Proposal: Immature losses under Woodcroft mounting.

5 Mins 4 Ftg

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Forgive the wall of text but I am going to state the case as best I can and provide a solution.

Yes we have our best winger on the shelf for multiple months with a lacerated forearm.
Yes we have had 3 other top 9 wingers on the shelf for a few weeks.
Yes our starting goalie has not been good to start the season.

For teams that are supposed to be top 4 contenders with elite level coaching those are just excuses and solvable problems.

Good coaches adjust to the hands they are dealt and the opponents they are playing to formulate a winning game plan, especially when you have 2 nuclear weapons in your arsenal. Case in point, Arizona who on paper should be 0-25. Case in point, Boston who despite massive injuries are leading the league. Case in point, Toronto (yuck) who despite missing their top 3 D and their goaltenders manage to win far more than they lose.

Last season Woody benefited from the additions of Kane, a late season resurgent Keith and Smith, and McDavid / Draisaitl going ballistic. But to his credit, Woody changed the defensive structure to a simpler system that gave zone responsibility vs man on man and held the blue line. He also completely changed our breakout from the long chip and chase to a tight 5 man unit, adapted our forecheck from a wide 2-1-2 to a tighter 2-1-2 and strong D pinch with support from F3.

This all created 5 man support in every area of the ice which results in possession, dangerous shot suppression and creates high danger shots for. It played to the creative strengths of McDavid and Draisaitl. He lowered Nurse, McDavid and Draisaitls minutes, spreading the ice time more evenly resulting in not burning out our 2 superstars by April. He solved our poor first period starts. He adjusted in game early and often. He improved special teams. He denied easy zone entries.

This season, I think Dave Tippet is back wearing a Woody mask. We are back to the exact same long breakout and ineffective forecheck Tippett used. Back to scrambling in our D zone in large part to soft play and lack of awareness and responsibility. Back to shaky goaltending from our starter. Back to poor first period starts. Back to a piss poor PK. Back to elevated minutes for Nurse, McDavid and Draisaitl. Back to being one of the worst defensive teams in the league. Back to piss poor player personnel decisions on all 4 lines. Back to waiting to make in game adjustments until it's far too late to recover. Our D today back right into the zamboni stall. The front of our net is back to being an easy access area for opponents.

Woody ran the worst training camp since Dallas Eakins and according to McDavid, runs soft and slow practices and now even does Novice level skills and drills when in season practice time is pure gold and the team is struggling.

Certainly player personnel has something to do with this and Ken Holland takes his share of the blame however changing the GM today does nothing to change our on ice fortunes as the flat salary cap has jammed the trade market and the Oilers, along with 70% of the other teams are over the cap in LTIR severely limiting trade options. There are going to be no in season saving trades and no Evander Kane's dropping out of the sky to play for near league minimum.

However, right now there are two proven coaches out there that no matter the team insist on structured, balanced play. Quennville and Trotz. Quennville has been cancelled so he is off the table. Trotz is however available and stated he is ready to come back.

When you have a top unrestricted free agent coach who has proven to be able to work with everything from garbage rosters (early Nashville) to elite offensive superstars with egos and track records of putting offence before defence (Ovechkin, Kuznetzov, Backstrom, Carlson), taking them to a cup victory, improving a middle of the road Islander team to a playoff threat (last season was derailed by Covid and a 20 game road trip while their arena was being completed), you simply have to consider that option.

We have right now a rookie coach who poses in front of the camera and talks a good pre and post game presser, but last night was outright fumbling (and even telling a few fibs) through his presser and believing in his own bullshit. Rob Tychkowski was, as usual, the only guy in the media with a set of balls who called him out on it. What did we get? More bullshit about it being a 1 goal game and indirectly piling onto Bouchard for costing the team the game, when it was clear to even the most casual observer that we got speedbagged that entire game, in particular in the coaching department.

We are in the waning years of the contracts of our two megastars and are playing below league average hockey right now. We cannot hitch our ride to a rookie poser when there is a legitimate elite level coaching talent just sitting there waiting to be hired who has the track record of snapping teams into winning positions fast.

Holland made (another) mistake by not in the very least interviewing Trotz to gauge his level of interest before signing onto 3 years of a rookie who ran with near historic levels of performance by McDavid and an injured Draisaitl along with Kane scoring well above his average in the post season.

We have 2.5 years left in this window until LA comes knocking for Draisaitl after Kopitars contract expires and they will offer far more than Edmonton can afford with McDavids contract up the next year. (plus no comparison in terms of lifestyle and weather)

Do you give Woody the chance? Or do you want to actually increase the chances to win now and hire Trotz.

My vote is cut Woody loose and hire Trotz.

You?
 
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Soundwave

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Not going to happen. Unless Holland is turfed and his replacement uses the “I want to bring in my own guy” (legitimate) excuse

That is the general way it works ... if a new GM is hired they get to bring in their own coaching hire. Unless the team is tanking or something in which case sometimes they just keep the current guy on.
 

McAsuno

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It ain't happening.
If anything, the ones that need to be out of this organization consist of two people.

1) Ken Holland
2) Bob Nicholson

Nicholson alone has done what exactly for this organization other than a shit burger and blaming one player for the Oilers not making the playoffs? I mean he did also choose to hire his hockey Canada buddy in Holland. Typical dinosaurs hiring dinosaurs.
 

5 Mins 4 Ftg

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A simple question, why in the hell would Trotz come to this nepotistic rotten organization? Trotz has very little connection to the den of evil known as Hockey Canada, so Holland wouldn't even look his way.

Of course, the real solution is to purge the front office.

Money and the same reason every coach has, a legit chance to win a cup.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

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Money and the same reason every coach has, a legit chance to win a cup.
As long as Holland, Nicholson, and his buddies are running things, this team will not win a Stanley Cup. The more time passes this season the more I'm convinced last year was a fluke set up by McDavid and Draisatl.
 

Soundwave

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They won't do it but Trotz would be an upgrade. Especially on the defensive side of the puck.
 

Mr Kot

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Was willing to give him a year, and at times he did look good. However, the warts really started during the playoffs, needed McDavid to go nuclear to save the playoff season. You can tell the players don't have the fire lit for them every game, it's the coaches job to get them going. He hasn't done it, well, ever I don't think. Don't think he's a bad guy and, maybe with youngsters, he's fine as a developer. But he seems a bit too lenient with his players. Need someone who will make players responsible for their play on ice.
 

29Beast97Mode

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A lot of these same problems were issues under tippett. Maybe it's a personnel problem not a coaching problem ie the coach can only do so much. Look at Puljujarvi and how bad his hands are, you can't really blame woodcroft for that when jesse gets chances but never scores.
 
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Soundwave

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People who wanted their "young and fun" coach got it though, lol, doesn't look like that alone moves the needle.

It's a roster issue at the end of the day.

Can't act surprised when your organization can't draft for shit and can't trade for shit, your ability to acquire good players is extremely narrow in that case (trying to build a team basically through UFA signings in years where you do have cap room, which is like every 2nd/3rd year, and every 2nd/3rd signing turns into a bust like Campbell looks like).

Coach is hamstrung by a bottom 5 management group that doesn't give him what he needs.
 
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MoontoScott

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How many coaches do you fire before you realize that the problem is at the top of the food chain? This guy Katz is a riddle-- wrapped in an enigma-- shrouded in mystery to me. Look at some of the utility turkeys he has hired and take a gander at some of the guys who are still hanging around the organization. What do most of these guys do all day? This becomes an even more poignant question when you look at the depth in the organization.

I agree that Mc-Drai already look bagged and we are nowhere near spring but with Hyman and Kane out of the lineup who else besides the superstars can put the puck in the net? Ya I know, Puls is getting a lot of chances. Ryan is working hard. For Shore you can get some good efforts from the guys down the ladder but many of them are border line NHLer's. You could demote some of them but the X-man (a 20 year old rookie) is the only guy down on the farm who looks like he might be able to score in the NHL.

The responsibility for acquiring forward depth isn't on the coach. Ultimately he must have some other horses he can ride.
 
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5 Mins 4 Ftg

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A lot of these same problems were issues under tippett. Maybe it's a personnel problem not a coaching problem ie the coach can only do so much. Look at Puljujarvi and how bad his hands are, you can't really blame woodcroft for that when jesse gets chances but never scores.

But you can blame the coach for putting him on the top line time and time again and failing to remove him fast enough when its apparent to everyone watching that he is killing the line.

The thing is Woody did change systems and this year he has reverted to what didn't work.

A coach like Trotz has shown he can make a group like this succeed.
 

BoldNewLettuce

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Dec 21, 2008
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A simple question, why in the hell would Trotz come to this nepotistic rotten organization? Trotz has very little connection to the den of evil known as Hockey Canada, so Holland wouldn't even look his way.

Of course, the real solution is to purge the front office.
Act1-den-clear1.jpg
 

5 Mins 4 Ftg

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Apr 3, 2016
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How many coaches do you fire before you realize that the problem is at the top of the food chain? This guy Katz is a riddle-- wrapped in an enigma-- shrouded in mystery to me. Look at some of the utility turkeys he has hired and take a gander at some of the guys who are still hanging around the organization. What do most of these guys do all day? This becomes an even more poignant question when you look at the depth in the organization.

I agree that Mc-Drai already look bagged and we are nowhere near spring but with Hyman and Kane out of the lineup who else besides the superstars can put the puck in the net? Ya I know, Puls is getting a lot of chances. Ryan is working hard. For Shore you can get some good efforts from the guys down the ladder but many of them are border line NHLer's. You could demote some of them but the X-man (a 20 year old rookie) is the only guy down on the farm who looks like he might be able to score in the NHL.

The responsibility for acquiring forward depth isn't on the coach. Ultimately he must have some other horses he can ride.

As I said, you can change GMs all you want. That wont save the season. Trotz has shown he can do it so why would you not?

Lots of talk about changing GMs here. Sure that is a huge issue however, it wont change anything as there are no players coming in to save the season.

In 3 years there is a huge chance Draisaitl signs with someone like the Kings who will have $10M plus the cap increase to a free agent contract we cant match.

We have this season and 2 more to make this a cup winner. A new GM isn't going to be able to draft and trade their way out of this. However a coach like Trotz can make a hard run now, not wait.

Objectively it seems to me to be the only way forward until Hollands contract expires at the end of next year, as I do not see Holland going anywhere.

Also don't forget the bottom 6 Kostin and Janmark were farmed out for Ryan and Shore. That was Woodcroft's decision.
 

5 Mins 4 Ftg

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It ain't happening.
If anything, the ones that need to be out of this organization consist of two people.

1) Ken Holland
2) Bob Nicholson

Nicholson alone has done what exactly for this organization other than a shit burger and blaming one player for the Oilers not making the playoffs? I mean he did also choose to hire his hockey Canada buddy in Holland. Typical dinosaurs hiring dinosaurs.

Agree. But we are in the here and now and the sun is setting on Draisaitl's contract and I doubt he will be back. In fact, if he isn't willing to resign with 1 season left, then he will probably be traded, so that gives us this season and next to make a run.

Woody cant get out of his own way right now with simple decisions as lineup cards and has reverted to broken systems that do not work for this team.

My guess is you hire Trotz now, show the team you're not f***ing around anymore, and hopefully he takes us far, causing Draisaitl to want to take a hometown discount and resign for another 8 years. (which I doubt happens anyway as he has been vastly underpaid on this deal.)

But I make my bet with Trotz and cut Woody loose.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
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As I said, you can change GMs all you want. That wont save the season. Trotz has shown he can do it so why would you not?

Lots of talk about changing GMs here. Sure that is a huge issue however, it wont change anything as there are no players coming in to save the season.

In 3 years there is a huge chance Draisaitl signs with someone like the Kings who will have $10M plus the cap increase to a free agent contract we cant match.

We have this season and 2 more to make this a cup winner. A new GM isn't going to be able to draft and trade their way out of this. However a coach like Trotz can make a hard run now, not wait.

Objectively it seems to me to be the only way forward until Hollands contract expires at the end of next year, as I do not see Holland going anywhere.

Also don't forget the bottom 6 Kostin and Janmark were farmed out for Ryan and Shore. That was Woodcroft's decision.
I'm not sure even Barry Trotz could work miracles with the dregs on the blueline or in the bottom six. That the issues that plagued the Oilers since before Holland was hired are still present to me states a bigger issue. An org that scouts and drafts terribly, that refuses to "squeeze other GMs", that can't find good cheap options either up front or on the blue line.

We picked up two Leaf castoffs for the blueline and sure enough they look exactly like Leaf castoffs. The Leaf castoff in net is even worse. Barry Trotz isn't going to suddenly fix Jack Campbell, or make Ceci a top pairing D....
 
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MoontoScott

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Jun 2, 2012
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As I said, you can change GMs all you want. That wont save the season. Trotz has shown he can do it so why would you not?

Lots of talk about changing GMs here. Sure that is a huge issue however, it wont change anything as there are no players coming in to save the season.

In 3 years there is a huge chance Draisaitl signs with someone like the Kings who will have $10M plus the cap increase to a free agent contract we cant match.

We have this season and 2 more to make this a cup winner. A new GM isn't going to be able to draft and trade their way out of this. However a coach like Trotz can make a hard run now, not wait.

Objectively it seems to me to be the only way forward until Hollands contract expires at the end of next year, as I do not see Holland going anywhere.

Also don't forget the bottom 6 Kostin and Janmark were farmed out for Ryan and Shore. That was Woodcroft's decision.
I certainly agree that Woody has made some mistakes but I think its a "structural" problem that has been with the club for a very long time. As someone said in the thread, would a new coach go anywhere with the performance we are seeing from the D-men and the bottom 6? Possibly but I think its a low probability.
 

5 Mins 4 Ftg

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I'm not sure even Barry Trotz could work miracles with the dregs on the blueline or in the bottom six. That the issues that plagued the Oilers since before Holland was hired are still present to me states a bigger issue. An org that scouts and drafts terribly, that refuses to "squeeze other GMs", that can't find good cheap options either up front or on the blue line.

We picked up two Leaf castoffs for the blueline and sure enough they look exactly like Leaf castoffs. The Leaf castoff in net is even worse. Barry Trotz isn't going to suddenly fix Jack Campbell, or make Ceci a top pairing D....

Agree on Holland but everywhere Trotz goes the D and goalies improve. Everwhere, all the time. Its because he insists you play a certain way and there is the issue.

The issue is how you choose to play. You can lock it down and not give 50 shots a night and say in your press conference "there was nothing we could do about it, they are a volume shooting team" or you could present a system and gameplan that suppresses shots and doesn't allow for easy extensive odd man rushes and breakaways.

You play a tighter disciplined structured game and with our top end talent you should be able to win far more often than lose.
 

5 Mins 4 Ftg

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You turf Holland before you turf the coach, full stop.

Totally disagree for reasons in the OP. A new GM isn't going to do anything now as teams are made in the summer and the lack of cap space we and most other teams have freezes the trade market.

A new coach like Trotz can make immediate on ice changes that produce immediate results.

Fire Holland later. Fire Woody and hire Trotz now.
 

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