Worst Plus/Minus in History?

[The Panther]

Bill Mikkelson famously has the worst single-season plus/minus with a tidy minus 82 for Washington in 1974-75.

Anyone know who has the career-worst plus-minus?

Also, I read that minus 61 is the worst since Mikkelson. Who got that?

 

[quoipourquoi]

Bill Mikkelson famously has the worst single-season plus/minus with a tidy minus 82 for Washington in 1974-75.

Anyone know who has the career-worst plus-minus?

Also, I read that minus 61 is the worst since Mikkelson. Who got that?

Bob Stewart was a minus-260.

Dennis Owchar (1978), Dave Babych (1981), and Larry Johnson (1976) have all hit -61 since Mikkelson's -81 in 1975.

 

[alko]

according to this -

Bob Stewart, -260
Don Lever , -240
Gary Croteau, -227
.
.
.

 

[The Panther]

That's great, thanks. So hats off to Bob Stewart! (Just kidding, Bob.)

What's perhaps not surprising is that of those top 100 worst career plus/minuses (linked by Alko), 99 of them played for more than one team! The lone exception is Dennis Kearns, D-man for 10 seasons with Vancouver in the 1970s.

It is a little surprising to see Rob Ramage and Kirk Muller on that list, however!

 

[The Panther]

Speaking of Plus/Minus, here's an extreme stat:

Wayne Gretzky with Edmonton, 1979 to 1988:
+551, #1 in the NHL over that period

Wayne Gretzky with 3 US franchises, 1988 to 1999:
-33, #1625 in the NHL over that period

 

[Plural]

Well, Gretzky's difference in that stat can be explained to great extend by the strength of those teams and Gretzky's natural/Suter caused decline.

 

[The Panther]

Well, Gretzky's difference in that stat can be explained to great extend by the strength of those teams and Gretzky's natural/Suter caused decline.

Yes, of course plus/minus is not really an individual statistic (to a greater extent), but that is particularly telling.

"The grass is not always greener on the other side (of the US border)."

 

[Plural]

Yes, of course plus/minus is not really an individual statistic (to a greater extent), but that is particularly telling.

"The grass is not always greener on the other side (of the US border)."

In that case, leaving Edmonton and joining the L.A the grass definitely wasn't greener on that side. Although, Gretzky was +55 in his first three years with the L.A. +15, +8 and +30. After that, it was completely downhill for him.

[table="css=transp;head"]Year|Team|Gretzky +/-|Team +/-|GF|GA|OBS!
79-80|EDM|+15|-21|301|322|N/A
80-81|EDM|+41|+1|328|327|N/A
81-82|EDM|+81|+122|417|295|League leader +/-
82-83|EDM|+60|+109|424|315|N/A
83-84|EDM|+76|+132|446|314|League leader +/-
84-85|EDM|+98|+103|401|298|League leader +/-
85-86|EDM|+71|+116|426|310|N/A
86-87|EDM|+70|+88|372|284|League leader +/-
87-88|EDM|+39|+75|363|288|N/A
88-89|LAK|+15|+41|376|335|N/A
89-90|LAK|+8|+1|338|337|N/A
90-91|LAK|+30|+86|340|254|N/A
91-92|LAK|-12|-9|287|296|N/A
92-93|LAK|+6|-2|338|340|N/A
93-94|LAK|-25|-28|294|322|N/A
94-95|LAK|-20|-32|142|174|48GP
95-96|LAK|-7|-46|256|302|62GP/Gretzky
95-96|STL|-6|-29|219|248|18GP/Gretzky
95-96|TOT|-13|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A
96-97|NYR|+12|+27|258|231|N/A
97-98|NYR|-11|-34|197|231|N/A
98-99|NYR|-23|-10|217|227|N/A[/table]
​

This shows pretty clearly that +/- is basically team stat.

That's also a huge difference on overall scoring in the league. More than twice the amount of goals scored by Edmonton at one season than Rangers at their worst season.

 

[The Panther]

Fascinating stats and thank you for it!

However, just to point out that it's not really accurate to line up a player's plus/minus against the team's overall goal differential because, of course, the player's plus/minus doesn't account for power-play goals (but the team's overall goal-differential does). Thus, there's a mis-match in the analysis, particularly in the case of high-scoring forwards and defence that would regularly be on the power-play.

For example, to take Gretzky's best on-ice goal-differential season (1984-85), he was +98. In that season, the Oilers scored 74 power play goals and had 76 scored against them. I would guess that Gretzky was on the ice for maybe 75% of their power play goals scored -- he had 43 power-play points (another +56) -- and was killing penalties for maybe 40% of the power-play goals against (another -30). Combined, then, his "actual" on-ice personal goal-differential is +98 plus maybe +26 = +124. That's the kind of number that should be aligned to the team's overall goal differential.

I suppose we can infer that high-scoring forwards on bad teams who don't kill penalties would have a significantly improved plus/minus if we could see their "actual" plus/minus, regardless of special teams. (In Gretzky's case, that would probably improve his early-seasons' plus/minuses a lot, but after about 1984 or so he starts killing penalties more, and thereafter it would improve his plus/minus less, but still somewhat.)

 

[Plural]

Yeah, I know the fundamentals on how +/- is counted. I just had few minutes of free time and quickly listed the data. I thought at first to include PP/PK production too and might do that. I just wasn't up for it yet.

Actually, I might just do it today. Could be interesting to see the "full" +/- differential from Gretzky compared to his teams. It will just take a little while longer. I don't think the data is as easily accessible as the data listed above.


So, basically every time Gretzky would be on ice when goal is scored in his team's net he would get a -1 and every time he is on ice when goal is scored against Gretzky's opposition he would get +1. Regardless of how many men on ice.

 

[The Panther]

Yes, I wasn't criticizing you -- I love that you posted that chart!! I'm just thinking out loud (as I type) about the nature of plus/minus vis-a-vis different kinds of players.

Indeed, it would be fascinating to see the "raw" plus/minus of many great players over their career span. But is such info available anywhere??

 

[SealsFan]

Bob Stewart, -260
Don Lever , -240
Gary Croteau, -227

Oh dear, some stats I wish I hadn't learned about...

Croteau's numbers are understandable - 4 years with the Seals, 2 with the KC Scouts and 4 with the Colorado Rockies!

 

[Killion]

Oh dear, some stats I wish I hadn't learned about..

.... Yep. Bobby Stewart. Poor guy. OHA All Star with the Oshawa Generals. Gets Drafted by Boston in 1970 so good luck cracking a starting role on Defence on that team, off to the Minors, eventually traded to California after appearing in just 8 games for the Bruins. Stay at home Defenceman / Policeman. Was Captain one year in Cleveland, very active with the Players Union & in dealing with the ownership in Ohio there when they imploded unable to meet payroll etc.

 

[BacklundtoBartschi*]

Speaking of Plus/Minus, here's an extreme stat:

Wayne Gretzky with Edmonton, 1979 to 1988:
+551, #1 in the NHL over that period

Wayne Gretzky with 3 US franchises, 1988 to 1999:
-33, #1625 in the NHL over that period

Incredible.

 

[Big Phil]

Kirk Muller is an example of a player who was still good defensively but has a poor career plus minus. That can be explained, after all he finished as high as 10th in Selke voting once so we know Muller wasn't a floater. But he played on some horrible teams, had some bad times in the franchise's history. The fact that he was only -14 on the 1998 Panthers is actually pretty good considering he would have faced some top forwards. Other than his time in Montreal when he won a Cup, he really was never a plus player for a season much elsewhere. I mean, he killed penalties, he was responsible in his own end, he was just on bad teams.