Winnipeg Jets: 11,226 Attendance tonight, cause for concern? What's going on in the 'Peg?

[BE Friend]

When does the :
"The Jets need a new arena." narrative start?

 

[Yukon Joe]

Of course they are building a hub around the arena, I get that. But your point was "Chipman/Thomson are willing to cover millions of dollars in loses on the Jets because it helps prop up their real estate business downtown" I just don't see the correlation.

Like I said before, if the Jets leave companies will still rent the offices at TNS as they are some of the nicest office space in the City. If the Jets leave, people will still rent the apartments. If the Jets leave, people will still go to medical appointments at the new Portage Place development.

Ownership doesn't need to cover millions in loses on the NHL side for the real estate portion of their business to still operate.

If Chipman/Thomson want to cover millions in loses its because they enjoy owning the team and believe they could turn it around in the future. That would be the sole reason in my opinion. Lots of sports team owners do it for the love of the game, notoriety, etc. rather than making yearly revenue.

I literally said the opposite:

Now I don't bring that up to say "so therefore he doesn't care if the Jets lose money". Definitely not.

My point is that Chipman/Thomson may be willing to accept some amount of losses from the Jets if they're making more money elsewhere, but that certainly is not without limit.

TNS may be the nicest office space in Winnipeg, but it's an awful lot nicer to be next to an arena that is full (or mostly full) 77 times per year NHL+AHL) then if it is only an AHL arena.

When does the :
"The Jets need a new arena." narrative start?

Never.

You have no idea how traumatic the last arena debate was. Winnipeg literally lost the Jets over it.

CLC is small, but as we're seeing you wouldn't want a bigger arena anyways. TNSE gets a specific subsidy from the government that is used to make upgrades every single year to the arena. There's also no location in Winnipeg that would be better then where the rink is now - plus there has been a ton of RE development by the team owners in areas around the rink.

 

[dj4aces]

Businesses have been pushing the knife into consumers and their employees under the guise of inflation for months now. It’s all fighting for margin as long as possible.

The cure for high prices is high prices.

I'd argue it's been happening for decades. It's just a lot more noticeable now because it's not just the knife being pushed in. The knife is being twisted.

He's right. The product and organization are stale. Just squeaking into the playoffs for the playoff revenue doesn't count. The playin doesn't count. Any other organization would have fired their GM and done a rebuild. I'd watch again if they fired Chevy and did a rebuild.

They very well may be right that the product is stale. It's still an excuse for not supporting a team that does have some recent playoff success, regardless of how good or not the product may actually be. Furthermore, one can't argue consistently that Atlanta doesn't "deserve" a team when that's one of the excuses that's gonna be dragged out regarding dwindling support in Winnipeg.

Between posts here and on Reddit, there's a lot of former Jets STHers who say they dropped their tickets due to rising prices and the "veiled threat of relocation" (there's a BoH thread on that, too). I think that has far more of an impact in all this than even inflation, a continued rise in prices, or the perceived quality of the team on the ice.

Fans are sitting on their wallets due to a myriad of factors. Quite frankly, I approve. Not because I want Jets 2.0 to fail in Winnipeg, but because consumers are standing up for what they believe and what they feel, and are hoping the financial pinch and,embarrassment (let's face it, 4k+ empty seats looks terrible on TV) spurs the ownership into action to get more fans into the building. However, if you're going to sit on your wallets and come up with reasons like COVID policies or stale product to justify not buying tickets, you really have no leg to stand on if you're going to claim another market doesn't "deserve" a team.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Just wait until winter when it’s -43C with windchill in the Peg, no one will be going to home games.

 

[LadyJet26]

I'd argue it's been happening for decades. It's just a lot more noticeable now because it's not just the knife being pushed in. The knife is being twisted.


They very well may be right that the product is stale. It's still an excuse for not supporting a team that does have some recent playoff success, regardless of how good or not the product may actually be. Furthermore, one can't argue consistently that Atlanta doesn't "deserve" a team when that's one of the excuses that's gonna be dragged out regarding dwindling support in Winnipeg.

Between posts here and on Reddit, there's a lot of former Jets STHers who say they dropped their tickets due to rising prices and the "veiled threat of relocation" (there's a BoH thread on that, too). I think that has far more of an impact in all this than even inflation, a continued rise in prices, or the perceived quality of the team on the ice.

Fans are sitting on their wallets due to a myriad of factors. Quite frankly, I approve. Not because I want Jets 2.0 to fail in Winnipeg, but because consumers are standing up for what they believe and what they feel, and are hoping the financial pinch and,embarrassment (let's face it, 4k+ empty seats looks terrible on TV) spurs the ownership into action to get more fans into the building. However, if you're going to sit on your wallets and come up with reasons like COVID policies or stale product to justify not buying tickets, you really have no leg to stand on if you're going to claim another market doesn't "deserve" a team.

I gave reasons why I think it's stale. And that Chevy has been here 12 years and has one deep playoff run and hid the fact that someone got sexually assaulted while he was apart of the Hawks. It's flat out complacency with mediocrity that ticks me off. The Jets organization is completely out to lunch on how to run an organization

 

[End on a Hinote]

Never.

You have no idea how traumatic the last arena debate was. Winnipeg literally lost the Jets over it.

It was one of a few factors. A lightning in a bottle scenario of old arena, low dollar, skyrocketing salaries.

Coincidentally, it was a lightning in a bottle if positives that contributed to their return.



As for the current attendance situation, it's early in the season. Times are tough, cost of living has leaped thanks to soy-boy Justin. People simply can't make sports a priority right now, especially in a city where tickets are as pricey as they are in Winnipeg.

And maybe the fact that players are more and more open about not wanting to play in Canada, especially in a small market as cold as Winnipeg. Along with the fact that 6 of the last 8 SC finalists have come out of warm, tax free states may be making some Canadian fans lose hope that their team has any realistic chance of ever competing for a Cup. I know I have.

 

[StreetHawk]

I gave reasons why I think it's stale. And that Chevy has been here 12 years and has one deep playoff run and hid the fact that someone got sexually assaulted while he was apart of the Hawks. It's flat out complacency with mediocrity that ticks me off. The Jets organization is completely out to lunch on how to run an organization

The 2018 run to the WCF was supposed to be the springboard for the team. They were supposed to be contenders the past 5 years and nothing really.

Winnipeg's window to win is always going to be small. They are very much an all in and then reboot franchise.

That would have meant Scheiffle, Helly, Ehlers and Connor all gone within a year from now. Ehlers UFA in 2025 and Connor in 2026. But, really, they don't have much high end coming up. So, probably going to be stagnant for a while.

I don't know how ownership doesn't respond to declining corporate ticket sales until it drops 75%. Seems like the Jets franchise took things for granted after the return and the long waiting list.

 

[buggs]

I'd argue it's been happening for decades. It's just a lot more noticeable now because it's not just the knife being pushed in. The knife is being twisted.


They very well may be right that the product is stale. It's still an excuse for not supporting a team that does have some recent playoff success, regardless of how good or not the product may actually be. Furthermore, one can't argue consistently that Atlanta doesn't "deserve" a team when that's one of the excuses that's gonna be dragged out regarding dwindling support in Winnipeg.

Between posts here and on Reddit, there's a lot of former Jets STHers who say they dropped their tickets due to rising prices and the "veiled threat of relocation" (there's a BoH thread on that, too). I think that has far more of an impact in all this than even inflation, a continued rise in prices, or the perceived quality of the team on the ice.

Fans are sitting on their wallets due to a myriad of factors. Quite frankly, I approve. Not because I want Jets 2.0 to fail in Winnipeg, but because consumers are standing up for what they believe and what they feel, and are hoping the financial pinch and,embarrassment (let's face it, 4k+ empty seats looks terrible on TV) spurs the ownership into action to get more fans into the building. However, if you're going to sit on your wallets and come up with reasons like COVID policies or stale product to justify not buying tickets, you really have no leg to stand on if you're going to claim another market doesn't "deserve" a team.

I'd like to build off of this post a bit. No specific issue taken with anything said, it's just a good leaping off point.

I'm currently a Jets STH and have been since the Jets returned in 2011, being fortunate enough to get in without connections on the first day. My seats are categorized as "P3" which is to say, lower bowl but not premium. My cost per seat, per game is $125 CAD (yes, a bargain after you convert to USD but please try to recall that we get paid in CAD, not USD so there is no conversion for us). I run a group of people that all contribute to the tickets and we draft our games in September, prior to the season. I have 15 of 44 home games as the majority "shareholder".

There are a number of factors for the declining attendance, most all have been addressed here. Unquestionably inflation is playing a huge role and the concurrent increases in either rental pricing or increased mortgage rates (Canadians cannot deduct the interest from their mortgages, as can happen in many U.S. states).

When the Jets first arrived the target was 13,000 season ticket holders. The arena only holds 15xxx seats so about 85% of capacity was STH. They hit that target easily and for several years they were fine. Obviously we're now at attendance of approximately 11500 or so and though I have no way of confirming, I'd guess that's probably 95% or better STH. I say that because there's very little in the way of walk up purchases and Winnipeggers are inherently cheap, they will look for a way to get a cheaper ticket. Those cheaper tickets, which have been shown in this thread, are being sold by STH, not by TNSE.

The walk up market, I would contend, is what has been hit most by inflation. Currently that appears to be about 2000-4000 seats and I would say that it is reasonable to attribute that to inflationary causes in part. The Jets have never been viewed as an inexpensive option for a family of 4 in Winnipeg. But pre-Covid/inflation it was doable. Plus the STH numbers were higher.

So the bigger issue that Winnipeg is facing is the bleeding of STH. Part of that can be attributed to a relative lack of large corporate community in Winnipeg compared to larger centers, be they Canadian or U.S. Box sales seem to be doing well enough and I honestly don't know if they factor into attendance numbers or not. That means the regular 100/200/300 level seats are the biggest issue.

I can tell you that I likely will not be a STH next season. This is not related to the product on the ice. I understand the market realities of a team in Winnipeg - we are the least desirable market to play for in the NHL. I also understand the dislike of Chevy and what has been achieved. I try to relate that to the context of the market, but I am of the opinion that TNSE is too loyal to a fault and do not operate the team in a truly professional (or unprofessional, depending on your perspective) manner, trying too hard to be a "family" when they are in reality a business. Vegas being the counterpoint - being cold and efficient - but Vegas can be due to their market realities. Very desirable place to be, strength in performance centered around winning, something players actually want to have happen.

So why not be a STH? Several reasons:
- many in my group are no longer interested. The tickets are not inexpensive (the seats are great for game view/experience) but they see resale seats at much cheaper rates and no risk of being stuck in our draft with a preseason game ($250 for the pair of seats). They can pick or choose the games they want.
- several mini-packs available. The way our group drafts, if you only have five games, it largely works out like the mini-packs that give you 1 A game 3 B games 1 C game (A game is original six usually, B game is higher tier teams with stars, C game is lower tier teams, poor draws). pricing is very similar
- price increases on an annual basis, regardless of how team performs. In the inaugural season we paid just a shade under $7000 for our two seats. We are now at $11160. First season was 45 games, this season was 44 games (they reduced the number of preseason games by 1). Rest assured nobody's wage increased in lock step with that rate of increase.

Behavior of TNSE towards STH is a huge factor as well. I'll relate a couple of my stories that I've waded through:
In 2017 I was diagnosed with stage 4 oral cancer. As the lead of the STH group I didn't want my group to lose the seats should I not make it through treatment. I reached out to our ticket rep to have the name on the file changed. They said sure, no problem, so long as we paid the transfer fee on each seat - $750 at the time per seat. Thanks for your compassion. At the same time, I had a vacation for Hawaii planned and had to cancel the flight and condo rental. Both of those organizations couldn't send the money back to us any faster. We weren't dumping the tickets, we weren't making any sneaky changes to other people not on the wait list, it was the same damn group of people. We left the tickets in my name and I've been fortunate enough to be around still.

In 2011 when we first got the seats, we were disappointed with the location. We were told it was our only option, take it or leave it and with the demand, they weren't wrong. But we had the option of putting in a relocation request. At the start of each season I'd put in that relocation request. Each time I asked about relocation, the ticket rep would say they have nothing on file - as in no request from me. I took to making the request four times per year and forwarding each previous request with it. In 2018, in the Jets forum on this board and individual indicated they had been relocated from the 300 level to section 120, one of the sections I had requested to move to. I contacted my ticket rep to ask how this happened and they told me that it never happened and I was making stuff up. I reached out to the board member and he was very kind, giving me his old seat numbers, row and section, along with the same information in his new section, along with his full name. I provided that to the ticket rep and within a week I was moved to section 103, basically the equivalent section on the other side of the ice. But they basically called me a liar until I provided documented proof of exactly the move that had happened. I was paying higher prices and a lower priority than someone else to them. This was a completely different experience from how the local CFL team had done things for decades - they had priority ranking for STH, even in the era of rotary dial phones and hand written spreadsheets. TNSE just didn't give a crap.

For the Vegas game last night I checked my section to see what the Jets had for sale for tickets. I could find pairs of tickets in my section for $129 +$12 in fees. If you recall from the top of this verbose post my cost is $125. $4 and fees is the difference in price to sit in my section being a STH or not. Plus I get the benefit of paying $750 for three meaningless preseason games (and I like those a lot more than most as I like seeing the kids play, but I can wait till they go to the Moose and see them for $25).

At a Kings game last year I sat beside a Kings fan that was retired and was going around seeing the Kings at every arena, very cool. He was super to talk to and very interested in the Jets/Thrashers/Coyotes history. I asked him what he paid? $80 including a hot dog and a beer. I paid $122 last season.

When we've had the rare occasion to have to try and sell tickets, we've gone through the official Jets resale site. What we found is that as game time approached and our seats weren't selling, seats owned by the Jets were decreased in price, undercutting our price. We cannot sell for a price lower than the STH price we pay. But TNSE can. Just like the Kings fan got his tickets off ticketmaster for $80, had I chose to sell that game I would have had to list mine at $122, no hot dog, no beer. I can choose to sell them on other sites for less money, but that's technically a violation of my contract (rest assured, TNSE lets us know that) and we could lose our seats due to that violation.

My benefits for being a STH this year amounted to a vinyl collapsible cooler, BBQ apron and first right of refusal for playoff tickets, should they make it. For the price of three pre-season games I could have bought a Yeti of significant size.

They are largely unresponsive to any concerns you raise through your ticket rep. To put this in perspective, if this was a restaurant and I was treated as a guest the same way TNSE treats their STH, I wouldn't actually support that restaurant. I've done this with several restaurants in the past - they need to earn my business by providing a reasonable product and site experience. TNSE doesn't really do that and I think that's why they are bleeding STH. They started out thinking the fans owed them and they were in control. But now when the lustre has worn off they are paying the price in people walking away. I believe they treat the players and staff very well, but we're just their to pay and we haven't been really valued to this point, rather taken for granted. I don't believe they understand that yet.

 

[dj4aces]

I gave reasons why I think it's stale. And that Chevy has been here 12 years and has one deep playoff run and hid the fact that someone got sexually assaulted while he was apart of the Hawks. It's flat out complacency with mediocrity that ticks me off. The Jets organization is completely out to lunch on how to run an organization

I neither agree nor disagree with your assessment of the Jets, as I really don't follow the team or their signings. The last player on that team I cared about was Byfuglien, in many ways because he was genuinely happy to come to Atlanta. I acknowledge that a stale team very well may be a factor for some fans, but I also feel that every fan staying away has their own set of grievances.

Personally, a tone-deaf allusion to relocation as a threat would keep me away.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

The Corporation I work for which is across Canada has boxes in Winnipeg/Ottawa/Toronto/Montreal. In Every city EXCEPT Winnipeg they also purchase anywhere form 30 to 50 Season tickets. Why they don't in Winnipeg is anyone's guess. Maybe they never were approached to do so but who really knows

 

[pigpen65]

Buffalo can't be any higher

 

[dj4aces]

I'd like to build off of this post a bit. No specific issue taken with anything said, it's just a good leaping off point.

I'm currently a Jets STH and have been since the Jets returned in 2011, being fortunate enough to get in without connections on the first day. My seats are categorized as "P3" which is to say, lower bowl but not premium. My cost per seat, per game is $125 CAD (yes, a bargain after you convert to USD but please try to recall that we get paid in CAD, not USD so there is no conversion for us). I run a group of people that all contribute to the tickets and we draft our games in September, prior to the season. I have 15 of 44 home games as the majority "shareholder".

There are a number of factors for the declining attendance, most all have been addressed here. Unquestionably inflation is playing a huge role and the concurrent increases in either rental pricing or increased mortgage rates (Canadians cannot deduct the interest from their mortgages, as can happen in many U.S. states).

When the Jets first arrived the target was 13,000 season ticket holders. The arena only holds 15xxx seats so about 85% of capacity was STH. They hit that target easily and for several years they were fine. Obviously we're now at attendance of approximately 11500 or so and though I have no way of confirming, I'd guess that's probably 95% or better STH. I say that because there's very little in the way of walk up purchases and Winnipeggers are inherently cheap, they will look for a way to get a cheaper ticket. Those cheaper tickets, which have been shown in this thread, are being sold by STH, not by TNSE.

The walk up market, I would contend, is what has been hit most by inflation. Currently that appears to be about 2000-4000 seats and I would say that it is reasonable to attribute that to inflationary causes in part. The Jets have never been viewed as an inexpensive option for a family of 4 in Winnipeg. But pre-Covid/inflation it was doable. Plus the STH numbers were higher.

So the bigger issue that Winnipeg is facing is the bleeding of STH. Part of that can be attributed to a relative lack of large corporate community in Winnipeg compared to larger centers, be they Canadian or U.S. Box sales seem to be doing well enough and I honestly don't know if they factor into attendance numbers or not. That means the regular 100/200/300 level seats are the biggest issue.

I can tell you that I likely will not be a STH next season. This is not related to the product on the ice. I understand the market realities of a team in Winnipeg - we are the least desirable market to play for in the NHL. I also understand the dislike of Chevy and what has been achieved. I try to relate that to the context of the market, but I am of the opinion that TNSE is too loyal to a fault and do not operate the team in a truly professional (or unprofessional, depending on your perspective) manner, trying too hard to be a "family" when they are in reality a business. Vegas being the counterpoint - being cold and efficient - but Vegas can be due to their market realities. Very desirable place to be, strength in performance centered around winning, something players actually want to have happen.

So why not be a STH? Several reasons:
- many in my group are no longer interested. The tickets are not inexpensive (the seats are great for game view/experience) but they see resale seats at much cheaper rates and no risk of being stuck in our draft with a preseason game ($250 for the pair of seats). They can pick or choose the games they want.
- several mini-packs available. The way our group drafts, if you only have five games, it largely works out like the mini-packs that give you 1 A game 3 B games 1 C game (A game is original six usually, B game is higher tier teams with stars, C game is lower tier teams, poor draws). pricing is very similar
- price increases on an annual basis, regardless of how team performs. In the inaugural season we paid just a shade under $7000 for our two seats. We are now at $11160. First season was 45 games, this season was 44 games (they reduced the number of preseason games by 1). Rest assured nobody's wage increased in lock step with that rate of increase.

Behavior of TNSE towards STH is a huge factor as well. I'll relate a couple of my stories that I've waded through:
In 2017 I was diagnosed with stage 4 oral cancer. As the lead of the STH group I didn't want my group to lose the seats should I not make it through treatment. I reached out to our ticket rep to have the name on the file changed. They said sure, no problem, so long as we paid the transfer fee on each seat - $750 at the time per seat. Thanks for your compassion. At the same time, I had a vacation for Hawaii planned and had to cancel the flight and condo rental. Both of those organizations couldn't send the money back to us any faster. We weren't dumping the tickets, we weren't making any sneaky changes to other people not on the wait list, it was the same damn group of people. We left the tickets in my name and I've been fortunate enough to be around still.

In 2011 when we first got the seats, we were disappointed with the location. We were told it was our only option, take it or leave it and with the demand, they weren't wrong. But we had the option of putting in a relocation request. At the start of each season I'd put in that relocation request. Each time I asked about relocation, the ticket rep would say they have nothing on file - as in no request from me. I took to making the request four times per year and forwarding each previous request with it. In 2018, in the Jets forum on this board and individual indicated they had been relocated from the 300 level to section 120, one of the sections I had requested to move to. I contacted my ticket rep to ask how this happened and they told me that it never happened and I was making stuff up. I reached out to the board member and he was very kind, giving me his old seat numbers, row and section, along with the same information in his new section, along with his full name. I provided that to the ticket rep and within a week I was moved to section 103, basically the equivalent section on the other side of the ice. But they basically called me a liar until I provided documented proof of exactly the move that had happened. I was paying higher prices and a lower priority than someone else to them. This was a completely different experience from how the local CFL team had done things for decades - they had priority ranking for STH, even in the era of rotary dial phones and hand written spreadsheets. TNSE just didn't give a crap.

For the Vegas game last night I checked my section to see what the Jets had for sale for tickets. I could find pairs of tickets in my section for $129 +$12 in fees. If you recall from the top of this verbose post my cost is $125. $4 and fees is the difference in price to sit in my section being a STH or not. Plus I get the benefit of paying $750 for three meaningless preseason games (and I like those a lot more than most as I like seeing the kids play, but I can wait till they go to the Moose and see them for $25).

At a Kings game last year I sat beside a Kings fan that was retired and was going around seeing the Kings at every arena, very cool. He was super to talk to and very interested in the Jets/Thrashers/Coyotes history. I asked him what he paid? $80 including a hot dog and a beer. I paid $122 last season.

When we've had the rare occasion to have to try and sell tickets, we've gone through the official Jets resale site. What we found is that as game time approached and our seats weren't selling, seats owned by the Jets were decreased in price, undercutting our price. We cannot sell for a price lower than the STH price we pay. But TNSE can. Just like the Kings fan got his tickets off ticketmaster for $80, had I chose to sell that game I would have had to list mine at $122, no hot dog, no beer. I can choose to sell them on other sites for less money, but that's technically a violation of my contract (rest assured, TNSE lets us know that) and we could lose our seats due to that violation.

My benefits for being a STH this year amounted to a vinyl collapsible cooler, BBQ apron and first right of refusal for playoff tickets, should they make it. For the price of three pre-season games I could have bought a Yeti of significant size.

They are largely unresponsive to any concerns you raise through your ticket rep. To put this in perspective, if this was a restaurant and I was treated as a guest the same way TNSE treats their STH, I wouldn't actually support that restaurant. I've done this with several restaurants in the past - they need to earn my business by providing a reasonable product and site experience. TNSE doesn't really do that and I think that's why they are bleeding STH. They started out thinking the fans owed them and they were in control. But now when the lustre has worn off they are paying the price in people walking away. I believe they treat the players and staff very well, but we're just their to pay and we haven't been really valued to this point, rather taken for granted. I don't believe they understand that yet.

This is all incredibly valuable information, and I think this speaks volumes about the state of the organization upstairs from ice level -- especially if your experience here is common. It almost sounds like TNSE feels entitled, and fans there will never be grateful enough to them for bringing a team back to town.

I hope your health is better now, and that you still have many more years left to give TNSE hell.

 

[BE Friend]

The Corporation I work for which is across Canada has boxes in Winnipeg/Ottawa/Toronto/Montreal. In Every city EXCEPT Winnipeg they also purchase anywhere form 30 to 50 Season tickets. Why they don't in Winnipeg is anyone's guess. Maybe they never were approached to do so but who really knows

VERY ROUGH math, cut it in the middle say 40 seats, 1/4 mil per year?? A good seat in TO is ?? 10K?? That is a healthy corp.
Give us a tip on who. That's the daily NET profit for Exxon so maybe that sector?

I often wonder if the drop out is people just figuring out why bother with the hassle, $15 beer, $30 parking +++, buy that 100" TV at costco + recliner and still have savings for a winter trip to FLA and watch the panthers in the cheap seats for $20.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

VERY ROUGH math, cut it in the middle say 40 seats, 1/4 mil per year?? A good seat in TO is ?? 10K?? That is a healthy corp.
Give us a tip on who. That's the daily NET profit for Exxon so maybe that sector?

I often wonder if the drop out is people just figuring out why bother with the hassle, $15 beer, $30 parking +++, buy that 100" TV at costco + recliner and still have savings for a winter trip to FLA and watch the panthers in the cheap seats for $20.

It is a multi Billon dollar Corp with a large presence Manitoba>East

 

[MrHeiskanen]

The Corporation I work for which is across Canada has boxes in Winnipeg/Ottawa/Toronto/Montreal. In Every city EXCEPT Winnipeg they also purchase anywhere form 30 to 50 Season tickets. Why they don't in Winnipeg is anyone's guess. Maybe they never were approached to do so but who really knows

Probably because none were available originally, the corporation hasn't reached out to purchase since then and by everything posted in this thread the sales reps are completely incompetent so they have probably never cold called or approached the corporation trying to sell additional seats.

 

[BE Friend]

I'd like to build off of this post a bit. No specific issue taken with anything said, it's just a good leaping off point.

"We cannot sell for a price lower than the STH price we pay. But TNSE can."

Thats how the deBeers diamond cartel works. In a way I understand why, but still reeks of anti trust issues. The Ticketmaster Cartel? might be the worst in history.

 

[BE Friend]

It is a multi Billon dollar Corp with a large presence Manitoba>East

Ok, now we have a challenge. Very curious now. Anything to do with a guy named Irv? That dividing line is very interesting. Regardless , Billionaires helping other Billionaires is admirable.

 

[oldunclehue]

OK, so something to consider - remember the Jets are owned by David Thomson, Canada's richest man.

Now I don't bring that up to say "so therefore he doesn't care if the Jets lose money". Definitely not.

But did you ever wonder how Thomson, who spends more time in London England than anywhere else, with no ties to Winnipeg, came to own the team? It's because he owns the land underneath the arena. In fact he owns a lot of land in downtown Winnipeg, and has invested more money since the Jets came back.

The Winnipeg Jets are a real estate investment play. The Jets bring more interest, excitement, and well people, to downtown Winnipeg - all of which help Thomson's real estate investments.

So I'm definitely not saying we shouldn't worry about this kind of low attendance. We should. And maybe continued low attendance might mean the team leaves. But it would be no small decision for Thomson and TNSE to sell or move the team because of the effect that would have on Thomson (and his holding company Osmington) other investments.

THOMSON is a silent partner in TNSE, not the "owner" as you say. This is all an investment for him, all the TNSE real estate, development and projects are for him to make money...nothing else.

This whole "we have the richest owner" talk needs to stop. He is an investor and this isn't his baby...its CHIPMAN's who sold the plan to THOMSON and that is all.

He is not in the business of losing money. If things don't improve....hes not going to bail the Jets out with his own bank account.

 

[Yukon Joe]

THOMSON is a silent partner in TNSE, not the "owner" as you say. This is all an investment for him, all the TNSE real estate, development and projects are for him to make money...nothing else.

This whole "we have the richest owner" talk needs to stop. He is an investor and this isn't his baby...its CHIPMAN's who sold the plan to THOMSON and that is all.

He is not in the business of losing money. If things don't improve....hes not going to bail the Jets out with his own bank account.

I'm confused - your tone seems like you're disagreeing with me, but your points are all ones I agree with.

As an investor (almost certainly the majority investor) it's perfectly fine to call Thomson the owner. But yes Mark Chipman is the active partner.

Thomson is definitely not running the Jets as a charity case.

HOWEVER - if Thomson is losing, say, $1 million per year on the Jets, but figures he's making an extra $3 million per year on his RE investments because of the team, then he probably still happy.

 

[dj4aces]

THOMSON is a silent partner in TNSE, not the "owner" as you say. This is all an investment for him, all the TNSE real estate, development and projects are for him to make money...nothing else.

To be fair to them, there are several sources that refer to Thomson as an owner, not just a partner.

In a very brief search for "richest nhl owners", this is the only page that lists Chipman.

 

[Cleatus]

I've never gone to games in Winnipeg (I live in Calgary), but I've lost basically all interest because the team is trash, and should've traded everyone to start a rebuild (Chevy should be canned).

 

[oldunclehue]

To be fair to them, there are several sources that refer to Thomson as an owner, not just a partner.

In a very brief search for "richest nhl owners", this is the only page that lists Chipman.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-jets-deal-the-investors-who-made-it-happen-1.1054220

He didn't have anything to do with the Jets purchase negotiations, he is rarely if ever seen at anything to do with the Jets. Much like I have stake in companies for investments doesn't make me the "owner", he is more of a investment partner than owner.

Media seems to jus throw around that he is the OWNER of the team...especially Winnipeg media. If you get down to it I guess anyone who has any part of an investment group...(I invested in a few local businesses for small amounts) could call themselves an owner.

YES hes super rich, yes hes super successful. But he is simply the money backing the entire TNSE in regards to their business dealings. But not an active "owner" in any way.

Much like the Saudis invested heavily in Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter...but they aren't the owner...Musk is.

 

[ORRFForever]

Amazing how, when a southern franchise has terrible attendance, NO one blinks an eye. Winnipeg struggles and we know Gary is salivating.

 

[TheLegend]

I literally said the opposite:



My point is that Chipman/Thomson may be willing to accept some amount of losses from the Jets if they're making more money elsewhere, but that certainly is not without limit.

TNS may be the nicest office space in Winnipeg, but it's an awful lot nicer to be next to an arena that is full (or mostly full) 77 times per year NHL+AHL) then if it is only an AHL arena.



Never.

You have no idea how traumatic the last arena debate was. Winnipeg literally lost the Jets over it.

CLC is small, but as we're seeing you wouldn't want a bigger arena anyways. TNSE gets a specific subsidy from the government that is used to make upgrades every single year to the arena. There's also no location in Winnipeg that would be better then where the rink is now - plus there has been a ton of RE development by the team owners in areas around the rink.

The size of Winnipeg’s arena is fine.

If Meruelo can get his arena plan going he’s only looking at a capacity of around 16,500.

 

[TheLegend]

Amazing how, when a southern franchise has terrible attendance, NO one blinks an eye. Winnipeg struggles and we know Gary is salivating.

What universe are you living in?