Injury Report: William Nylander possibly exposed to COVID-19

[Randy Randerson]

What happens to the players that don't want a vax?

well obviously it's not state mandated in this loose hypothetical scenario.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Oh I agree, none of the sports leagues would do it because of the optics but I think they would have easily saved more cases than they caused by taking vaccines out of the pool.

I meant this more in a past tense, like as soon as vaccines were available there should have been 50,000 of them strategically allotted to the entertainment industry to give the rest of of something to do while we waited. In the grand scheme it would be a very minor delay in supply, but having the entertainment would make a difference.

Even for us I think we've basically jumped the shark at this point, but the NHL is probably still a good idea. If the Leafs had a Vancouver style outbreak heading into the playoffs and got relegated, think of how many people are out doing stuff instead of watching playoff games.

You must then believe that the playoffs will be rigged so that the smallest market team wins, there's no way they'd let the Leafs win and have to find a way to suppress the province-wide celebration riots that would break out.

 

[Mickey Marner]

I get that the optics are bad, I don't understand why they didn't just power through that as soon as the vaccines were available. Here's some napkin math:

there's about 900 NHL players in a given year, let's say you need as many support staff as players so 1800 to vaccinate the league.

• You take out 1800 full vaccinations from the pool, so 1800 more people are vulnerable to get the disease that wouldn't be otherwise
• to this point in Canada, we have about a 2.66% positivity rate (total number of confirmed cases by total population), so by taking those 1800 vaccinations out of the pool you're probably causing an additional 48 people to get the disease
• by having Hockey to entertain us every night, in a country that's seeing 5,000 new cases every day, is it a stretch to think that they would save 50 cases over the course of a season to offset the damage done because people now have something that will keep them home at night?

And that's assuming that no one from the states watches at all.

Also, they're bringing in millions of tax dollars. Somebody has to pay for CRB, EI etc. The optics may be poor, but it's probably a good move to vaccinate the players.

 

[93LEAFS]

We haven't got essential workers in hot spot areas vaccinated who are much more likely to contribute to community spread due to living in cramped living conditions. And, I think the NHL being on TV keeps people from going out is a myth given what I've seen in Toronto.

 

[Randy Randerson]

You must then believe that the playoffs will be rigged so that the smallest market team wins, there's no way they'd let the Leafs win and have to find a way to suppress the province-wide celebration riots that would break out.

ugh, I hope you're wrong but hadn't thought about that.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Oh I agree, none of the sports leagues would do it because of the optics but I think they would have easily saved more cases than they caused by taking vaccines out of the pool.

I meant this more in a past tense, like as soon as vaccines were available there should have been 50,000 of them strategically allotted to the entertainment industry to give the rest of of something to do while we waited. In the grand scheme it would be a very minor delay in supply, but having the entertainment would make a difference.

Even for us I think we've basically jumped the shark at this point, but the NHL is probably still a good idea. If the Leafs had a Vancouver style outbreak heading into the playoffs and got relegated, think of how many people are out doing stuff instead of watching playoff games.

We could use da 50,000 doses here in Peel where we have SA, Brazilian and UK variants all running wild ... and our ER and ICU's are all FULL ... meanwhile we are still politically passing around equal shares of Vaccines to all provinces ... what da f****????????????????? our east there are virtual no cases ... up north hardly any .. yet we continue down a political path on vaccines ... Ford is too nice a guy really ... he needs to expose da truth

 

[Randy Randerson]

We haven't got essential workers in hot spot areas vaccinated who are much more likely to contribute to community spread due to living in cramped living conditions. And, I think the NHL being on TV keeps people from going out is a myth given what I've seen in Toronto.

I think people are going out regardless, but I think enough people would not go out on enough occasions to offset the really small number of cases that vaccinating the NHL would cause.

Getting people to follow guidelines is like herding cats, but if there's no public venue to watch games, their TV's become catnip for at least some of the time.

 

[Randy Randerson]

We could use da 50,000 doses here in Peel where we have SA, Brazilian and UK variants all running wild ... and our ER and ICU's are all FULL ... meanwhile we are still politically passing around equal shares of Vaccines to all provinces ... what da f****????????????????? our east there are virtual no cases ... up north hardly any .. yet we continue down a political path on vaccines ... Ford is too nice a guy really ... he needs to expose da truth

Peel is a shitshow, I'm from Brampton and like a handfull of people I know are still there, everyone got out....except from Caledon or Port Credit.

Agree that the rollout hasn't been well handled.

 

[93LEAFS]

I think people are going out regardless, but I think enough people would not go out on enough occasions to offset the really small number of cases that vaccinating the NHL would cause.

Getting people to follow guidelines is like herding cats, but if there's no public venue to watch games, their TV's become catnip for at least some of the time.

People go and watch it at friends with cable. I don't think there is much of a net effect.

 

[Randy Randerson]

People go and watch it at friends with cable. I don't think there is much of a net effect.

we'll never know because it won't happen, but I think it would save 50 cases which is all it would need to over the course of a season to completely offset

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Peel is a shitshow, I'm from Brampton and like a handfull of people I know are still there, everyone got out....except from Caledon or Port Credit.

Agree that the rollout hasn't been well handled.

Good you got out ... I am still here ... a buddy of mine from LP/Port credit who also played in his 50's is in ICU on a ventilator right now at Trillium with no pre-existing conditions and in great physical shape with SA variant .. we have it down here in south Peel now ... hope he does not pass ... not a top 100 HOFer but pretty darn close

 

[93LEAFS]

we'll never know because it won't happen, but I think it would save 50 cases which is all it would need to over the course of a season to completely offset

I mean, hockey is back at its most prominent rate and we have more cases than ever right now. These guys can afford to live in a bubble. If they want to disregard that, then fine. But, while we have messed up hotspots of people who live pay check to pay check, live in cramped conditions and work in industries that are actually essential, it makes no sense to prioritize NHLers.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I mean, hockey is back at its most prominent rate and we have more cases than ever right now. These guys can afford to live in a bubble. If they want to disregard that, then fine. But, while we have messed up hotspots of people who live pay check to pay check, live in cramped conditions and work in industries that are actually essential, it makes no sense to prioritize NHLers.

I think you're interpreting my point as "if the NHL was vaccinated, that would significantly reduce the COVID problem" which isn't at all what I'm saying, and the fact that our covid numbers are up while hockey isn't a relevant argument. We don't know what it would look like without Hockey, and we don't know what it would look like without any cancelled/postponed games. High numbers is really just a correlation between the timing of hockey and the exponential growth pattern of viruses including the new, more contagious variants. There really will never be a way to prove this one way or the other.

I believe that there is a large overlap between sports fandom and the contingent of society that will go out against recommendations/guidelines. Baiting those people to stay inside even some of the time I think would do more good than harm, and it would be a drop in the bucket against the backdrop of our rising case counts.

NHLer's jobs also require close contact, so a single case can derail a whole team or multiple teams, see: Vancouver.

The bigger issue that we have is a botched vaccine procurement and rollout, our per capita vaccination rates should be more in line with our closest neighbour, which actually would make a huge difference.

 

[93LEAFS]

I think you're interpreting my point as "if the NHL was vaccinated, that would significantly reduce the COVID problem" which isn't at all what I'm saying, and the fact that our covid numbers are up while hockey isn't a relevant argument. We don't know what it would look like without Hockey, and we don't know what it would look like without any cancelled/postponed games. High numbers is really just a correlation between the timing of hockey and the exponential growth pattern of viruses including the new, more contagious variants. There really will never be a way to prove this one way or the other.

I believe that there is a large overlap between sports fandom and the contingent of society that will go out against recommendations/guidelines. Baiting those people to stay inside even some of the time I think would do more good than harm, and it would be a drop in the bucket against the backdrop of our rising case counts.

NHLer's jobs also require close contact, so a single case can derail a whole team or multiple teams, see: Vancouver.

The bigger issue that we have is a botched vaccine procurement and rollout, our per capita vaccination rates should be more in line with our closest neighbour, which actually would make a huge difference.

My point is, I don't think fandom makes a difference at all. People are either inclined to stay in or they aren't. The NHL being on doesn't change that. I'm staying in outside of essential work-related stuff because I know that is a positive contribution and in the best interests of people I care about. I did that with no NHL on, and I do it with the NHL on. The NHL provides no bigger buy-in for me, and I'm a huge NHL fan.

Prioritizing people in their 20's and 30's, who don't miss a paycheck if they feel sick, can afford to easily isolate, is pointless when you have serious issues among people who live paycheck to paycheck who need to work in industries that are much more vital to our day to day lives than hockey.

 

[Randy Randerson]

My point is, I don't think fandom makes a difference at all. People are either inclined to stay in or they aren't. The NHL being on doesn't change that. I'm staying in outside of essential work-related stuff because I know that is a positive contribution and in the best interests of people I care about. I did that with no NHL on, and I do it with the NHL on. The NHL provides no bigger buy-in for me, and I'm a huge NHL fan.

Prioritizing people in their 20's and 30's, who don't miss a paycheck if they feel sick, can afford to easily isolate, is pointless when you have serious issues among people who live paycheck to paycheck who need to work in industries that are much more vital to our day to day lives than hockey.

I'm in the same contingent as you, but I know a lot of people on the spectrum between constantly criticizing the anti-covid measures for their perceived inconsistencies and outright anti-maskers. I agree that this made no difference for me, but I can tell you that I have observed it making a difference for the people in my circles on that spectrum (who are between 30 and mid 60's).

There is also little socioeconomic consideration in the rollout of our vaccines, so I think that would have a much greater effect on the ones you seem to be concerned with than assurance of entertertainment.

 

[Fogelhund]

 

[mix1home]

Bet you he got it from his dirty brother
Or talking to a Hab

It was phone call with Pasta. Book it.

 

[mix1home]

I get that the optics are bad, I don't understand why they didn't just power through that as soon as the vaccines were available. Here's some napkin math:

• by having Hockey to entertain us every night, in a country that's seeing 5,000 new cases every day, is it a stretch to think that they would save 50 cases over the course of a season to offset the damage done because people now have something that will keep them home at night?

And that's assuming that no one from the states watches at all.

That is very bright thinking, my friend. They shall actually build models to prioritize vaccinations not by age, but by community factors - how that vaccinated group would affect dynamics of spread of virus. Doctors, teachers, entertainment, supermarket workers, police.

 

[mix1home]

I hope we get some positive news on this front soon.

Word "positive" is pretty negative these days, man.

 

[67Cup]

Peel is a shitshow, I'm from Brampton and like a handfull of people I know are still there, everyone got out....except from Caledon or Port Credit.

Agree that the rollout hasn't been well handled.

FWIW, I had the jab last week at the campus of UTM through Trillium. I thought everything was very well arranged at that level. I thought it would be AstraZeneca but it was Pfizer, in my case.

 

[Randy Randerson]

FWIW, I had the jab last week at the campus of UTM through Trillium. I thought everything was very well arranged at that level. I thought it would be AstraZeneca but it was Pfizer, in my case.

My mom has her first as well and hearing that it was well organized. I think the bigger issue was timing of supply rather than rollout. I sort of lumped them together in my previous post but really meant that we should be more per capita vaccinated than we are in general.

 

[Ciao]

Please excuse the long post, but I work with this every day and just finished my last Zoom call on the issue. I get a bit fired up on this.

Just vaccinate the NHL jesus.

Let them pay for it if that's what it takes, I would have zero problem with this.

Importation of the COVID vaccine is under the control of the federal government. You can't just pop on-line and order some privately.

I think you would have an easier time importing a nuclear reactor than 500 doses of vaccine.

I get that the optics are bad, I don't understand why they didn't just power through that as soon as the vaccines were available. Here's some napkin math:

there's about 900 NHL players in a given year, let's say you need as many support staff as players so 1800 to vaccinate the league.

• You take out 1800 full vaccinations from the pool, so 1800 more people are vulnerable to get the disease that wouldn't be otherwise
• to this point in Canada, we have about a 2.66% positivity rate (total number of confirmed cases by total population), so by taking those 1800 vaccinations out of the pool you're probably causing an additional 48 people to get the disease
• by having Hockey to entertain us every night, in a country that's seeing 5,000 new cases every day, is it a stretch to think that they would save 50 cases over the course of a season to offset the damage done because people now have something that will keep them home at night?

And that's assuming that no one from the states watches at all.

5,000 vaccines is quite a bit right now.

Yesterday Premier Ford explained that every time you give a vaccine to one person you're taking it away from another.

I can't imagine any provincial government defending a policy decision to vaccinate pro athletes earlier than others.

I believe most of the US based teams have vaccinated their players, so the issues will likely be Cdn focused going forward. It would only take 500 vaccines to cover all 7 Cdn teams with 2 shots per player/ coaches. A drop in the vaccine supply bucket, but it would be politically incorrect.

Oh I agree, none of the sports leagues would do it because of the optics but I think they would have easily saved more cases than they caused by taking vaccines out of the pool.

I meant this more in a past tense, like as soon as vaccines were available there should have been 50,000 of them strategically allotted to the entertainment industry to give the rest of of something to do while we waited. In the grand scheme it would be a very minor delay in supply, but having the entertainment would make a difference.

Even for us I think we've basically jumped the shark at this point, but the NHL is probably still a good idea. If the Leafs had a Vancouver style outbreak heading into the playoffs and got relegated, think of how many people are out doing stuff instead of watching playoff games.

50,000 vaccines for entertainers is out of the question.

Schools are closed under an emergency order in Toronto and Peel. Parents are wondering what to do with daycares at capacity and/or closed as well. Teachers are clamouring for the vaccines across the province -- presently authorized for Toronto, Peel and special-education workers only province-wide -- and it is unthinkable that the province would authorize vaccines for entertainers ahead of teachers, day-care workers and other essential workers province-wide.

We haven't got essential workers in hot spot areas vaccinated who are much more likely to contribute to community spread due to living in cramped living conditions. And, I think the NHL being on TV keeps people from going out is a myth given what I've seen in Toronto.

It would be much more effective to administer the vaccine to retail workers etc.

Good you got out ... I am still here ... a buddy of mine from LP/Port credit who also played in his 50's is in ICU on a ventilator right now at Trillium with no pre-existing conditions and in great physical shape with SA variant .. we have it down here in south Peel now ... hope he does not pass ... not a top 100 HOFer but pretty darn close

All the best to your buddy. I dearly hope he makes it too.

The Ontario government is panicky not because of the total number of infections, but because of the unexpected demand for ICUs and ventilators.

The number of ventilators across the province is limited. The remaining headroom between the number of admissions and the total capacity of the system is quickly shrinking. The difference numbers in the hundreds, which is miniscule to a population of 13-million people.

At the rate its going, it could disappear in the blink of an eye.

It is now foreseeable the demand for ICU beds could exceed supply within a matter of weeks.

There is an unpublished triage protocol now in place that will be activated when there aren't enough ICU beds to go around. It will allocate ICU admissions based on a morbidity index that basically amounts to survival of the fittest.

The general consensus is activation of the triage protocol the very last place the government wants to go because it would be their death knell in the next election. However, that outcome is looking more and more probable every day, and I simply can't imagine the Ontario government releasing 10; 50; 500; or 50,000 doses of vaccine to professional athletes to help keep us glued to the TV.

The situation is much more dire than that.

Give it a month or six weeks, and our friends or ourselves might not qualify for an ICU bed if we need one.

Even a healthy 50 year old might not get one.

 

[Confucius]

They should count themselves as lucky to be employed in the pandemic. Many people who make far less have been wiped out. Now some want to vaccinate the pros as well. If they are that concerned stay home like almost everyone else.

 

[93LEAFS]

It would be much more effective to administer the vaccine to retail workers etc.

I'd include them, especially ones at clearly essential services such as grocery stores, pharmacies, etc. They don't have paid sick days, and most don't have the savings to take time off for illness. NHLers can all afford a sizable place to themselves, don't risk losing pay, etc.

Good on Nylander reporting the close contact as soon as he could. But, Nylander is in a position where he has fully paid time off, he works in an industry that can afford to test daily, etc. No NHLer who reports he might have covid is likely going to have significant economic issues or lives in a cramped house.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Please excuse the long post, but I work with this every day and just finished my last Zoom call on the issue. I get a bit fired up on this.


Importation of the COVID vaccine is under the control of the federal government. You can't just pop on-line and order some privately.

I think you would have an easier time importing a nuclear reactor than 500 doses of vaccine.



5,000 vaccines is quite a bit right now.

Yesterday Premier Ford explained that every time you give a vaccine to one person you're taking it away from another.

I can't imagine any provincial government defending a policy decision to vaccinate pro athletes earlier than others.





50,000 vaccines for entertainers is out of the question.

Schools are closed under an emergency order in Toronto and Peel. Parents are wondering what to do with daycares at capacity and/or closed as well. Teachers are clamouring for the vaccines across the province -- presently authorized for Toronto, Peel and special-education workers only province-wide -- and it is unthinkable that the province would authorize vaccines for entertainers ahead of teachers, day-care workers and other essential workers province-wide.



It would be much more effective to administer the vaccine to retail workers etc.



All the best to your buddy. I dearly hope he makes it too.

The Ontario government is panicky not because of the total number of infections, but because of the unexpected demand for ICUs and ventilators.

The number of ventilators across the province is limited. The remaining headroom between the number of admissions and the total capacity of the system is quickly shrinking. The difference numbers in the hundreds, which is miniscule to a population of 13-million people.

At the rate its going, it could disappear in the blink of an eye.

It is now foreseeable the demand for ICU beds could exceed supply within a matter of weeks.

There is an unpublished triage protocol now in place that will be activated when there aren't enough ICU beds to go around. It will allocate ICU admissions based on a morbidity index that basically amounts to survival of the fittest.

The general consensus is activation of the triage protocol the very last place the government wants to go because it would be their death knell in the next election. However, that outcome is looking more and more probable every day, and I simply can't imagine the Ontario government releasing 10; 50; 500; or 50,000 doses of vaccine to professional athletes to help keep us glued to the TV.

The situation is much more dire than that.

Give it a month or six weeks, and our friends or ourselves might not qualify for an ICU bed if we need one.

Even a healthy 50 year old might not get one.

Keep in mind that 50,000 was an arbitrary number that I chose off the top of my head that would include all major sports leagues, and I meant out of the global pool not Ontario's