoured to have less league wide value), keep Holl for 1.5 years, lose him for nothing (UFA expiry)

The better move from an asset management POV is to sell Holl and bet on the younger, cheaper Dermott's upside.

Unless a team sees real value in Dermott in a trade so we can upgrade somewhere else.

 

[Kingstonian1984]

I think the Holl/Muzzin experiment needs to come to an end.... Muzzin needs to play with a guy who is fast and can handle the puck. I'd be interested in a Lilijgren/Muzzin pairing, Holl? I thnk they would balance each other out IMO. Holl I like as a 7D, or if you can find someone to take him on for a late pick, that works as well.

 

[Teeder Keon]

With the good possibility of Bunting becoming a perfect match for AM and MM on that line , we are getting closer to a top 3 team in the league for realsies …
I used to say we need to top flight left wingers
But now I think we are One top 6 LWer and a true 1a right side D man away from the promised land

therefore

the 3M line
MB AM MM
Top end left winger JT WN
3K line
AK DK OK
Mik Spezz Simmer

extras
Clifford
Any other Ahl prone prospect

Mo top end RD
Muzz TJ
Sandin Lilly
Dermott

 

[kb]

With the good possibility of Bunting becoming a perfect match for AM and MM on that line , we are getting closer to a top 3 team in the league for realsies …
I used to say we need to top flight left wingers
But now I think we are One top 6 LWer and a true 1a right side D man away from the promised land

therefore

the 3M line
MB AM MM
Top end left winger JT WN
3K line
AK DK OK
Mik Spezz Simmer

extras
Clifford
Any other Ahl prone prospect

Mo top end RD
Muzz TJ
Sandin Lilly
Dermott

I really don't think we are 2 very big ticket pieces away. How can it fit under the cap?

No perfect teams, but this one is close....

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I miss Bogosian.

Our third pair has been better without him. I like the guy but we needed to get the kids in the lineup and they've been great so far.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I really don't think we are 2 very big ticket pieces away. How can it fit under the cap?

No perfect teams, but this one is close....

I also like this team as it is and I can think of several reasons for wanting NOT to spend on rentals this season:

- we've spent so much on rentals in the past and have nothing to show for it, Foligno especially proved to be a terrible move
- rentals rarely pay off
- I think rentals are a bad idea in general and they only make sense when your window is closing, certainly not when your top players are in their prime
- like you said, this team is close to perfect, at least in terms of having good balance and no glaring weaknesses

Dubas is on record as not liking rentals, why he got Foligno is beyond me but hopefully he has learned his lesson. A cheap rental is fine, spending a 1st round pick when our best core players are just entering their prime however, that seems like a terrible idea. Dubas generally makes good trades and if he thinks we should make a move then I trust him, it just better not be an expensive rental piece.

Our third pair has been better without him. I like the guy but we needed to get the kids in the lineup and they've been great so far.

You're right. My thought was a replacement for Holl but ... thinking of Bogosian in those terms wasn't my finest moment, let's put it that way.

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

I know this subject has been exhausted but I would love if the Leafs could trade for Josh Manson. He is literally the perfect acquisition for this team. Defensively responsible, can skate, throw a hit, make a pass, and jump into the play offensively. Think a bigger, stronger version of Dermott that can actually do something useful in the offensive zone, and is proven against the league's best

 

[Mr_Fun]

I don't think Holl's a bad player, he's just someone who can't keep up with Toronto's style of play. Hopefully another GM sees that and is able to give some value back for him.

I don't disagree that he's the weakest link, but I also don't think he's earned the right to be a whipping boy, either. That said, there have definitely been a few stretches where Holl & Muzzin look like an incarnation of Laurel & Hardy back there.

 

[Gabriel426]

Honestly, I would try Reilly with Lilly, in games where the Leafs have it under control and see how they play.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Muzzin Durzi
Rielly Brodie
Sandin Liljegren
Dermott Holl

 

[kb]

I know this subject has been exhausted but I would love if the Leafs could trade for Josh Manson. He is literally the perfect acquisition for this team. Defensively responsible, can skate, throw a hit, make a pass, and jump into the play offensively. Think a bigger, stronger version of Dermott that can actually do something useful in the offensive zone, and is proven against the league's best

2016 called. They want their scouting report back.

 

[Griffin76]

Leafs win when Dermott sits. Leafs win when Holl sits. Leafs win when Liljegren sits. Leafs would when if Sandin sits. Leafs would also win if Muzzin sits. Point is rotate these guys because Muzzin needs to get a couple of small breaks throughout the season or he will be toast come playoff time. Plenty of man games available for 5 guys in 4 spots with Muzzin playing the most and Holl (preferably) or Dermott playing the least.

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

2016 called. They want their scouting report back.

Manson is still a top 4 d-man, would instantly make this team much better.
Reilly-Brodie
Muzzin-Manson
is a Stanley Cup caliber top 4

 

[jaric1862]

Preferably it would be

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Deadline pick up
Sandin-Holl

 

[Brobust]

What I want to see next season from the leafs:

Morgan Rielly ($7.5M) - TJ Brodie ($5M)
Rasmus Sandin ($3.5M max) - Josh Manson ($5.5M)
Mark Giordano ($3M) - Timothy Liljegren ($1.5 max)

They'd have to trade Muzzin, Holl, Dermott, Ritchie and probably two of Kerfoot/Kase/Mrazek to make this happen along with a Campbell extension.

 

[zeke]

What I want to see next season from the leafs:

Morgan Rielly ($7.5M) - TJ Brodie ($5M)
Rasmus Sandin ($3.5M max) - Josh Manson ($5.5M)
Mark Giordano ($3M) - Timothy Liljegren ($1.5 max)

They'd have to trade Muzzin, Holl, Dermott, Ritchie and probably two of Kerfoot/Kase/Mrazek to make this happen along with a Campbell extension.

Muzzin is much better than Manson or Giordano.

 

[Brobust]

Muzzin is much better than Manson or Giordano.

My logic behind targeting both players is getting a guy to introduce and acclimate both Sandin and Liljegren to tougher matchups.

Muzzin can't play the right so he can't play with Sandin and having a $5.6M player on the 3rd pair is a luxury they can't afford.