Would you rather finish bottom-5 this season or fight for the playoffs?

[Maximus]

I voted for pushing for a playoff spot not because I think we are actually making it but because the fight to get to the playoffs will be such and immeasurably positive experience for all the kids that it far outweighs playing so shitty that we somehow get a Top 5 pick.

The best of both worlds would be for the Rangers after they sell off some of their assets like a Kreider most likely, to play just good enough the rest of the season to where some of the young pups get to experience what it's like to play important games in the month of March when the intensity level of games starts to morph to almost playoff level proportions.

What's pretty cool were these 3 games vs the Islanders gave the Kakko's,Chytil's,Fox's,Shesty's....etc just a little taste of what it's going to be like. And IMO, the kids passed with flying colors as I'd argue that the kids were the best part of our winning 2 of the 3 games.

Let's be honest...this is all about the kids and their development. That's what this whole season is all about. That's why Quinn is here and so far so good as there has been enough winning and positiveness going on, that you can see the kids getting even better including Kakko who IMO played his best game as a Ranger in that last game before the all star break vs Isles.

For them to all of a sudden play so horribly that we sank to a bottom 5 team in the league, that would be some really shitty hockey that the Rangers would have to play to even get to that level. And that would not be a good thing for the kids to experience at all nor good for their development.

This draft is likely from what I read, one of the more deep ones in recent memory. If Rangers end up picking 10th or 12th something they are on track to do, who's to say we won't get as good if not a better player than we'd have gotten at #5...eh?

So no...play your ass off is totally way to go, do your best to make a playoff push even tho it likely comes up short and that's that. Next year is when expectations for playoffs begin anyways so finish the year strong, get the kids some of those intense March games to experience and we go from there and see where things stand.

 

[Rempe73]

Do they need a #1 D? Sure. Those do not grow on trees. Maybe they can get luck and find another Trouba clone and have a competent top pair.

The center thing may or may not already be solved. ZBad IS an elite top line center. Chytil is coming up in the wings and can develop into a second line center. What will also make this interesting is what they will do with Strome. When they are really getting ready to compete, the ability of playing Panarin and ZBad on two separate lines would be huge. Especially when the latter takes on the top opposing players. One of the many, many reasons why this TDL & possible draft deal will clarify what they roster will look like in the near to mid future

I fully trust Zibanejad to be the guy moving forward, but how much of his prime has already been wasted? And how much of his prime will he have left when we begin to contend? He’s also injury-prone (which may be a silver lining, as he’ll have less NHL mileage than others at the same age) and he’s not cost-controlled. I want to be competitive for a long time, and getting a young 1C with elite upside is the best way to do it. Zibanejad is a 1C and he’s relatively young, but is he elite? That’s a problem if we don’t have a 1b center or a true 2C.

 

[True Blue]

nah...you don't see anywhere in my post where I say to stop the rebuilding...I am certainly a believer in it....but the narrative will be that every year we need to lose to get a better chance at a higher pick. My question is when is it okay to root for wins again? This is year 3 of the rebuild....and next year will be year 4...and so on, and so on. I ask again....when is it okay to want to win again?

Is it after we hoard as many pics as possible? Or when we are able to win it all, and not be in "the dreaded middle".....going from getting a high draft pick right to Stanley Cup Champions seems to be what you are saying....when does that happen?

First of all, after this year, it will be year 2.25 of the rebuild. Second of all, how quickly have you seen rebuilds go? They usually take more than a few years and it is folly to expect instant Cup contenders.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Assuming they trade Kreider, Fast and maybe even someone like Strome or Buch between now and the start of next season, where is this dramatic improvement coming from? You still have Staal and Smith here. The names people are throwing around as trade targets are all bottom six guys. And the first round draft picks they'd acquire for these players, even first rounders, can't be expected to step in a make a difference next season. Outside of the progression we expect from Chytil and Kakko, Fox and Lindgren who steps in and replaces what they lose/trade away next year? I'd expect another season like this to be honest.

If we get progressions from those 4, they'll do a pretty good job at making up for what they're losing.

I don't think they're standing pat with the roster that they have now minus a few guys. Just because we're discussing 'bottom 6' types now doesn't mean thats all they're going to target between now and the beginning of 2020-21.

Staal and Smith don't have to play.

 

[True Blue]

I fully trust Zibanejad to be the guy moving forward, but how much of his prime has already been wasted? And how much of his prime will he have left when we begin to contend? He’s also injury-prone (which may be a silver lining, as he’ll have less NHL mileage than others at the same age) and he’s not cost-controlled. I want to be competitive for a long time, and getting a young 1C with elite upside is the best way to do it.

I think that it is safe to say that when the Rangers open the window, he will still be a top line center.

 

[True Blue]

For them to all of a sudden play so horribly that we sank to a bottom 5 team in the league, that would be some really ****ty hockey that the Rangers would have to play to even get to that level. And that would not be a good thing for the kids to experience at all nor good for their development.

There is a pretty good chance that they will begin to nose dive even if it is just Kreider that is moved at TDL.

 

[Rempe73]

I think that it is safe to say that when the Rangers open the window, he will still be a top line center.

Hopefully, but our window will still be pretty short. Drafting a young C this upcoming draft gives us an extra 5-6 years of competing.

 

[True Blue]

Hopefully, but our window will still be pretty short. Drafting a young C this upcoming draft gives us an extra 5-6 years of competing.

I am not saying that is not the case. The issue with relying on it in this year's draft is two fold. There are just not that many centers that are projecting to be that legit top line center. Couple that with whomever it is they do draft, chances are is probably not going to make an impact in the next 3-5 years or so.

 

[Rempe73]

I am not saying that is not the case. The issue with relying on it in this year's draft is two fold. There are just not that many centers that are projecting to be that legit top line center. Couple that with whomever it is they do draft, chances are is probably not going to make an impact in the next 3-5 years or so.

Byfield, Stutzle, Lundell, and Rossi all have elite 1C upside, especially the first 3. I don’t mind reaching for one of them if the opportunity arises.

 

[Maximus]

If we end up 9 or 10 I'm alright. That's about where I think we'll be. Maybe we get to 8......and who know maybe we'll win the lottery again. We're not going to lose all our games though. Rangers are 10-5 against their own division--we have 13 games left within our division. Keeping in mind who we trade I would think we're going to win 4 or 5 of them anyway. We have two games against Detroit--2 against Buffalo. Home games against L. A. and San Jose--so there are some weaker teams ahead. How many of those we win are going to have a lot to do with where are draft placement is.

Like it or not we have real good goaltending. Our defense isn't great but our defensemen can put up a lot of points. We have two legit 1st line players each capable of carrying a line on their back. A team with those components isn't likely to collapse.

Exactly, the Rangers warts and all, are simply too good to be so shitty they can even approach bottom 5.

And like I said previously, the ability to win enough going down the stretch so that we are playing important March hockey games which for the kids to experience would be immeasurable for their developments.

Winning also so far outweighs the team playing so crap ass that we likely drop only 5-7 spots tops, from 11-12 where we likely finish to Top 5 in a draft this deep, I'm actually stunned that I'm in the minority here and most in here would rather lose so much to be a bottom 5 team.

With currently 50 points and 34 games left, in order for Rangers to be bottom 5, we would likely have to go something like 13-21 probably worse the rest of the way and not finish with more than 74-75 points. I know I wouldn't be a happy camper with all that losing going on.

The bitching and moaning that would go on in here, and ironically from a large portion of the same peeps who are hoping we figure out a way to tank , if we actually did lose at a pace like that would make this place beyond insufferable!!

Please lord, don't let us lose like that....play .500 ball and all will be well...lol

 

[Maximus]

There is a pretty good chance that they will begin to nose dive even if it is just Kreider that is moved at TDL.

.

They might...they might not. Depends what you call "nose diving". If you are talking 13-21 in the last 34 games like I suggested in my last post, it's possible tho unlikely as I'm not convinced that no Kreider is the death knoll for the team and the team automatically has "sucks" across the teams forehead.

I think if we could maintain a .500 type of play that we have pretty much been most of the year would be best of both worlds. I'd hate for the kids to have to experience all the negativity that comes with losing alot which is why the way this season has panned out so far has been a wild success in my mind albeit a hiccup or two like Lias and Kravstsov.

I have a strong hunch this team is too good to be as bad as some would want us to be in order to be a bottom 5 team....we shalt see soon enough.

 

[eco's bones]

Exactly, the Rangers warts and all, are simply too good to be so ****ty they can even approach bottom 5.

And like I said previously, the ability to win enough going down the stretch so that we are playing important March hockey games which for the kids to experience would be immeasurable for their developments.

Winning also so far outweighs the team playing so crap ass that we likely drop 5-7 spots tops, from 11-12 where we likely finish to Top 5 in a draft this deep, I'm actually stunned that I'm in the minority here and most in here would rather lose so much to be a bottom 5 team.

With currently 50 points and 34 games left, in order for Rangers to be bottom 5, we would likely have to go something like 13-21 or something like that the rest of the way and not finish with more than 74-75 points.

The *****ing and moaning that would go on in here and even some from the same peeps who are hoping we figure out a way to tank , if we actually did lose at a pace like that would make this place beyond insufferable!!

Please lord, don't let us lose like that....play .500 ball and all will be well...lol

I'm not going to cry about better draft position but young players (and we have a lot of them) need to know they're capable of winning on any given night. It's good for the culture of the team. The coaching staff will push them to do that.

When I use to play by the way the beer always tasted off after a loss.

 

[Edge]

A lot depends on who is moved and for what. This team could see a dip if Kreider is traded, but that could be somewhat mitigated if you're looking at a Kapanen or Labanc like return for Georgiev.

If Strome and Fast are moved, maybe a little more of a slide. But gut tells me Strome stays until at least the offseason.

In the end 2-5 are close, but will be difficult. Six is slightly less difficult --- but might be doable.

The most likely "high" position is 7th, pre-lottery.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

If we get progressions from those 4, they'll do a pretty good job at making up for what they're losing.

I don't think they're standing pat with the roster that they have now minus a few guys. Just because we're discussing 'bottom 6' types now doesn't mean thats all they're going to target between now and the beginning of 2020-21.

Staal and Smith don't have to play.

The thing is, offensively they've been really good this year. You take 3 guys out of the lineup and that's gonna have an effect. Say they move Kreider, Fast and Strome like we all think they will, you're looking at something like this:

Panarin - Zib - Kakko
xx - Chytil - Buch
Lemieux - Howden - xx (Kravtsov?)
xx -McGegg - (Barron?)

That doesn't at least give you pause? Their first round picks, say they have 2, can't be expected to contribute next year. I guess if they really win their trades and the FA market this summer they have a shot to be as good as this year, but much better? I don't see it.

 

[Edge]

I'm starting to think the Rangers might not move all three forwards. They'll move at least one of the three, maybe even two. But I'm not sure I see all three moving, not unless Strome brings back a wing or a LD.

And what position they prioritize in a potential Strome deal, might have a lot to do with who they receive in a potential Georgiev deal.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I'm starting to think the Rangers might not move all three forwards. They'll move at least one of the three, maybe even two. But I'm not sure I see all three moving, not unless Strome brings back a wing or a LD.

And what position they prioritize in a potential Strome deal, might have a lot to do with who they receive in a potential Georgiev deal.

Right, but those are all hypotheticals. How can anyone today say that this team will be much better next year with so much uncertainty? I do know that right now, they don't don't have the players internally to fill the void (which is fine) and that any trade, signing, or draft pick is far from a certainty. Which is why I think next year is probably no better than this year.

 

[Edge]

Right, but those are all hypotheticals. How can anyone today say that this team will be much better next year with so much uncertainty? I do know that right now, they don't don't have the players internally to fill the void (which is fine) and that any trade, signing, or draft pick is far from a certainty. Which is why I think next year is probably no better than this year.

I don't think anyone says it as certainty, but I do tend to like the odds when I factor in what I think Kakko and Fox can do in their second years, when I think about what some of our options at LD might look like with more seasoning, and what a guy like Chytil should do next year.

Then I take into account that, hypothetical or not, some combination of Georgiev, Kreider, Strome and Fast will be bringing back assets. And not all of those assets are likely to be picks. You're probably looking at some some guys who are ready to step in, possibly a guy or two who is already an NHL player, and whatever options come up.

Will it make them a top team? No, don't see that happening.

But is there a possibility for them to be a bubble team? Yeah, I think so. And that's without any huge wish-casting via trade.

 

[True Blue]

.

They might...they might not. Depends what you call "nose diving". If you are talking 13-21 in the last 34 games like I suggested in my last post, it's possible tho unlikely as I'm not convinced that no Kreider is the death knoll for the team and the team automatically has "sucks" across the teams forehead.

I think if we could maintain a .500 type of play that we have pretty much been most of the year would be best of both worlds. I'd hate for the kids to have to experience all the negativity that comes with losing alot which is why the way this season has panned out so far has been a wild success in my mind albeit a hiccup or two like Lias and Kravstsov.

I have a strong hunch this team is too good to be as bad as some would want us to be in order to be a bottom 5 team....we shalt see soon enough.

Right now, there is no one stepping on to be another top 6 player for the Rangers. Take him out and the team is worse, not better. I am not sure how they continue to maintain even the current level of play. And if one or two other pieces are moved (Strome, Fast, Buchnevich), then you are talking a pretty dramatic drop in overall talent level.

I have maintained all along that this team is a lottery team. I think that post TDL, that is where it will trend.

 

[True Blue]

Byfield, Stutzle, Lundell, and Rossi all have elite 1C upside, especially the first 3. I don’t mind reaching for one of them if the opportunity arises.

Byfield certainly dos. I do not see Lundell and think "elite". Though I would be very happy if he was to be the pick. Rossi certainly is a riser, and am not sure about him. For some reason, I never loved Stutzle. I could change my mind by draft day. But something is missing from his game for me.

 

[Off Sides]

Panarin/Stome/Zbad probably being at about peak as they are going to get this year

Kakko looking like he may be next season where Chytil is in development this season

Likely the selling of better NHLer(s) than they are getting back at the deadline

A summer where the UFAs are not that appealing

~7.5M in buyout space, probably ~10M in Staal/Smith, Maybe add 8.5M in Lundqvist, still here for next year.

Expansion concerns with any trades, signings.

I can plausible see the NHL roster having about the same potential next year as they do this year.

(Not that I think it's a bad thing, this was always going to take time to unwind, and rebuild)

 

[Mandar]

First of all, after this year, it will be year 2.25 of the rebuild. Second of all, how quickly have you seen rebuilds go? They usually take more than a few years and it is folly to expect instant Cup contenders.

This upcoming trade deadline is the third deadline of the rebuild (trades made with the expressed desire for rebuilding and acquiring young talent), so go easy with the decimals Einstein.

A lot of recent posts in this thread have gotten it right....ridiculous to root to lose, as losing creates that culture. Not what we want all our young talent to be about. Maybe the message gets lost in the translation......do you want to tank and root for losses? I don't....was great to see the way the boys finished last year...when some got annoyed every time we won....and the we got the 2nd pick anyway.

I want us to win....to improve....and create a winning culture. And I want the young talent coming up and yet to be drafted to be entrenched in that kind of culture.

Or...tank....root for losses....and hope the switch gets flipped.

 

[Maximus]

Right now, there is no one stepping on to be another top 6 player for the Rangers. Take him out and the team is worse, not better. I am not sure how they continue to maintain even the current level of play. And if one or two other pieces are moved (Strome, Fast, Buchnevich), then you are talking a pretty dramatic drop in overall talent level.

I have maintained all along that this team is a lottery team. I think that post TDL, that is where it will trend.

If it's just Kreider who leaves, I'd be comfortable in thinking that a Chytil for example or maybe even Kakko's production goes up with the additional ice time they'd get if Kreider leaves. Maybe a combo of both. Lord knows Chytil might be the unluckiest player on the team and he's due for some good luvin.

Now if it's a total sell off and Fast and Strome also go maybe even Georgie too, than I might buy what your selling and thoughts of hanging around the .500 mark would be unrealistic and potentially a lottery team would be in play.

But just Kreider goes, I'll take my chances I'd end up being right and Rangers would still hang around .500 area and not be even close to a bottom 5 team as the majority of peeps in here hope for the Rangers to be apparently.

 

[Rempe73]

Byfield certainly dos. I do not see Lundell and think "elite". Though I would be very happy if he was to be the pick. Rossi certainly is a riser, and am not sure about him. For some reason, I never loved Stutzle. I could change my mind by draft day. But something is missing from his game for me.

Maybe you aren’t as high on Lundell or Stutzle because they don’t have anything that jumps out at you? They are great, but not amazing, at many things. Stutzle is an unknown for me, but I’m willing to take the risk. I would love to get him. Rossi I’m more cautious about. He’s been all over the place in the rankings.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Fight for the playoffs but still make the trades needed too for the future of this organization, Kreider, Fast, maybe Strome, Skjei, Buchnevich, Georgiev. Get another young Lemieux types NHL players or close to NHL players in 2020, not prospects that are rookies in 2025

 

[Maximus]

Next year will be interesting.

It's a fairly tight league and as we're seeing this season, the difference between sitting with the 15th pick and out of the playoffs, vs. sitting with the 26th pick and 4th playoff spot in the East, could be as little as 2 points by the end of January 2021.

If that's the case, the pressure on the team, and expressed on these boards, could be fairly intense.

Not a question in my mind expectations next year will morph vs what they were this year. Playoffs will likely be the expectation of most including myself if I were going to be honest. Withought knowing a single thing that Gorton/JD do at the TDL and in the offseason, with anticipated development next year of the kids' in particularly Chytil and Kakko, Fox, Kravstsov?.

With continued improvement on defense and solid goaltending once again, why wouldn't most in here anticipate that playoffs are the next step in in the rebuild which we would have now been 3 drafts into it. Now I'm not talking top 3 Metro type playoff expectations but to be one of those teams thats on the playoff periphery with a realistic chance to grab one of those WC spots.

With the way the rebuild is going and by the way it is going awefully good considering, I'd think by 2022 this team would not only be playoff team but ready to win a round or two possibly. And than by 2023 going forward unless something catastrophic occurs which I dont nor any of us can foresee, I see this team competing for Cups for the rest of the 2020's.

Now it's not a guarantee obviously the team makes the playoffs next year but there is not a doubt in my mind there will be expectations to go dancing spring of 2021 and it wouldn't be unreasonable either.