Upperdeckjet
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- Dec 14, 2011
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Player Discussion: Winnipeg Jets Defense
- Thread starter voyageur
- Start date
Ville is in tough spot. He just doesn’t match up well physically against a big physical team/line like Boston or Vegas can throw out there. If Jets just had Ville at his size (weight), it would not be a problem but they have too many d under 200 lbs. Opponents must see that as an opportunity to exploit against the Jets.
When Samberg comes back, Ville becomes the extra dman. Since he’s no longer waivers exempt, do the Jets pull the trigger on a deal and include Heinola in the move?
Say Perfetti+Heinola for Cozens?
When Samberg comes back, Ville becomes the extra dman. Since he’s no longer waivers exempt, do the Jets pull the trigger on a deal and include Heinola in the move?
Say Perfetti+Heinola for Cozens?
- Feb 24, 2015
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Samberg has come a long way.
Always liked him, a lot of HF was pretty down on him until very recently.
He’s very important to us now.
Always liked him, a lot of HF was pretty down on him until very recently.
He’s very important to us now.
Keep Tiny get rid of stretch
Buffdog
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- Feb 13, 2019
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Even though thd Jets ultimately lost Kovacevic in 2022, the decision was made when they aquired Schmidt inbthe summer of 2021. Once they did that, the right side was essentially set for a few years. Remember... they were a removed from having Tucker Poolman as their 2RHD.
At that point, Kovacevic had all of 75 games of AHL experience as a pro. Had they NOT acquired Schmidt, they would have needed another stop-gap plug for the right side until they felt Kovacevic was ready. I think that's what Chevy was avoiding
Yeah well he's had 7 games this year coming off ankle surgery - 5 of those playing on his offside with the 6'7" Wonder while the team was in the shitter. That's all the rope he gets. Waive him.
- Feb 24, 2015
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voyageur
Hockey fanatic
- Jul 10, 2011
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Jets got Heinola on a two year deal. Which is one more than Niku got. So I think given the Jets history he stays that long. If nothing else he's an offensive buffer, capable of running the PP, if one of the Jets top 2 d-man went down. Without pushing that expectation on Salomonsson, who is given time to develop.
He's #5 on the LHD depth chart, with no one challenging that spot, being given a chance as the #3 RD, and maybe he gets more time in that spot, but he's going to get competition too. Arniel said he was a fan of his, so I wouldn't write him off yet. I'd expect him to get quite a few games in that heavy January home stretch.
But I do agree that the general size of this defense works against a player like him. Also that Morrissey is so damn good that you don't want him killing penalties, and Ville has to get that rope before he can climb up the ladder. Might never make it to the top rung, but draft and develop has given the team at least 4 d-men that they can use this year.
I don't think Namestnikov is getting replaced if he stays healthy. His numbers are better than a lot of 2Cs around the league, and it's not just Ehlers either, he's doing some things now without him. But the defensive side of his game is probably better than a lot of players that could be seen as potential replacements, and last night's game was to me an indication of how much the defensive side of playing center ice is important to Arniel.
Cozens would probably come in as 2RW, and the Jets are more likely to stick it out with what they know. Since the Jets MO is giving players time to grow. Develop chemistry.
Definitely one of those guys though that you wonder how good they will be once they get out of Buffalo.
I think Heinola is going to have to start showing what makes him so attractive to posters around here on a consistent basis.
He's still getting up to speed after a long layoff and has really minimal NHL experience, so it's not going to happen overnight. I think the Jets keep easing him in, but at this point in his career he needs to kick the door down and he'll do that by consistently doing the things that make him a great prospect. He's going to have to stop playing so timid, which is easier said than done when a couple of mistakes can send you to the pressbox.
However, at the end of the day, it will be up to Ville himself to manage that and find a way. If he can't do it here, maybe he finds a place where he knows he's going to play and make some mistakes, and the team isn't vying for a cup, they're just rebuilding.
He's still getting up to speed after a long layoff and has really minimal NHL experience, so it's not going to happen overnight. I think the Jets keep easing him in, but at this point in his career he needs to kick the door down and he'll do that by consistently doing the things that make him a great prospect. He's going to have to stop playing so timid, which is easier said than done when a couple of mistakes can send you to the pressbox.
However, at the end of the day, it will be up to Ville himself to manage that and find a way. If he can't do it here, maybe he finds a place where he knows he's going to play and make some mistakes, and the team isn't vying for a cup, they're just rebuilding.
It's a catch 22. Like you say, he has to kick the door down (aka perform MUCH better than Stanley to steal his spot). At the same time, he has to play *with* Stanley, on his off-side, and not make any big mistakes. When what he needs in his career right now is the freedom to figure out what works for his game and what doesn't.
It sucks but they have Fleury who fits more of a 3rd pair PK role than Ville. It's nice they are giving Ville a run and consistent games.
It feels like he is being given a chance to show what he has to offer. But not a real chance in the sense that they are seeing how he performs in the role Stanley is in.
He isn't getting a real chance if he isn't killing penalties.
Colin Miller is performing well on the 3rd pair, probably a fringe top 4 guy. Asking Ville to beat him out is a tall order. Asking him to do it beside Stanley? He is being thrown in the deep end and that just doesn't work.
His best bet is to get a extended run in a rebuilding team's top four and see what he can offer.
Should have just kept Dillon and swapped him and Samberg. He is exactly what we want to have from Stanley and aren't getting. Easy to say now I guess. But man I wish that guy was still here. Him and Miller would be a perfect 3rd pair.
Yeah I see Cousins being brought in as a wing. You aren't getting extra value having a guy at C vs W if he sucks defensively. He may be paid too highly right now, but players with his skill at that size aren't available if they don't have a wart or two.
Yup it's just been a really bad fit for Ville on top of a series of really unforunate events and bad timing.
I have no doubt he will become a serviceable D in the NHL - but it's looking less and less likely it'll be on the Jets, unfortunately.
Never mind that Pionk has also been total ass when paired with Stanley (and even when not paired with Samberg..)
Pretty much. Some of it is bad luck for sure.
The Jets have specific roles they want filled by specific slots in their lineup. Ville just isn't a lot right now. Feels more like he is being showcased with ice time, but not in a way that will draw another team to him.
At least he is getting a chance to kick down the door as you say. This team isn't in development mode right now, so I get it.
One of those "unfortunate" events is the self-inflicted sunk cost fallacy of pouring endless resources into The Stanley Project. I think if Heinola was ever given anything close to that kind of rope he'd be a very good NHL'er, just my feeling though. I don't disagree it looks unlikely it will be with us.
yup. unsure when we will ever see someone with such marginal upside get that long of a rope. it's not like we're comparing a 5th round player vs 1st either, they're both 1sts. Stanley is in 9th year with the team, so many excuses have been chalked for him, and yet has not shown much other than a 3rd pair/PB guy. i am not even high on heinola but hopefully he, & other similarly drafted prospects, get a similar level of rope or opportunity here
Yep.
I think he'll find his way, but likely with another team.
But we'll be fine with Big Stan, who brings the 6'7" and probs just needs another few hundred games to hit that ceiling of just about replacement-level LHD. And can lose a fight if he needs to.
Crocket
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- Jul 14, 2013
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It's a shame because Stanley made a bad play for the first Vegas goal coming out of the corner, where Ville shines making an exit or pass. Stanley fired it towards KFC and Vegas recovered it, scoring right away.
Having size is great, moving the puck is a necessity.
Having size is great, moving the puck is a necessity.
voyageur
Hockey fanatic
- Jul 10, 2011
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Total ass would have the puck going in against him more than the puck going in with him. But that isn't happening. Maybe the Jets need to stop playing with a lead to get those shot totals up?
Buffdog
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- Feb 13, 2019
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Having some size helps you get the puck to be able to move it
Not a comment on Stanley vs Heinola, just an observation. I'd take an average sized guy with average puck movement skills over a big guy who can't make a pass or a little guy that can't win a battle
Pionk measures out well so far this season, no mater what advanced stat you look at. He is right up there with our top forwards on 5 on 5 GF/60 of 2.96, with a GF% of 56.25%. Bottom line is the Jets score more then they give up 5-5 with Pionk on the ice.
- Dec 29, 2016
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Does he measure out well regardless of who he plays with?
Just a question - not provoking.
Him and Fleury are above water 5-4 in their 12 games together in goals. They are 43% in shot attempts.
Pionk and Samberg were up 18-14 in goals with 54% in shot attempts.
So hard to complain. All anyone could reasonably ask for with these two in the top four is to hang in there without killing us for a good chunk of time and they've done that.
Pionk is producing offensively really well this season so he is pulling his weight.
- Dec 29, 2016
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Thanks for this -
I've always wondered about expectations and how we compare dmen when paired with others.
Especially guys making $6M - should the bar be set a little higher than "good enough so they are not killing us"?
Edit: still not provoking
I've made my opinion known on this already, haha. My answer to your question at the end would be "yes."
I hope Neal has a career year for us and I hope he isn't extended at anything close to his current price. His skill set is just too easily replaceable even if he does add some value.
You can find D with good offense/scoring scoring + mediocre-to-weak transition/defense with good PP2 contributions for cheap every year
Just my opinion
He does best with Samberg, but both do worse without each other. With both Morrissey and Fleury a little worse. Not enough time with Stanley to really say but the 10 minutes together they have a xGF% of 86.85%, but no actual goals either way. Overall Pionk rates out in the top half of the team on most measures. He certainly isn't a liability for us statistic wise.
