Worst Supporting Cast throughout a HOFer's Career

[mrhockey193195]

Fair warning, I'm coming at this question from a very biased place.

With the recent announcement that Henrik Lundqvist will be inducted into the HOF as part of the class of 2023, a lot of discussion has bubbled up amongst the masses about the fact that he did not win a Stanley Cup and will be one of the few goalies in history to be inducted without one. More sensible fans have countered with arguments & statistics in Henrik's favor that put the "ring count" debate to bed - most of which is common knowledge to many of us here. But one of those stats really caught me by surprise, even though I watched the entirety of Henrik's NHL career and subconsciously knew it was the case before seeing it explicitly written out: Lundqvist played with practically no other HOFers.

Here's the list of HOF players who were his teammates:

- Jaromir Jagr (3 seasons, 2005-06 to 2007-08)
- Brendan Shanahan (2 seasons, 2006-07 to 2007-08)
- Martin St. Louis (1.5 seasons, 2013-14 to 2014-15)
- Adam Fox (1 season, 2019-20)*

* Note: I'm being very generous in suggesting that Fox will be HOF at the end of their career, which is far from a certainty. It was also Fox's rookie season, and Henrik's last NHL season where he only played 30 games.

That's it. That's the whole list. Furthermore, all four players listed were mostly outside their prime when they played with Henrik. He really only got 2005-06 Jagr in terms of prime HOF teammate.

One could argue, it's less meaningful to talk about number of shared seasons with HOFers, and maybe more valid to talk about number of shared seasons with players having HOF-caliber seasons themselves (e.g., Kevin Stevens in 1992-93 was a HOF caliber season, even though Stevens himself is not a HOFer). So while that would remove everything but Jagr 05-06 from above, it would almost certainly add more seasons to the list from non-HOF teammates over the years. Right? Well, let's take a look a HOF-caliber seasons by Henrik's teammates:

- Jaromir Jagr (2005-06)
- Artemi Panarin (2019-20: 1st AST, 3rd in points)
- Mika Zibanejad (2019-20: 41 goals in 57 games, 1st in GPG)

(obviously, the idea of a HOF-caliber season is very subjective, but you'd be hard pressed to find any other seasons that are even on the fence. Maybe Gaborik in 2009-10)

Again, accounting for the fact that 2019-20 was the end of his career and he barely played, if we exclude Panarin and Zibanejad, Lundqvist really only had one season in his entire career playing with a teammate who was at a HOF level. And it was his rookie year, to boot.

Despite all of this, he led the Rangers to 3 ECFs in 4 seasons (including a SCF appearance), a 6-2 record in game 7s (1.11 GAA, .961 SV%), 10+ straight seasons of elite play, etc. You all know his accolades. And the few instances when he DID have elite teammates (i.e., at the Olympics), he managed win a Gold Medal (2006) and a Silver Medal (2014) out of his 3 appearances.

So the question I have is the following:

Has any other HOF player had less cumulative support throughout their careers than Lundqvist?

Cary Price comes to mind - he arguably had even less offensive support (1 teammate PPG season vs. Henrik's 7), but at least had a couple HOF-caliber seasons from defensemen in Subban & Weber.

Any there any others that come close? If so, have any of them had more team success than Henrik (i.e., have any of them won a cup)?

Click to read more...

 

[Crosby2010]

Marcel Dionne comes to mind. Larry Murphy was there when he was young. Charlie Simmer and Dave Taylor had some HHOF-like seasons, but weren't HHOFers. Rogie Vachon was there for a bit with him. But his cast was thin.

Carey Price would have a worse supporting cast than Lundqvist.

I would say up until 2013 when he got traded to Pittsburgh that Iginla fits this bill perfectly.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I don't know if it counts (or if I'm even right), but Hobey Baker...?

Dan Bain? Maybe one of the guys who worked on the pre-merger ranking can confirm/deny that...

 

[mrhockey193195]

Marcel Dionne comes to mind. Larry Murphy was there when he was young. Charlie Simmer and Dave Taylor had some HHOF-like seasons, but weren't HHOFers. Rogie Vachon was there for a bit with him. But his cast was thin.

Carey Price would have a worse supporting cast than Lundqvist.

I would say up until 2013 when he got traded to Pittsburgh that Iginla fits this bill perfectly.

I'm not suggesting those LA teams were deep or complete teams, but Taylor, Simmer, and Vachon is a very reasonable supporting cast in terms of elite talent. In particular, the latter two. But he's a good shout, for certain.

Iginla, I agree completely. Had no elite teammates until he played on PIT & BOS besides Kiprusoff.

 

[mrhockey193195]

To take a different angle to what I was asking with:

have any [players with similarly little support] had more team success than Henrik (i.e., have any of them won a cup)?

Almost by definition, I'm asking if any team has won the cup with only one HOF on the roster. STL in 2019 is the only team I can think of that likely will not have a single HOFer on it. For Vegas this past year, it's plausible that Jack Eichel eventually ends up in the HOF, and he's had a disastrous set of supporting casts over the years. Maybe Eichel will eventually fit the bill?

Any other teams that were led by a single HOFer to a cup win?

 

[crobro]

Pavel Bure

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

To take a different angle to what I was asking with:



Almost by definition, I'm asking if any team has won the cup with only one HOF on the roster. STL in 2019 is the only team I can think of that likely will not have a single HOFer on it. For Vegas this past year, it's plausible that Jack Eichel eventually ends up in the HOF, and he's had a disastrous set of supporting casts over the years. Maybe Eichel will eventually fit the bill?

Any other teams that were led by a single HOFer to a cup win?

Pietrangelo doesn't have a shot at the HOF?

Perhaps ROR if he finishes his career strong?

 

[MadLuke]

There was a similar conversation not too long ago:

Only once did a Hab hit 80 points during Carey Price's career. Is there a current/future HHOFer who had a worse supporting cast than this?

In 2008 Alex Kovalev had an 84 point year with Montreal. This was Carey Price's rookie season. After that no Canadien ever hit 80 points. There was PK Subban winning the Norris in that shortened season in 2013, but that is about all Price had in the way of any sort of good support in his career...

forums.hfboards.com

Iginla.

Ottawa Karlsson (and maybe for a little while on the Sharks as well), Sundin, Hasek were the kind of people being talked about for recent player.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Pietrangelo doesn't have a shot at the HOF?

Perhaps ROR if he finishes his career strong?

Good call on Pietrangelo. What do we think his chances are at this point?

 

[jigglysquishy]

I don't know if it counts (or if I'm even right), but Hobey Baker...?

Dan Bain? Maybe one of the guys who worked on the pre-merger ranking can confirm/deny that...

Dan Bain had a decently stacked team. At the least, had teammates that will end up on our aggregate list.

Russell Bowie was a one man show.

 

[Victorias]

Hasek’s Sabres, especially in the second half of the 90’s, were basically the definition of a one man team. He took a team whose leading scorer had 46(!) points to within 2 games of a Cup final (and then of course two wins from a Cup win the next year):

And yeah, Lundqvist is underrated. I see him all over the GSaX leaderboard:

 

[mrhockey193195]

There was a similar conversation not too long ago:

Only once did a Hab hit 80 points during Carey Price's career. Is there a current/future HHOFer who had a worse supporting cast than this?

In 2008 Alex Kovalev had an 84 point year with Montreal. This was Carey Price's rookie season. After that no Canadien ever hit 80 points. There was PK Subban winning the Norris in that shortened season in 2013, but that is about all Price had in the way of any sort of good support in his career...

forums.hfboards.com

Iginla.

Ottawa Karlsson (and maybe for a little while on the Sharks as well), Sundin, Hasek were the kind of people being talked about for recent player.

Hasek up until he goes to Detroit absolutely fits the bill, but I'd say his latter years with DET Iwinning the cup on one of the most decorated teams of all time) and OTT (Heatley, Alfredsson, Spezza, Chara, Redden all in their prime) disqualify him from this.

 

[MS]

Good call on Pietrangelo. What do we think his chances are at this point?

About 95%.

#1 defender on two Cup winners, 3x post-season All-Star. He’s in, by the bars that have been set.

 

[seventieslord]

About 95%.

#1 defender on two Cup winners, 3x post-season All-Star. He’s in, by the bars that have been set.

Even 95% is very conservative.

 

[MS]

Even 95% is very conservative.

Yeah, I originally typed 99% but then dialed it back slightly because the HHOF selection procedures are so bizarre and unpredictable.

But guys like Pietrangelo and Letang are basically carbon copies of Sergei Zubov’s career. They’re in.

 

[NyQuil]

Dale Hawerchuk only made it past the second round one time - with the Flyers in 1997.

He had to make do with some questionable Jets and Sabres lineups.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Dale Hawerchuk only made it past the second round one time - with the Flyers in 1997.

He had to make due with some questionable Jets and Sabres lineups.

hawerchuk is a good one. his teammate support during his peak has to be one of the all time worst.

but then so many buffalo hall of famers turgeon/lafontaine, andreychuk, fuhr, hasek, and apparently someday maybe mogilny. and then in st louis he had all five of gretzky, hull, macinnis, pronger, and fuhr again when he left. it's almost like a twilight zone episode where poor winnipeg hawerchuk prays for hall of fame teammates and he gets those two teams while the hockey gods point and laugh at him.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Here's the list of HOF players who were his teammates:

- Jaromir Jagr (3 seasons, 2005-06 to 2007-08)
- Brendan Shanahan (2 seasons, 2006-07 to 2007-08)
- Adam Fox (1 season, 2019-20)*

Martin St. Louis was also his teammate for the run to the finals.

 

[yada]

Like mentioned the post above me brought up martin st louis. I'd also add rick nash, should NOT make the HHOF however some previous choices may open up a spot for him and possibly ryan mcdonagh who i wouldn't induct either but he's a 2X cup winner and 4X cup finalist.

 

[MXD]

Good call on Pietrangelo. What do we think his chances are at this point?

I think he's running straight into Kristopher Letang.

Carey Price will probably have played with only one HHOFer when all is said and done (Shea Weber), and one who was somewhat past his prime. Also played with only two player receiving Hart support (while teammates with him - Kovalev and Subban), and none of those two are the probable HHOFer.

..And, unless I'm missing something, those three players, along with Corey Perry, Thomas Vanek and Ilya Kovalchuk, are the only ones of his teammates who received at any point of their careers any kind of Hart support. Both Perry and Kovalchuk were far, far removed from their primes, and Vanek only played 18 games (and also probably a bit past his prime, and seven years removed from the single 5th place vote he had received at the very beginning of his career).

EDIT : For the record, it took Lundqvist all of two seasons to get two (different) teammates getting Hart support : Jagr and Shanahan, and I can pretty much name on top of my head three other players getting Hart support as a Rangers : Panarin, Gaborik and Nash.

 

[The Panther]

hawerchuk is a good one. his teammate support during his peak has to be one of the all time worst.

Was Buffalo his peak? According to the Hockey Hall of Insanity, the early-90s' Sabres were the greatest dynasty of all time.

 

[The Panther]

About the thread-topic: Iginla and Price come to mind.

Dominik Hašek probably had the most individual success---certainly by a goalie---with the least help, for a sustained (more than a couple of seasons) period, from about 1995 to 2000. But in his first couple of seasons in Buffalo, and of course near the end in Detroit, he had lots of great players around him.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Martin St. Louis was also his teammate for the run to the finals.

Well spotted! I'll edit the post.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Vanbiesbrouck is probably another good example? Outside of the early 90s where he got prime Leetch & Messier for a few seasons, and his brief stint in Philly when he got Lindros/Recchi/LeClair/Desjardins, he basically had no HOF caliber teammates throughout his entire career (obviously excluding Lafleur and Dionne on the Rangers since they were past their primes).

 

[mrhockey193195]

Like mentioned the post above me brought up martin st louis. I'd also add rick nash, should NOT make the HHOF however some previous choices may open up a spot for him and possibly ryan mcdonagh who i wouldn't induct either but he's a 2X cup winner and 4X cup finalist.

Neither Nash nor McDonagh will make the HOF, though there is an alternate universe where both do make it. I was thinking about whether either of them had "HOF caliber" seasons with Henrik. I feel pretty confident the answer is "no" though.

Nash in 14-15 had 42 goals, 3rd in the league (2nd in GPG) in a historically bad year in terms of top-end point getters, so that was borderline. But he was a complete no-show in the playoffs which tips the scales in my opinion.

McDonagh in 2013-14 was excellent. One of the best defensive players in the league. But likely he was just cracking top-10 defensemen in the league. Not quite the caliber that I'm thinking about here (as opposed to Keith, Doughty, Chara, Weber, etc. who were at a HOF level that season).