Your Expectations of Giguere after 2003

[GMR]

What did you expect from Giguere after the 2003 playoffs? Did you expect him to become one of the league's best goalies? Or did you think it was just a hot playoff run and nothing more?

He turned 26 during those playoffs so it's not like he just burst onto the scene. He had decent career and did win the Cup in 2007. His playoff OT record is probably the best in hockey history. I think he was 11-1 in 2003 and 2007.

However, his best Vezina finish was 4th in 2008. I think he only played in one All Star game. I remember him having inconsistent seasons and battling for his starting job with Bryzgalov and Hiller. It's fair to say his career didn't take off after 2003.

 

[Asheville]

Very intelligent goalie who maximized his non-existent athleticism by playing the percentages. Ice water ran through his veins. Wore absurd equipment. His father's passing and his son being born with 1 eye ended his focus on being a starter.

 

[GMR]

Very intelligent goalie who maximized his non-existent athleticism by playing the percentages. Ice water ran through his veins. Wore absurd equipment. His father's passing and his son being born with 1 eye ended his focus on being a starter.

That's why I personally expected more out of him. He had great positioning and wore absurd equipment, as you put it. I don't know if teams figured him out or if he just couldn't stay healthy, consistent, etc.

I didn't know that about his father and son, though.

 

[Asheville]

That's why I personally expected more out of him. He had great positioning and wore absurd equipment, as you put it. I don't know if teams figured him out or if he just couldn't stay healthy, consistent, etc.

I didn't know that about his father and son, though.

His groin constantly went to shit. His athleticism and physique didn't lend themselves to a long career. I'm actually amazed that he lasted as long as he did and accomplished what he did. Goes home with a 1 Cup and 1 Smythe in separate trips (only such case among goalies [or any position?] in history), which many HHOFers would kill for.

 

[bobholly39]

What did you expect from Giguere after the 2003 playoffs? Did you expect him to become one of the league's best goalies? Or did you think it was just a hot playoff run and nothing more?

He turned 26 during those playoffs so it's not like he just burst onto the scene. He had decent career and did win the Cup in 2007. His playoff OT record is probably the best in hockey history. I think he was 11-1 in 2003 and 2007.

However, his best Vezina finish was 4th in 2008. I think he only played in one All Star game. I remember him having inconsistent seasons and battling for his starting job with Bryzgalov and Hiller. It's fair to say his career didn't take off after 2003.

Bolded is what i thought. But - almost an "all-time great run" by a goalie, so not trying to diminish it. It was ridiculously impressive. But no - i didn't necessarily expect him to start winning/sweeping Vezinas.

 

[quoipourquoi]

It's fair to say his career didn't take off after 2003.

In the words of Quentin Tarantino, I reject your hypothesis.

Jean-Sebastien Giguere had a condition that made it incredibly difficult for him to stay hydrated (so he would lose about a dozen pounds of water weight every game) - which in an era of high-GP goaltenders was problematic for anyone hoping to make serious challenges to the Vezina and All-Star Teams. So even when Giguere was a statistically comparable goaltender, if another goaltender is playing 10-15 more games, voters tended to ignore Giguere.

[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD][/TD]
[TD]Giguere[/TD][TD]1st Team[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2002[/TD][TD].920[/TD][TD].925[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2003[/TD][TD].920[/TD][TD].914[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2004[/TD][TD].914[/TD][TD].917[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2006[/TD][TD].911[/TD][TD].923[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2007[/TD][TD].918[/TD][TD].922[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2008[/TD][TD].922[/TD][TD].910[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]

His career was more or less derailed by the death of his father, as he was a .913 goaltender in the first 22 games of 2008-09, and a .886 goaltender in the 24 games following his father’s passing.

It was only then that Jonas Hiller was able to take his role as Anaheim’s starter. Ilya Bryzgalov never truly challenged for Giguere’s job, coming into the 2006 playoffs when Giguere was injured and only holding the spot until his hot streak ended (.967 in rounds 1 and 2), with Giguere taking back over midway through the Western Conference Finals.

Giguere would likely have been held in higher regard in a tandem era when his GP totals would be less disqualifying for trophy support.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

His groin constantly went to ****. His athleticism and physique didn't lend themselves to a long career. I'm actually amazed that he lasted as long as he did and accomplished what he did. Goes home with a 1 Cup and 1 Smythe in separate (only such case among goalies [or any position?] in history), which many HHOFers would kill for.

glenn hall did it. for all players, reggie the rifle did too.

 

[Asheville]

glenn hall did it. for all players, reggie the rifle did too.

In other words, one of an unbelievably few

 

[Michael Farkas]

I thought had the time he was a very average goalie...positioning and reads were pretty good, puck tracking, rebound control, lateral movement, shuffle ability, glove, blocker, puck play, all below the mark...my expectation was that a better goalie would come along and take his job at some point (Bryzgalov did) and that'd be that...

The 2003 run, while epic for certain reasons, is also one of the most unsportsmanlike events from my perspective and my perspective alone that I've seen in hockey in my lifetime...whether his equipment was or was not in the rules is a matter for the courts, I think what he did was disrespectful to the game and I don't have a lot of time for it...

 

[GMR]

I thought had the time he was a very average goalie...positioning and reads were pretty good, puck tracking, rebound control, lateral movement, shuffle ability, glove, blocker, puck play, all below the mark...my expectation was that a better goalie would come along and take his job at some point (Bryzgalov did) and that'd be that...

The 2003 run, while epic for certain reasons, is also one of the most unsportsmanlike events from my perspective and my perspective alone that I've seen in hockey in my lifetime...whether his equipment was or was not in the rules is a matter for the courts, I think what he did was disrespectful to the game and I don't have a lot of time for it...

Are you talking about the oversized equipment or something else?

 

[Voight]

Gigure in 2003, Tim Thomas in 2011 and J Quick in 2012 are the best goalie cup runs since 2000 IMO.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Are you talking about the oversized equipment or something else?

Yes, the equipment.

Also, I don't like that he drinks through a straw...but I found out later that was a medicinal need of some sort...but it did bother me at the time haha

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I thought had the time he was a very average goalie...positioning and reads were pretty good, puck tracking, rebound control, lateral movement, shuffle ability, glove, blocker, puck play, all below the mark...my expectation was that a better goalie would come along and take his job at some point (Bryzgalov did) and that'd be that...

The 2003 run, while epic for certain reasons, is also one of the most unsportsmanlike events from my perspective and my perspective alone that I've seen in hockey in my lifetime...whether his equipment was or was not in the rules is a matter for the courts, I think what he did was disrespectful to the game and I don't have a lot of time for it...

i’m curious, if all of his skills were so bad, why was he drafted so high? i remember he was the clear top goalie in the draft, ahead of biron.

i don’t have your technical expertise but i also seem to remember prospect giguere being talked about as a guy with a lot of raw skill. could it be that wearing basically mattresses on his body limited his ability to do all the non-blocking aspects of goaltending?

anyway my memory of 2003 giguere is he probably should have gotten some hart love during that regular season, and definitely more vezina attention. unless we assume that a monkey in those pads could have been coached to excel in that system, he dragged that team to the playoffs. i also remember him just looking automatic in the net. again, i don’t have the knowhow to really dissect goaltending technique but he looked like he always was doing exactly what he needed to be doing and had an aura of invincibility to him. i’m talking pre-detroit series even. he had this four shutouts in five game stretch midseason that really announced, hey this guy has finally arrived and he proceeded to kill it down the stretch.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Quebec goaltending was hot. The Allaires were hot. Jim Rutherford a former goalie was at the helm and probably thought this was the future (Roy, Brodeur, Potvin, all right in a row were pretty well respected in 1995)...Biron had surpassed Giguere as the year went on, but Giguere beat Biron in a playoff series that gave some teams pause. I think the majority probably had Biron over Giguere, but it just takes one team to like a guy...

Pre-draft stuff is a game of telephone sometimes, ya know? Even in the scouting community. Malkin was a two-way threat, Yakupov was Ovechkin-lite, Cody Hodgson was a safe two-way player with speed to burn, blah blah blah...Giguere had the technique, Biron had the raw potential...

But Giguere struggled because of his lack of skill...quickly Hartford tired of him and traded him for Trevor Kidd...Calgary soured on him and turned to old journeymen Braithwaite and Kidd and then used a top 10 pick on a different goalie in 2000...and unloaded Giguere for a mid-2nd...

Then in the cushy defensive confines of Anaheim, Giguere came to fruition...same with Martin Gerber and Ilya Bryzgalov...it was really just right place, right time for a defensive team and a big padded goaltender...he didn't allow a lot through him (asterisk), but other than that, there wasn't a lot to write home about...

After his job was usurped by Bryz in Anaheim, he failed to really net a starting job again...

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

Im a little biased because one of only two NHL games Ive seen live was... um, not his best:



I think the general consensus here is right, he was a good NHL starter, but not as perfectly rounded as most goalie prospects are now, which is reasonable given how long ago his development was.

 

[GrkFlyersFan]

I think if the conditions of the DPE persisted, he would've stayed closer to his '03 level. As it was, he still had a career to be proud of. His time as Toronto starter didn't work out, but he got the Cup he deserved in '03 in '07 behind a better team. He did about what I expected. Nobody could be what he was in the '03 playoffs consistently.

 

[kaiser matias]

In other words, one of an unbelievably few

Crozier in 1966, Hextall in 1987 are the other goalies to lose the Cup but win the Smythe. So yes, not common at all.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Crozier in 1966, Hextall in 1987 are the other goalies to lose the Cup but win the Smythe. So yes, not common at all.

Glenn Hall in '68 as well.

 

[Asheville]

Crozier in 1966, Hextall in 1987 are the other goalies to lose the Cup but win the Smythe. So yes, not common at all.

Neither qualifies, because neither won just one Cup as a starter on a separate occasion.

 

[Asheville]

In the words of Quentin Tarantino, I reject your hypothesis.

Jean-Sebastien Giguere had a condition that made it incredibly difficult for him to stay hydrated (so he would lose about a dozen pounds of water weight every game) - which in an era of high-GP goaltenders was problematic for anyone hoping to make serious challenges to the Vezina and All-Star Teams. So even when Giguere was a statistically comparable goaltender, if another goaltender is playing 10-15 more games, voters tended to ignore Giguere.

[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD][/TD]
[TD]Giguere[/TD][TD]1st Team[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2002[/TD][TD].920[/TD][TD].925[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2003[/TD][TD].920[/TD][TD].914[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2004[/TD][TD].914[/TD][TD].917[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2006[/TD][TD].911[/TD][TD].923[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2007[/TD][TD].918[/TD][TD].922[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2008[/TD][TD].922[/TD][TD].910[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
His career was more or less derailed by the death of his father, as he was a .913 goaltender in the first 22 games of 2008-09, and a .886 goaltender in the 24 games following his father’s passing.

It was only then that Jonas Hiller was able to take his role as Anaheim’s starter. Ilya Bryzgalov never truly challenged for Giguere’s job, coming into the 2006 playoffs when Giguere was injured and only holding the spot until his hot streak ended (.967 in rounds 1 and 2), with Giguere taking back over midway through the Western Conference Finals.

Giguere would likely have been held in higher regard in a tandem era when his GP totals would be less disqualifying for trophy support.

Lol fake news. Giguere finished off the Minnesota series and proceeded to play every game against Vancouver, Detroit and Ottawa after that.

 

[Asheville]

Yes, the equipment.

Lol then you must also have loads of respect for Lundqvist and Fleury

 

[Michael Farkas]

Fleury...?

 

[Asheville]

Fleury...?

His chest protector/shoulder rise has been as laughable as Gigueres ever was. And no comment on the Swedish Blimp?

 

[Michael Farkas]

A) You're wrong on Fleury. That's all.
B) Not excusing Lundqvist, but it's clearly not to the same level as Giguere. Not being able to separate the two (the three? Somehow) is not on me to try to untangle. It's just user error.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Lol fake news. Giguere finished off the Minnesota series and proceeded to play every game against Vancouver, Detroit and Ottawa after that.

2006 and 2007 are different playoffs. Bryzgalov played much of the 2006 playoffs (part of Calgary, all of Colorado, some of Edmonton). Like... famously so. ~250 minutes of shutout hockey.