Why Was Joe Mullen In The Minors At 24?

[KillerMillerTime]

I was born & raised in Greater Boston, graduating college in 1977. Was a longtime
BC fan from childhood to present day. So I witnessed Joe Mullen's entire BC career and felt as though by the end of his 1977-78 season, he was good enough at that point to have played regularly for roughly the bottom half of the NHL teams.

Yet, Mullen didn't appear, beyond one SCPO game in 1980, with St. Louis, until about a quarter of the way through the 1981-82 season when he was called up by the Blues. This happened despite tearing apart the minors the previous two seasons.

Interestingly, 2 local Boston area players, one a contemporary in Bobby Miller
who was just 5 months older than Mullen, had played almost 4 full seasons on the Boston Bruins, including in a Stanley Cup Final and Semifinal appearance, before Mullen was an NHL regular. The other was Bobby Carpenter who was 6 YEARS YOUNGER, and was an NHL regular at 18 years of age, directly out of Massachusetts Catholic Conference High School League, before Mullen was a regular on STL.

In addition, Mullen wasn't selected by the US for the 1981 Canada Cup, despite
several forwards from the 1980 US Olympic Team who were younger than him
and worse case not any better. They were Mark Johnson, Steve Christoff and
Rob McClanahan. In addition, the aforementioned Bob Miller and
Tom Gorence, both NCAA contemporaries were on the 1981 US Team.

So with that factor added in, was it possible Mullen was a victim of Canadian
"discrimination" by the STL brass and "payback" for going pro by the USA
Hockey brass picking the 1981 US CC Team?

How else do you explain a future HOF player, by the start of 1981-82 being literally stuck in the minors?

Hopefully some longtime Blues fans can shed some light on his Blues early career
because I will never understand how Bobby Carpenter beat him to the NHL as a regular player at 18...lol. Seems like maybe the biggest fail by an NHL org of a
player under contract, right under their nose. Like WTF!!!

 

[Michael Farkas]

He wasn't "classically trained"...he had a very unique style, he was small, quick, with "roller hockey skill". He may well have been viewed as a Quadruple-A player or a little too individualist (for an American, probably) because of his penchant for near end to end rushes at BC.

There weren't a lot of skilled Americans around at this time. Howe, Ftorek, maybe Dave Christian, Reed Larson...that's probably it in 1980-81.

Spitballing continued: Maybe the term "shortlist scout" didn't really exist then...so, the undrafted free agent that they signed to the CHL wasn't exactly someone they were tracking super closely. Same deal with, say, Kelly Kisio.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

He wasn't "classically trained"...he had a very unique style, he was small, quick, with "roller hockey skill". He may well have been viewed as a Quadruple-A player or a little too individualist (for an American, probably) because of his penchant for near end to end rushes at BC.

There weren't a lot of skilled Americans around at this time. Howe, Ftorek, maybe Dave Christian, Reed Larson...that's probably it in 1980-81.

Spitballing continued: Maybe the term "shortlist scout" didn't really exist then...so, the undrafted free agent that they signed to the CHL wasn't exactly someone they were tracking super closely. Same deal with, say, Kelly Kisio.

Thanks for a different view on Mullen. However, by the end of Mullen's 1977-78 year at
BC, it was pretty clear he was going to play in the NHL. He led the Herb Brooks coached Team USA in goals at the 1979 WC. That team had about 11 NCAA players
including Mullen, that were looked at as the nucleas of the 1980 US Olympic Team with the rest NHL\WHA or former players and again he led the squad in goals.

There had already been some smaller US trained players from the US including in
St. Louis with Doug Pallazarri who was 5:05 and Mike Polich at 5:08, along with
Ftorek who was 5:08. So I can't believe the concer was height related.

Bobby Miller who as I pointed out earlier was 5 months older, was about an inch taller.
Granted, Miller (who I saw play starting when we were in HS) was considered a plus skater throughout his career. So it baffles me he didn't get an NHL role at least by the end of the 1979-80 RS, when several forwards including Christian walked immediately
onto NHL rosters. Christian and Christoff made immediate impacts also.

 

[decma]

I believe every forward on the US Canada Cup team in 81 had at least half a season of NHL experience.

If it came down to Christoff or Mullen for a top 6 RW role, they were going to go with the guy who had had a pretty good season and a half for Min and who did play for the Olympic team in 80, rather than the guy who turned down the Olympics to turn pro but who hadn't yet made the NHL (aside from the one playoff game).

He probably could have been slotted in ahead of Talafous, but I can see the reasoning behind taking the 6-year NHL veteran over Mullen.

Re his failure to crack StL's line-up until halfway through the 81-82 season, maybe they liked Babych and Chapman in the top 6 RW roles?

Babych did well on the Kid Line (with Federko and Sutter) in 78-79 and 79-80, and even better with Dunlop and Petterson in 80-81.

Chapman had played with Federko in junior, and they probably brought him in from Pittsburgh thinking he would be the #1 RW.

Currie wasn't bad as a 3rd RW.

Following the successful 80-81 season, I can see them wanting to stick with those 3 and leaving Mullen in the minors.

Then in 81-82, Chapman hurts his back, Babych hurts his shoulder, and Mullen finally gets his chance (after doing even better in Salt Lake than he had in 80-81).

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

my understanding always has been that mullen was slated to be a top guy on the miracle team, but he turned pro instead so they had to go without him.

in the 1979 WC, he was tied with petrov and mikhailov for second in goals, with 7, behind makarov's 8.

as for why he was stuck in the minors for so long after leaving college, that never made sense to me. almost a point/game in his first year in the minors (1980), and then in year two leading the league in scoring by ten pts. in year three, he scores at almost a two pt/game clip before finally getting called up. then once he's called up after the new year, he scores at a 49 goal, 111 pt pace. that would have placed him 11th in goals and 9th in pts. then he followed it up with 12 pts in his first playoff series (3-1 against the jets) and 6 pts in a six game second round loss to chicago. so yeah, he must have been more than ready and well past baked by then.

i guess one question is was the CHL (central hockey league) an equivalent league to the AHL and franchises' farm systems were just split between the two, or was the level of competition mullen faced in the minors lower than the AHL?

 

[Michael Farkas]

My impression is that the CHL in the 70's/early 80's was the best of the lot. It's tough to back that with a lot of confidence though, to be honest...

 

[The Panther]

I always wondered about this, also. I have no idea why. I believe @vadim sharifijanov is correct that Mullen was "slated to be a top guy on the miracle team, but he turned pro instead". (They actually mention him in the Disney movie, Miracle, when the players are getting together for Olympic team try-outs and one player says something about "Joe Mullen has 100,000 reasons not to be here", or words to that effect -- referring to his signing with St. Louis.)

In addition to the reasons mentioned (style, size, bias against US players and maybe against his New York accent!), Mullen always had, to me, a "lazy-looking" style on the ice. Like, he seemed to be floating around or moving slowly sideways rather than north and south. But, like all snipers, he knew when he take off and where to be. Anyway, I just wonder if his lazy-looking skating also turned some NHL scouts against him.

 

[decma]

In 79/80, when Mullen scored 40 goals and 72 pts in 75 games for Salt Lake, he was only the 4th leading scorer on his team.

Tony Currie, who was about nine months younger than Mullen, scored 24 goals and 47 pts in 33 games for Salt Lake that season.

Currie's 80-game pace was 58G and 114P,
Mullen's was 43G and 77P.

And Currie did fairly well during his time in StL that year, scoring 19 goals in 40 games.

So I don't think it was that unexpected that the following season (80/81) it was Currie who made StL while Mullen was sent down again.

Yes, Mullen did very well with SLC in 80/81, leading the league in scoring.
(The guy who was 2nd, with more GPG and PPG, at a younger age, was Tom Roulston).

The case for Mullen making the team out of camp in 81 was certainly stronger than it had been the prior year, but was it shocking that he didn't start 81/82 with StL?

As noted above, StL seemed fairly set at RW with Babych, Chapman, and Currie, and were just coming off a spectacular season. They decided to run it back with those three.

(Not only did they leave Mullen in SLC, they gave Paul MacLean to Wpg for practically nothing in the summer of 81, perhaps another indication of their confidence in Babych, Chapman, and Currie after the 80/81 season).

Then, after circumstances changed - injuries and/or declining performance by Babych, Chapman, and Currie, and further improvement by Mullen in SLC - they called him up.

In hindsight we know that Mullen went on to have a much better career than Babych, Chapman or Currie (or Roulston), but I think the decisions made at the time were reasonable given the circumstances. Or at least not so unreasonable that we need to reach too far to explain them.

 

[Michael Farkas]

When Mullen got up to the big leagues, it didn't take much for folks to recognize...he got a lot of praise from the broadcasting team of the Blues/Jets first round series in '82. They said he could be special. 12 points in 4 games...seen worse.

 

[Sanf]

I always wondered about this, also. I have no idea why. I believe @vadim sharifijanov is correct that Mullen was "slated to be a top guy on the miracle team, but he turned pro instead". (They actually mention him in the Disney movie, Miracle, when the players are getting together for Olympic team try-outs and one player says something about "Joe Mullen has 100,000 reasons not to be here", or words to that effect -- referring to his signing with St. Louis.)

In addition to the reasons mentioned (style, size, bias against US players and maybe against his New York accent!), Mullen always had, to me, a "lazy-looking" style on the ice. Like, he seemed to be floating around or moving slowly sideways rather than north and south. But, like all snipers, he knew when he take off and where to be. Anyway, I just wonder if his lazy-looking skating also turned some NHL scouts against him.

Mullens father suffered stroke before the 79-80. Even though at the time he denied it being the reason for decision to turn pro, but I would guess that it had affect. That is stated as the reason in his US hockey Hall Of Fame page even.

79-80 season seamed to be bit adjust season. I checked from the newspapers that he was near to callup even early at the season (but that emergency callup wasnt needed). But after that slumped even out of Salt Lakes lineup. So I guess that could be thrown as adjusting period.

80-81 I have only guesses for this. But at the end Blues were doing great that season. Maybe they just avoided to try to fix something that was not broken.

81-82 This is something I found from Minnepolis Star 6. January 1982 when he sort of made it.

Though he scored 68 goals in the minors, the Blues had no opening for him at right wing until they lost Bernie Federko and Blair Chapman to injuries.

"Joe never disappointed us when we brought him up in the past," said Berenson, "but he also never made the great training camp impression, either." Mullen, said his coach, seemed to save his goal-scoring for his minor league season. "He played well in the three games we had him here earlier, but he had trouble around the net. He never did what the Joe Mullen we watched in Salt Lake should be doing." Tuesday, Mullen not only set a club record with his two goals eight seconds apart, but he also made a fresh impression. "I'm glad this testing period is over for him; now he can settle in and relax a little bit," said Berenson. who can chase down line drives before they turn into doubles and triples.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

In 79/80, when Mullen scored 40 goals and 72 pts in 75 games for Salt Lake, he was only the 4th leading scorer on his team.

Tony Currie, who was about nine months younger than Mullen, scored 24 goals and 47 pts in 33 games for Salt Lake that season.

Currie's 80-game pace was 58G and 114P,
Mullen's was 43G and 77P.

And Currie did fairly well during his time in StL that year, scoring 19 goals in 40 games.

So I don't think it was that unexpected that the following season (80/81) it was Currie who made StL while Mullen was sent down again.

Yes, Mullen did very well with SLC in 80/81, leading the league in scoring.
(The guy who was 2nd, with more GPG and PPG, at a younger age, was Tom Roulston).

The case for Mullen making the team out of camp in 81 was certainly stronger than it had been the prior year, but was it shocking that he didn't start 81/82 with StL?

As noted above, StL seemed fairly set at RW with Babych, Chapman, and Currie, and were just coming off a spectacular season. They decided to run it back with those three.

(Not only did they leave Mullen in SLC, they gave Paul MacLean to Wpg for practically nothing in the summer of 81, perhaps another indication of their confidence in Babych, Chapman, and Currie after the 80/81 season).

Then, after circumstances changed - injuries and/or declining performance by Babych, Chapman, and Currie, and further improvement by Mullen in SLC - they called him up.

In hindsight we know that Mullen went on to have a much better career than Babych, Chapman or Currie (or Roulston), but I think the decisions made at the time were reasonable given the circumstances. Or at least not so unreasonable that we need to reach too far to explain them.

I can see 79-80 under your posting, but given the injuries it appears STL had
with Currie, Chapman and Crombeen missing 19, 25 and 14 games, it is odd Mullen got 0 games in '80-81, like hard to believe odd. Sounds like they opted for Crombeen for a combo physical and hopefully some goal scoring ability but were
really off the mark. They had a great year, so it gets somewhat swept under the rug.
Mullen plays 10-15 games he probably secures a position to start 81-82 and maybe
makes Team USA, but who knows.

The 1981 US Canada Cup squad had Neal Broten as a top 2C with 3RS games and less than 20SCPO games, so they did have a very important top 6 forward with barely
more than a quarter season experience in the NHL. Interesting, because I think Bob Johnson was the coach of the '81 team and the '84 US CC squad and he included many players on the US Team with either 0 RS NHL games (Olczyk and Jensen who were barely 18 and 19 years old) and two dmen with less than a half year RS experience in Chris Chelios and Mark Fusco. Makes me wonder if the '81 Team USA brass limited Johnson's player options with Mullen and Carpenter not getting an invite. Olczyk and Jensen's '84 inclusion shows me he may have included Mullen and Carpenter in '81.

 

[Jumptheshark]

This is where people are looking at him from the current era.

Why? Easy

1. Under sized
2. Came out of uni
3. Blues thought his first ahl sending was a fluke
4. Everyone under estimated him

Uni hockey was not respected by traditional hockey fans and scout till the mid 1990s.

He overcame a lot to get into the hall.

The guy came out of halls kitchen when it was truly hells kitchen.

 

[Neutrinos]

I think you're confusing Mullen with his St. Louis teammate Doug Gilmour

EDIT: Oops, I misread the title... I thought it said "Into Minors At 24?"

 

[Barnum]

I was born & raised in Greater Boston, graduating college in 1977. Was a longtime

. The other was Bobby Carpenter who was 6 YEARS YOUNGER, and was an NHL regular at 18 years of age, directly out of Massachusetts Catholic Conference High School League, before Mullen was a regular on STL.

because I will never understand how Bobby Carpenter beat him to the NHL as a regular player at 18...lol. Seems like maybe the biggest fail by an NHL org of a
player under contract, right under their nose. Like WTF!!!

For context, I got a hockey scholarship at one of the catholic schools just after Bobby Carpenter graduated. I think you might be misremembering the hype and the skills around Carpenter when he was at St John‘s. St John’s sold out the Garden for the finals and it was because everyone wanted to see the “Can’t Miss Kid” which was his nickname if you remember. Were you paying attention to HS puck after you graduated in 1977? Carpenter was entering HS as you were graduating college. .

For starters, Carpenter is a big boy, much larger than Mullen which will always be more desired in the NHL, size and skills and Bobby had both. You can’t teach size. I remember shaking Bobby’s hand when I was age 14 and entering high school and thinking my ass is going to get creamed playing against these guys if they were all like him.

Other people have already mentioned it but Carpenter was chosen over Mullen mainly due to the fact, Joey didn’t start playing organized hockey until he was 14, only a few years after learning how to ice skate. Conversely at the same age of 14, Carpenter was leading St John’s to state championships. Mullen missed out on alot of experience by starting out late.

With hindsight, Mullen was the better player in the end but Carpenter put up a nice career also.

 

[crobro]

Joe Mullen learnt to skate on Madison square garden his dad was the zamboni driver and let him skate to his hearts content before cleaning the ice

 

[Barnum]

Interestingly, 2 local Boston area players, one a contemporary in Bobby Miller

I had to look up Bobby Miller‘s earlier career because I don’t remember him much. The 5 month age difference appears to have been more than just an age difference. Again, as with Carpenter, Miller’s path the to NHL was more direct and traditional for Americans trying to reach the NHL at the time. Mullen started at BC, after 4 years in a league I doubt attracted scouts back in the 1970s. Mullen wasn’t even given a full scholarship to BC his first year, he paid out of pocket to attend BC because he was an athletic question mark for a free ride, he was given that scholarship in his sophomore year because he proven himself as a freshman. Mullen’s only hockey experience was in the NYJHL while Miller had already played close to 90 games for Team USA, one collegiate season at UNH and put in one season in the Q. That’s a big difference between the two, actually a major difference and your answer as to why Miller was drafted before Mullen.

In those days, your only chance to make the NHL was to run to Canada and play juniors up there and get noticed by scouts which is what Miller did, and also why guys like Roenick who left Thayer Academy to play in the Q, it was to get noticed. Mullen was down in the NYJHL completely unnoticed by scouts until he hit BC by which time Miller was already drafted.

 

[The Panther]

Uni hockey was not respected by traditional hockey fans and scout till the mid 1990s.

Your other points seem correct, but not sure about this one. The Flames stocked up on U.S. college/uni players from the mid-1980s and won the Cup.

I think you're confusing Mullen with his St. Louis teammate Doug Gilmour

EDIT: Oops, I misread the title... I thought it said "Into Minors At 24?"

 

[Barnum]

Your other points seem correct, but not sure about this one. The Flames stocked up on U.S. college/uni players from the mid-1980s and won the Cup.

Mostly true, as I remember it and I was involved in it as a youth player in the 70/80s. Every coach all told the best players, they needed to go to the Q if they wanted to make it to the NHL. My older brother was super good, scouted as a HS player (late 70s) we had scouts at the house trying to get him to go to the Q but my parents would not allow it. I had future NHLers on all my youth teams and in HS, alot of them went to the Q or switched from their hometown teams to one of the elite Catholic schools (in Massachusetts). It is true what you say by the mid 80s that attitude did start to change and US kids started going to college for puck but before that, it was all about the Q for us players in New England.

 

[Stephen]

A guy like Adam Oates came up through the college ranks in the mid 80s from the program at RPI having gone undrafted and split time in the AHL at 23 before he became a full on Red Wing at 24 in 1986.

A decade and a half later, Marty St. Louis had a similar experience.

Maybe it's just a small college guy thing. If you get a shot, you get it later. And you make a career out of it if you're really exceptional.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

This is where people are looking at him from the current era.

Why? Easy

1. Under sized
2. Came out of uni
3. Blues thought his first ahl sending was a fluke
4. Everyone under estimated him

Uni hockey was not respected by traditional hockey fans and scout till the mid 1990s.

He overcame a lot to get into the hall.

The guy came out of halls kitchen when it was truly hells kitchen.

I think NCAA hockey was validated with the majority of the hockey world by the 1980
US Olympic Team. Ramsey, Morrow, Christian, and Christoff were immediate
impact players and the 1980 Canadian Olympic Team produced a great
NHL player with NCAA background in Glenn Anderson, a good player from the NCAA
in Tim Waters, plus Randy Gregg from the Canadian University Leagues. Even earlier
I think there were players in the NHL at the end of the 1978-79 season that had top
6F or top 4D ability in that season. Reed Larson, Bill Nyrop, Mike Milbury, Mike Fidler, Steve Jensen and even Rod Langway who was somewhat buried on the last of the 1970's Montreal dynasty team, would have been a top 4D man on a majority
of NHL teams at the end of 1978-79 season.

I believe there were already 3 NYC area players from the NY Met Jr League in Fotiu, Hansen and Ahrens that had a minimum 12 games each with the Rangers, Islanders and North Stars by 1978-79. So, I think the hand writing was on the wall regarding
the US being an important talent pool.

There were still doubters certainly in NHL Mgt circles and possibly
STL harbored some at the GM and scouting levels that were roadblocks
for Mullen that equated him, a smaller US NCAA player, not tough enough to survive the NHL.

 

[JMCx4]

... i guess one question is was the CHL (central hockey league) an equivalent league to the AHL and franchises' farm systems were just split between the two, or was the level of competition mullen faced in the minors lower than the AHL?

The Central League was no more than a third-tier pro league (less talented pool than the AHL) during its incarnation from 1968 to 1984. It was just another place to develop and/or park players for the NHL.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

I had to look up Bobby Miller‘s earlier career because I don’t remember him much. The 5 month age difference appears to have been more than just an age difference. Again, as with Carpenter, Miller’s path the to NHL was more direct and traditional for Americans trying to reach the NHL at the time. Mullen started at BC, after 4 years in a league I doubt attracted scouts back in the 1970s. Mullen wasn’t even given a full scholarship to BC his first year, he paid out of pocket to attend BC because he was an athletic question mark for a free ride, he was given that scholarship in his sophomore year because he proven himself as a freshman. Mullen’s only hockey experience was in the NYJHL while Miller had already played close to 90 games for Team USA, one collegiate season at UNH and put in one season in the Q. That’s a big difference between the two, actually a major difference and your answer as to why Miller was drafted before Mullen.

In those days, your only chance to make the NHL was to run to Canada and play juniors up there and get noticed by scouts which is what Miller did, and also why guys like Roenick who left Thayer Academy to play in the Q, it was to get noticed. Mullen was down in the NYJHL completely unnoticed by scouts until he hit BC by which time Miller was already drafted.

I remained a watcher of Mass HS hockey through the late 1980's, but was a pretty intense fan during the 1976-77 through 1978-79 seasons, as my nephew played
for what was an essentially Public School powerhouse in Burlington HS
which dethroned Matignon in the 1978 EMass Finals in 3OT, after he lost to them as a Sophomore in the last minute in the 1977 State QF. He went into
the 1979 State Tourney the top seed, losing to Carpenter's St. John's Prep
squad 3-2. Yanetti was exclaiming how his SJP Team beat Burlington like they
were the '79 Canadiens...lol.

Would have been interesting to see how my nephews teams would have fared had they gotten Mark Fusco on his team in 1976-77, 1977-78 and Mark & Scott Fusco
on his team in 1978-79!!! My brother-in-law claimed they would have never lost a
game and won 3 straight titles. It wasn't hyperbole as Burlington LOST 9 GAMES
in those 3 years at Burlington HS, all ONE GOAL LOSSES and that group won back-to-back National Midget Championships with Burlington YH in 1976-77 and 1977-78
with Mark Fusco.

So I can say pretty confidently that I followed HS hockey when Carpenter played. While
not as close Carpenter's two final years, I still saw him play his Junior and Senior year
I only saw him play his Senior year I believe when he played for the 80-81 US Jr. Team against UMass Lowell.

Bobby Miller played 6 games in the CHL for Ottawa in the OHA, never played in the Q.after the 1976 Olympics but never in the Q.

Miller was a top 9F and one of the best US Forwards in hockey his first 4 NHL
seasons so I am not selling him short. Was always a plus skater in his career.

Now, your points about Mullen pre BC and even after his Freshman year at BC are
pretty much immaterial in this discussion because Mullen's Sophomore and especially Junior year at BC established him as an absolute elite NCAA Forward during '77-78.

He had eligibility issues his senior year (incidentally 2 of my nephews HS teammates
were Freshman teammates with Mullen) but was an absolute lock for the 1980 team
proving it in the '79 Worlds leading the US Team in Goals with several NHL Forwards
on the team.

By the end of the 1980-81, Joe Mullen at 24 with his two seasons of CHL production
absolutely should have broken training camp in the NHL same time as
Bobby Carpenter did with Washington. Its not any type of shot at Miller or Carpenter
but a shot at STL. I will say Mullen was worst case every bit as good as Carpenter when they broke camp in 1981-82.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Mostly true, as I remember it and I was involved in it as a youth player in the 70/80s. Every coach all told the best players, they needed to go to the Q if they wanted to make it to the NHL. My older brother was super good, scouted as a HS player (late 70s) we had scouts at the house trying to get him to go to the Q but my parents would not allow it. I had future NHLers on all my youth teams and in HS, alot of them went to the Q or switched from their hometown teams to one of the elite Catholic schools (in Massachusetts). It is true what you say by the mid 80s that attitude did start to change and US kids started going to college for puck but before that, it was all about the Q for us players in New England.

Prior to your group, players my age also went to the OHA. Bobby Miller as mentioned butalso Tom Rowe of Lynn, left either English\Classical to play two years in the OHA and Mike O'Connell left Archbishop Williams and played 2 years in the OHA, winning the award as top defenseman in
the OHA.

There were several other Boston area players who went to the OHA, even going back to Bobby Ring (Wakefield HS) in the mid 60's who played with Sanderson on the Niagara Falls Flyers. Ring got a game in the NHL coming in to replace the injured starting Boston goalie in the mid 60's.

I believe possibly at the beginning of the 1976-77 season the CHL gave the Q
territorial rights to New England players? I know my nephews Sophomore year
there was a legal case concerning Larry Tucceri coming back from the Q to play
for Needham High before the '77 State Tourney and he was allowed to play.

 

[Barnum]

I remained a watcher of Mass HS hockey through the late 1980's, but was a pretty intense fan during the 1976-77 through 1978-79 seasons, as my nephew played
for what was an essentially Public School powerhouse in Burlington HS
which dethroned Matignon in the 1978 EMass Finals in 3OT, after he lost to them as a Sophomore in the last minute in the 1977 State QF. He went into
the 1979 State Tourney the top seed, losing to Carpenter's St. John's Prep
squad 3-2. Yanetti was exclaiming how his SJP Team beat Burlington like they
were the '79 Canadiens...lol.

Would have been interesting to see how my nephews teams would have fared had they gotten Mark Fusco on his team in 1976-77, 1977-78 and Mark & Scott Fusco
on his team in 1978-79!!! My brother-in-law claimed they would have never lost a
game and won 3 straight titles. It wasn't hyperbole as Burlington LOST 9 GAMES
in those 3 years at Burlington HS, all ONE GOAL LOSSES and that group won back-to-back National Midget Championships with Burlington YH in 1976-77 and 1977-78
with Mark Fusco.

So I can say pretty confidently that I followed HS hockey when Carpenter played. While
not as close Carpenter's two final years, I still saw him play his Junior and Senior year
I only saw him play his Senior year I believe when he played for the 80-81 US Jr. Team against UMass Lowell.

Bobby Miller played 6 games in the CHL for Ottawa in the OHA, never played in the Q.after the 1976 Olympics but never in the Q.

Miller was a top 9F and one of the best US Forwards in hockey his first 4 NHL
seasons so I am not selling him short. Was always a plus skater in his career.

Now, your points about Mullen pre BC and even after his Freshman year at BC are
pretty much immaterial in this discussion because Mullen's Sophomore and especially Junior year at BC established him as an absolute elite NCAA Forward during '77-78.

He had eligibility issues his senior year (incidentally 2 of my nephews HS teammates
were Freshman teammates with Mullen) but was an absolute lock for the 1980 team
proving it in the '79 Worlds leading the US Team in Goals with several NHL Forwards
on the team.

By the end of the 1980-81, Joe Mullen at 24 with his two seasons of CHL production
absolutely should have broken training camp in the NHL same time as
Bobby Carpenter did with Washington. Its not any type of shot at Miller or Carpenter
but a shot at STL. I will say Mullen was worst case every bit as good as Carpenter when they broke camp in 1981-82.

Excellent correction, Miller was in the OHL, my apologies.

I remember scouts at all our games back then. I think that was the difference between Carpenter and Mullen. Bobby had been scouted since he was 14, probably before in Youth Hockey, I also remember scouts for my Pee Wee/Batam/Midget games too. Like I said I had a future NHLer on all of my youth teams and they were looking at him as early as 12 yrs old. Meanwhile Mullen was just joining a league that probably never saw a scout because it was NY/Jersey, not known in the 70s as a hot bed. Plus the size difference. That was a huge factor back in those days, size made for everything in the NHL. You are also 100% correct, Mullen was probably just as good as Carpenter in 81/82 but I think size was the difference. My opinion anyhow, I am wrong more than I right, so who knows.

Side note: You probably watched my brother play if you were that active with HS puck, he would have graduated in 78 or 79, right around the time your nephews were playing.

 

[Tie Probert]

This is a stretch for my memory so take it with a grain of salt, but some of this rings a bell. I think I recall Mullen being bit of a late bloomer, as in he didn't actually get onto the ice until a bit later than most kids do & rather playing roller hockey prior. I suppose this could have left him with some years of technical development on the back end that we as fans maybe wouldn't recognize, regardless of accomplishments up to the point where he broke into the NHL.