Why was the draft cut from 9 rounds to 7 in the 2005 CBA?

[boredmale]

Does anybody have a clue what the logic behind this was? I have to guess the NHLPA pushed for this more then actual teams

 

[Skiffer55]

Does anybody have a clue what the logic behind this was? I have to guess the NHLPA pushed for this more then actual teams

Maybe it's better to be an UDFA than an 8th/9th rounder, like it is in the NFL.

 

[Big Easy]

Very few of them were being signed, would be my guess.
Very few 7th rounders make it to the NHL as it is. You need a cut off point.

 

[boredmale]

Very few of them were being signed, would be my guess.
Very few 7th rounders make it to the NHL as it is. You need a cut off point.

Just using 2004 draft, here are guys picked int he 8th and 9th round

Pekka Rhine, Mark Streit(although given current draft rules he wouldn't be available), Daniel Winnik and Jannik Hansen

 

[Brodeur]

Like you mentioned, the draft rules for Europeans changed which wasn't insignificant. Before all Europeans had to be drafted, but now the 23+ year olds could sign wherever. So that took away a small pool for scouts to fish out of.

And as silly as it sounds, I do recall some teams complaining about the length of the draft. I've attended three drafts in recent years and by the 7th round, most of the folks on the floor seem quite ready to get dinner/drinks/relax.

I get that there's a romantic notion that the scouts are scouring for that undrafted gem, but I don't know if there's 60 guys that'll make it worthwhile to make teams sit around for another hour on draft day.

Plus there's an offseason window to sign undrafted guys with remaining draft eligibility. Columbus tried hard to get an extra 7th rounder to draft Kole Sherwood last year. Instead they invited him to their prospect camp and signed him to an ELC shortly thereafter. Ditto Philadelphia with Philippe Myers. LA did it with Martin Jones. Albeit it takes an extra level of commitment to give a player an ELC.

Before 2006, rounds 1-3 were done on Saturday and the remainder were done on Sunday. Things dragged out and I remember some teams complained about not being able to make flights on time.

I know for some folks, it seems strange for a million dollar business to scoff about an extra night of hotel for a handful of employees. But I was surprised when I went to the Draft last year and the Penguins staff was on the first flight out to Pittsburgh on Sunday morning. I all but assumed they had a private jet, but here they were flying commercial.

 

[Number 57]

When you think about it, time spent drafting these players in the 8th and 9th round (about an hour) likely is less of a hassle than extending invites to a whole bunch of junior players that were undrafted, filtering out who you want, contacting them, trying to convince them to attend YOUR camp, etc VS just sitting around for an hour and simply making your pick when it's your turn.

Also, why not make it an event on Saturday morning for rounds 1-2-3, and then everybody goes home. The following morning, teams go into their war room and via a live conference call they all make their picks from the comfort of their offices. Max 1 minute allowed to enter your pick. Simple.

That way, the draft could be extended to 10 or 11 rounds. There are plenty of CHL players that go undrafted on draft day that would deserve to, and also tons of players from Europe that would be good projects. What's the problem in having the rights to more players? It makes things more interesting IMO. More whealing and dealing between teams. Also, actually drafting them mean you can work with them and try to develop them, since they belong to your team. Also, for the kids, it would be a dream come true, and attending the camp and being followed by the coaches would be great for their development.

Additionnally, it would be great for the die-hard geek fans who love following the draft and their team's prospects.

 

[boredmale]

When you think about it, time spent drafting these players in the 8th and 9th round (about an hour) likely is less of a hassle than extending invites to a whole bunch of junior players that were undrafted, filtering out who you want, contacting them, trying to convince them to attend YOUR camp, etc VS just sitting around for an hour and simply making your pick when it's your turn.

Also, why not make it an event on Saturday morning for rounds 1-2-3, and then everybody goes home. The following morning, teams go into their war room and via a live conference call they all make their picks from the comfort of their offices. Max 1 minute allowed to enter your pick. Simple.

That way, the draft could be extended to 10 or 11 rounds. There are plenty of CHL players that go undrafted on draft day that would deserve to, and also tons of players from Europe that would be good projects. What's the problem in having the rights to more players? It makes things more interesting IMO. More whealing and dealing between teams. Also, actually drafting them mean you can work with them and try to develop them, since they belong to your team. Also, for the kids, it would be a dream come true, and attending the camp and being followed by the coaches would be great for their development.

Additionnally, it would be great for the die-hard geek fans who love following the draft and their team's prospects.

It also gives a team 2 extra assets they can trade for very minimal value players. Beyond that I also think it will help teams that trade away alot of picks having 2 more chances to draft somebody

 

[WTFMAN99]

I wouldn't mind them adding these rounds back but maybe increase the contract cap to 55?

 

[Brodeur]

When you think about it, time spent drafting these players in the 8th and 9th round (about an hour) likely is less of a hassle than extending invites to a whole bunch of junior players that were undrafted, filtering out who you want, contacting them, trying to convince them to attend YOUR camp, etc VS just sitting around for an hour and simply making your pick when it's your turn.

Teams would be doing this regardless of whether or not rounds 8/9 were there. Adding a couple draftees isn't going to fill out your camp roster.

Also, why not make it an event on Saturday morning for rounds 1-2-3, and then everybody goes home. The following morning, teams go into their war room and via a live conference call they all make their picks from the comfort of their offices. Max 1 minute allowed to enter your pick. Simple.

For better or worse, the NHL wants to make round 1 a primetime event. Making everybody fly out for just the first half of the draft and then fly out and then re-convene just seems like extra leg work.

Not everybody is going to have an easy flight back from the draft location. If you're trying to fly back to say San Jose from Buffalo, you only have a handful of commercial flights on Saturday afternoon/night and each involves stopping at two different cities which would eventually get you into San Jose between 8am-10am Sunday morning. Meanwhile teams would have already re-started the draft at 10am Buffalo time (7am west coast).

Additionnally, it would be great for the die-hard geek fans who love following the draft and their team's prospects.

I get that you're a proponent of having extra rounds, but is it worth that much of a hassle? In some ways it's arguably preferable to go undrafted than be a late round pick. You don't get the bragging rights of saying you're an 8th rounder, but you'd get to pick which teams' camps you can attend.

A player and his representative can target a team which presents the best opportunity. Ken Appleby went undrafted a final time in 2015 but attended camp for the Blues and Devils. Appleby noted that he and his agent spent time going over the depth charts for each team. Eventually he signed a ELC with the Devils.

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Also, here's a quick list of the older Euros who were taken between 2001-04 (with which round in parenthesis). By today's rules they wouldn't have been draft eligible. 2001 in particular saw at least 19 guys taken who wouldn't be eligible today.

2004:
Johan Franzen (3)
Roman Kukumberg (4)
Janne Niskala (5)
Yutaka Fukufuji (8)
Mark Streit (9)
Janne Pesonen (9)
Bjorn Bjurling (9)

2003:
Lasse Kukkonen (5)
Esa Pirnes (6)
Alexander Guskov (7)
Andrei Mukhachev (7)
Petr Kadlec (8)
Eduard Lewandowski (8)
Jan Marek (RIP) (8)
Loic Burkhalter (9)


2002:
Ivan Tkachenko (4)
Jaroslav Balastik (6)
Radoslav Hecl (7)
Fredrik Norrena (7)
Jonas Johnson (7)
Christoph Brandner (8)
Martin Chabada (8)
Tom Koivisto (8)
Pauli Levokari (8)
Vitaly Atyushov (9)

2001:
Tony Virta (4)
Martti Jarventie (4)
Jussi Markkanen (5)
Roman Malek (5)
Andreas Salomonsson (5)
Marek Zidlicky (6)
Andrei Razin (6)
Cristobal Huet (7)
Martin Gerber (8)
Dmitry Bykov (8)
Dmitri Bezrukov (8)
Mario Cartelli (9)
Viktor Ujcik (9)
Ivan Majesky (9)
Mikko Lehtonen (9)
Ales Pisa (9)
Roman Kukhtinov (9)
Viktor Hubl (9)
Toni Dahlman (9)

 

[dire wolf]

Through 1991, it was 12 rounds. Then it went to 11 rounds through 1994. Then to 9 rounds.

From 1980 - 1981, it was 10 rounds. In 1979 it was 6 rounds. Before that, you had the amateur draft and I have no understanding how that worked. Check this out from 1978: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl1978a.html

22 rounds of drafting, but by the last 5 rounds, only Montreal was drafting, and in the rounds before that, only some of the teams drafted. Can anyone explain?

In summary, there is very little rhyme or reason to this.

* Check out Chris Nilan drafted in the 19th round and still played 688 games with over 3000 PIMs.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Here is the All Time 2000-2004 Team 8th/9th Round picks

Moulsen-Winnik-Parenteau
Glass-Talbot-Hansen
Cracknell- HJollweg -Jones
Burish

Enstrom - Byfuglien
Ericsson-wideman
Sekeras-Jurcina
Streit - O'Brien
Clitsome

Rinne
Elliott
Halak
Gerber

Goog players have been drafted in those 5 drafts in 8th/9th round... Unsure why they got rid of those rounds, but there have been some decent players that came from there

 

[boredmale]

From 1980 - 1981, it was 10 rounds. In 1979 it was 6 rounds. Before that, you had the amateur draft and I have no understanding how that worked. Check this out from 1978: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl1978a.html

22 rounds of drafting, but by the last 5 rounds, only Montreal was drafting, and in the rounds before that, only some of the teams drafted. Can anyone explain?

It used to be int he 70s you can draft as many players as you wanted and the draft would end the second all teams decided they had enough. But in the case you given if Montreal wanted to draft 20 more players they had that right. Other teams had the right to draft till the "19th round" as well but decided they had enough before then

 

[Zegras Zebra]

Having a 7 round draft instead of a 9 round draft seems more beneficial to the undrafted players for me as they could pick whichever team's camp they were invited to. For the franchises I don't see why adding another hour or two on the draft floor is such a big deal, as their scouts spend countless hours searching for the best possible prospects in the later rounds, why not give them more opportunities to prove their drafting prowess? They would have the rights to two additional players, and not have to convince as many undrafted players to choose their camp over competitors.

 

[Brodeur]

Unsure why they got rid of those rounds, but there have been some decent players that came from there

Depends on who you're referring to as "they". The choice to pare down to 7 rounds was a collectively bargained item from both the owners and the NHLPA. The draft section is outlined starting on page 18 of the CBA.

8.2 Draft Choices. The Entry Draft shall consist of seven (7) rounds, with each round consisting of the same number of selection choices as there will be Clubs in the League in the following League Year.

Reasons why the NHLPA would want a reduction: Two fewer rounds will mean more undrafted free agents who'll have more negotiation leverage than a typical guy drafted in the 9th round. As myself and others have noted, it can be argued that there are benefits to going undrafted than being a late round pick.

Reasons why the teams would want a reduction: As silly as it sounds, there were complaints before 2005 about the draft running long and teams scrambling to make their Sunday afternoon/nights flights back. Cutting off two rounds saves an hour and a half. But obviously they changed the draft to a Friday/Saturday affair when it used to be Saturday/Sunday before. It wouldn't be impossible to tack on two extra rounds, but I'm not sure many of the teams would be clamoring for it.

The NHLPA also redefined the eligibility of older European players starting in 2005. Of your 'best of' list, Sekeras was 33, Streit/Gerber were 26. By today's rules they would have just been free agents a la Evgeny Medvedev, Roman Cervenka, Antti Raanta etc. In 2001, there were 19 guys drafted who wouldn't have been eligible by today's standards.

So a small but noticeable pool of players was no longer draft eligible, so reducing the length made some sense.

I get why draft junkies would want to extend the proceedings. It's fun to brag that our team found some diamond in the 8th/9th round.

But for the players, the current system is fine. Functionally is there a ton of difference between teammates Nathan Noel and Adam Marsh? Noel surprisingly went undrafted but chose to attend Anaheim's summer camp among other invites. Marsh was drafted in the 7th round and attended Detroit's summer camp. Maybe Marsh gets bragging rights and can show off his draft day photos, but it's not as though the NHL slammed its doors on Noel.

 

[Woll Smoth]

I wouldn't mind them adding these rounds back but maybe increase the contract cap to 55?

I don't see that happening. Rounds 8-9 would produce so little NHL talent that those extra 5 contract spots would just be used for earlier picks and UFAs.