Winnipeg Jets: 11,226 Attendance tonight, cause for concern? What's going on in the 'Peg?

[ORRFForever]

What universe are you living in?

 

[The Burdened]

Atlanta averaged 13,400 the season the team was taken away

 

[ijuka]

Lower the ticket prices and the arena's full again. When people have less buying power, you need to lower the prices. But of course, the businesses don't do this, so they instead sell even higher, then go bankrupt when people, surprise surprise, cannot afford it.

 

[dj4aces]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-jets-deal-the-investors-who-made-it-happen-1.1054220

I should have clarified, I suppose, that I agree with you. However, I see where people are getting the idea that Thomson owns the team.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

Atlanta averaged 13,400 the season the team was taken away

And that was an ownership in Atlanta that did everything to sabotage the Thrashers...

 

[Roland of Gilead]

After Laine gone, Winnipeg was gone too. Everybody knows it, at least I hope they know. So stupid trade, stubborn to make Wheeler happy. Laine was the reason, why ppl were at the Life Centre, like Selanne years before at 90's, they wanted to see goals. Winnipeg did it again. You can make many excuses but the main reason is the main goal scorer gone. So stop excuses please.

 

[the paisanos guy]

Atlanta averaged 13,400 the season the team was taken away

And what was the cost per ticket? Bit of an important factor in the revenue equation

 

[Gnashville]

And what was the cost per ticket? Bit of an important factor in the revenue equation

Actually not far from what The Jets charge for tickets.

 

[bumblebeeman]

Actually not far from what The Jets charge for tickets.

You sure about that? NHL Winnipeg Jets average ticket price 2005/06-2014/15 | Statista

 

[FlyguyOX]

Atlanta averaged more than that their entire existence.

Move the team back

 

[Gnashville]

You sure about that? NHL Winnipeg Jets average ticket price 2005/06-2014/15 | Statista

The way “average” ticket prices are calculated is suspect at times along with the “resale” value vs what the face value is. Currently the cheapest face value ticket in Winnipeg is $26 US.

 

[bumblebeeman]

The way “average” ticket prices are calculated is suspect at times along with the “resale” value vs what the face value is. Currently the cheapest face value ticket in Winnipeg is $26 US.

So where are you getting your trusted data from? What makes you trust it more than my source?

 

[Cleatus]

After Laine gone, Winnipeg was gone too. Everybody knows it, at least I hope they know. So stupid trade, stubborn to make Wheeler happy. Laine was the reason, why ppl were at the Life Centre, like Selanne years before at 90's, they wanted to see goals. Winnipeg did it again. You can make many excuses but the main reason is the main goal scorer gone. So stop excuses please.

Ah yes, Laine's 20-25 goals and 50 games played a season would totally help with fan attendance.

 

[Gnashville]

So where are you getting your trusted data from? What makes you trust it more than my source?

https://www.ticketmaster.ca/event/11005F1DBA624184

Jets ticket website

 

[robertocarlos]

We don't like Vegas.

 

[robertocarlos]

New Mexico Jets
Houston Jets
Brampton Jets
Utah Jets
Kansas City Jets
Atlanta Jets

Pick one.

In 10 years they'll be the London City Jets or the Mexico City Jets. Sold for $3 billion USD.

 

[haulinbass]

Canadians just aren't dedicated to hockey, bunch of bandwagon fans.

 

[dj4aces]

So where are you getting your trusted data from? What makes you trust it more than my source?

I think what would help is if we had the source to your source. That page is just a graph with some numbers on it, and at the bottom a request for money (US$199!) for "detailed references".

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. This is not to say that your stats aren't posted here with honest intentions, nor is it to say the averages as posted aren't true. But with no access to the source material, one can't objectively view the graph and agree (or disagree, for that matter) with the conclusion that it makes. Statistics, after all, can be made to say anything the author wants them to.

Without paying to access the "detailed references", what're the actual sources?

 

[bumblebeeman]

I think what would help is if we had the source to your source. That page is just a graph with some numbers on it, and at the bottom a request for money (US$199!) for "detailed references".

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. This is not to say that your stats aren't posted here with honest intentions, nor is it to say the averages as posted aren't true. But with no access to the source material, one can't objectively view the graph and agree (or disagree, for that matter) with the conclusion that it makes. Statistics, after all, can be made to say anything the author wants them to.

Without paying to access the "detailed references", what're the actual sources?

It's honestly the only thing I could find, so really if the other poster had a link to how much Thrashers tickets were and we could compare it would be cool. But he doesn't, and I looked and it's not easy to find. He was just making stuff up.

 

[the paisanos guy]

Atlanta averaged more than that their entire existence.

Move the team back

do you understand how averages work

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Sort of related.

I got eggs bread milk and butter today. Cost me $30.

Generic brand groceries, not organic high grade shit. Compliments brand.

Oh, and my property tax went from $3000 to $10,000 since the start of the pandemic. And when my fixed term mortgage rate is up in march, we will owe a $1500 higher mortgage payment per month.

I sure as shit didn't get a $40k raise to compensate for my annual housing cost increase.


So yeah. Even though I'm north of $200k I'm living close to paycheque to paycheque, and I haven't seen a live hockey game in 4 years.

Won't be going anytime soon.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I'd like to build off of this post a bit. No specific issue taken with anything said, it's just a good leaping off point.

I'm currently a Jets STH and have been since the Jets returned in 2011, being fortunate enough to get in without connections on the first day. My seats are categorized as "P3" which is to say, lower bowl but not premium. My cost per seat, per game is $125 CAD (yes, a bargain after you convert to USD but please try to recall that we get paid in CAD, not USD so there is no conversion for us). I run a group of people that all contribute to the tickets and we draft our games in September, prior to the season. I have 15 of 44 home games as the majority "shareholder".

There are a number of factors for the declining attendance, most all have been addressed here. Unquestionably inflation is playing a huge role and the concurrent increases in either rental pricing or increased mortgage rates (Canadians cannot deduct the interest from their mortgages, as can happen in many U.S. states).

When the Jets first arrived the target was 13,000 season ticket holders. The arena only holds 15xxx seats so about 85% of capacity was STH. They hit that target easily and for several years they were fine. Obviously we're now at attendance of approximately 11500 or so and though I have no way of confirming, I'd guess that's probably 95% or better STH. I say that because there's very little in the way of walk up purchases and Winnipeggers are inherently cheap, they will look for a way to get a cheaper ticket. Those cheaper tickets, which have been shown in this thread, are being sold by STH, not by TNSE.

The walk up market, I would contend, is what has been hit most by inflation. Currently that appears to be about 2000-4000 seats and I would say that it is reasonable to attribute that to inflationary causes in part. The Jets have never been viewed as an inexpensive option for a family of 4 in Winnipeg. But pre-Covid/inflation it was doable. Plus the STH numbers were higher.

So the bigger issue that Winnipeg is facing is the bleeding of STH. Part of that can be attributed to a relative lack of large corporate community in Winnipeg compared to larger centers, be they Canadian or U.S. Box sales seem to be doing well enough and I honestly don't know if they factor into attendance numbers or not. That means the regular 100/200/300 level seats are the biggest issue.

I can tell you that I likely will not be a STH next season. This is not related to the product on the ice. I understand the market realities of a team in Winnipeg - we are the least desirable market to play for in the NHL. I also understand the dislike of Chevy and what has been achieved. I try to relate that to the context of the market, but I am of the opinion that TNSE is too loyal to a fault and do not operate the team in a truly professional (or unprofessional, depending on your perspective) manner, trying too hard to be a "family" when they are in reality a business. Vegas being the counterpoint - being cold and efficient - but Vegas can be due to their market realities. Very desirable place to be, strength in performance centered around winning, something players actually want to have happen.

So why not be a STH? Several reasons:
- many in my group are no longer interested. The tickets are not inexpensive (the seats are great for game view/experience) but they see resale seats at much cheaper rates and no risk of being stuck in our draft with a preseason game ($250 for the pair of seats). They can pick or choose the games they want.
- several mini-packs available. The way our group drafts, if you only have five games, it largely works out like the mini-packs that give you 1 A game 3 B games 1 C game (A game is original six usually, B game is higher tier teams with stars, C game is lower tier teams, poor draws). pricing is very similar
- price increases on an annual basis, regardless of how team performs. In the inaugural season we paid just a shade under $7000 for our two seats. We are now at $11160. First season was 45 games, this season was 44 games (they reduced the number of preseason games by 1). Rest assured nobody's wage increased in lock step with that rate of increase.

Behavior of TNSE towards STH is a huge factor as well. I'll relate a couple of my stories that I've waded through:
In 2017 I was diagnosed with stage 4 oral cancer. As the lead of the STH group I didn't want my group to lose the seats should I not make it through treatment. I reached out to our ticket rep to have the name on the file changed. They said sure, no problem, so long as we paid the transfer fee on each seat - $750 at the time per seat. Thanks for your compassion. At the same time, I had a vacation for Hawaii planned and had to cancel the flight and condo rental. Both of those organizations couldn't send the money back to us any faster. We weren't dumping the tickets, we weren't making any sneaky changes to other people not on the wait list, it was the same damn group of people. We left the tickets in my name and I've been fortunate enough to be around still.

In 2011 when we first got the seats, we were disappointed with the location. We were told it was our only option, take it or leave it and with the demand, they weren't wrong. But we had the option of putting in a relocation request. At the start of each season I'd put in that relocation request. Each time I asked about relocation, the ticket rep would say they have nothing on file - as in no request from me. I took to making the request four times per year and forwarding each previous request with it. In 2018, in the Jets forum on this board and individual indicated they had been relocated from the 300 level to section 120, one of the sections I had requested to move to. I contacted my ticket rep to ask how this happened and they told me that it never happened and I was making stuff up. I reached out to the board member and he was very kind, giving me his old seat numbers, row and section, along with the same information in his new section, along with his full name. I provided that to the ticket rep and within a week I was moved to section 103, basically the equivalent section on the other side of the ice. But they basically called me a liar until I provided documented proof of exactly the move that had happened. I was paying higher prices and a lower priority than someone else to them. This was a completely different experience from how the local CFL team had done things for decades - they had priority ranking for STH, even in the era of rotary dial phones and hand written spreadsheets. TNSE just didn't give a crap.

For the Vegas game last night I checked my section to see what the Jets had for sale for tickets. I could find pairs of tickets in my section for $129 +$12 in fees. If you recall from the top of this verbose post my cost is $125. $4 and fees is the difference in price to sit in my section being a STH or not. Plus I get the benefit of paying $750 for three meaningless preseason games (and I like those a lot more than most as I like seeing the kids play, but I can wait till they go to the Moose and see them for $25).

At a Kings game last year I sat beside a Kings fan that was retired and was going around seeing the Kings at every arena, very cool. He was super to talk to and very interested in the Jets/Thrashers/Coyotes history. I asked him what he paid? $80 including a hot dog and a beer. I paid $122 last season.

When we've had the rare occasion to have to try and sell tickets, we've gone through the official Jets resale site. What we found is that as game time approached and our seats weren't selling, seats owned by the Jets were decreased in price, undercutting our price. We cannot sell for a price lower than the STH price we pay. But TNSE can. Just like the Kings fan got his tickets off ticketmaster for $80, had I chose to sell that game I would have had to list mine at $122, no hot dog, no beer. I can choose to sell them on other sites for less money, but that's technically a violation of my contract (rest assured, TNSE lets us know that) and we could lose our seats due to that violation.

My benefits for being a STH this year amounted to a vinyl collapsible cooler, BBQ apron and first right of refusal for playoff tickets, should they make it. For the price of three pre-season games I could have bought a Yeti of significant size.

They are largely unresponsive to any concerns you raise through your ticket rep. To put this in perspective, if this was a restaurant and I was treated as a guest the same way TNSE treats their STH, I wouldn't actually support that restaurant. I've done this with several restaurants in the past - they need to earn my business by providing a reasonable product and site experience. TNSE doesn't really do that and I think that's why they are bleeding STH. They started out thinking the fans owed them and they were in control. But now when the lustre has worn off they are paying the price in people walking away. I believe they treat the players and staff very well, but we're just their to pay and we haven't been really valued to this point, rather taken for granted. I don't believe they understand that yet.

Great post. My experience as a long time Canes STH hasn’t been quite that bad, but the principles are similar. There are some legitimately nice perks, mostly to do with access to events. There’s a veneer of hospitality. But the reality is that you’re spending an absolute ****load to get those little perks. Otherwise you’re little more than an ATM to the organization.

This is my last STH season after 15 years, for personal reasons and not to do with the team, and I’m feeling a strange palpable relief that I don’t have to do it anymore. It shouldn’t feel that way, not if it’s an actual “family” experience with lots of value for the money.

 

[Barnum]

Sort of related.

I got eggs bread milk and butter today. Cost me $30.

Generic brand groceries, not organic high grade shit. Compliments brand.

Oh, and my property tax went from $3000 to $10,000 since the start of the pandemic. And when my fixed term mortgage rate is up in march, we will owe a $1500 higher mortgage payment per month.

I sure as shit didn't get a $40k raise to compensate for my annual housing cost increase.


So yeah. Even though I'm north of $200k I'm living close to paycheque to paycheque, and I haven't seen a live hockey game in 4 years.

Won't be going anytime soon.

Not believing this at all. There’s your current COL prices for ordinary items. If you paid 30 bucks than you might want to shop elsewhere.

According to this, it should have cost you about 11 Canuck bucks. That’s the average for Montreal.

Cost of Living in Montreal

Average prices of more than 40 products and services in Montreal, CanadaOct 2024. Prices of restaurants, food, transportation, utilities and housing are included.

www.numbeo.com

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

The way “average” ticket prices are calculated is suspect at times along with the “resale” value vs what the face value is. Currently the cheapest face value ticket in Winnipeg is $26 US.

The cheapest face value (non-resale) on your link is $54 CAD, or $40 US, plus $9 in fees. You're not adding to the discussion by posting things that are incorrect.

Regardless, TNSE put themselves in a jam. They can't lower ticket prices for walk-ups across the board or they'll lose more STHs that are paying more per game, for more games. They asked too much from STHs and walked themselves into this trap, they can't sell more tickets immediately without taking a hit down the road.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

When you've lost Canada it might be time to pack up, NHL.