Why was Datsyuk drafted so late?

[TheBlueJacket]

Pavel Datsyuk is the best dangler in the NHL and arguably the best forward at defending. How can a player with so much talent be drafted 171st overall in 1998 and he was born in a pretty big hockey country to boot. It is pretty understandable for Zetterberg to be drafted that late, but not Datsyuk.

 

[elite1prospects]

because his numbers weren't that great playing for Yekaterinburg from 96-00 and they weren't good while he played for Kazan Ak-Bars in 01.


1996-97 Yekaterinburg Spartak Russia 18 2 2 4
1997-98 Yekaterinburg Dynamo Russia 24 3 5 8
1997-98 Yekaterinburg Dynamo Rus-1 22 7 8 15
1999-00 Yekaterinburg Dynamo Russia 15 1 3 4
2000-01 Kazan Ak-Bars Russia 42 9 17 26

 

[odin1981]

I believe if I remember correctly their was only one other team scout that potentially have seen him that year outside of the wings (memory says the blues but don't quote me). Also Pavs when he was drafted had weaknesses but he developed into his current skill set. He was pretty hated from what I gather on this site back in the 2002 era.

Both z and d developed into what they are today threw hard work, discipline, and confidence. They weren't even thought of as gangbusters back in their draft days.

 

[Wayne Crosby]

because he was undersized and production was questionable but hakan saw potential skill wise, so they took a shot in the dark with him.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

There's a chapter on this in the Book of Mormon.

 

[snailderby]

Here are some quotes from HFBoards in Datsyuk's sophomore NHL season, regarding the hypothetical of a Nash/Datsyuk trade:

Yeah, Datsyuk is great and all, but you guys would be majorly ripped off in a Datsyuk/Nash swap. Nash is a huge powerforward in the mold. He is constantly getting better, and already has 17 goals, which I think is either second or tied with Ilja Kovalchuk for the league lead. Sure, Datsyuk has 27 points in 27 games, but CBJ already has Nik Zherdev, who is a similar player to Dats (in a way) but Zherdev is bigger, and a better goal scorer. Datsyuk just started shooting more this season, and is very good passing the puck.

Reality, though, I love Dats on the Red Wings, and I don't want to trade him, ESP to the CBJ's. A line with Nash - Datsyuk - Zherdev would be DEADLY *although a defensive liability, lol* I will gladly take Zherdev or Nash off your hands though

Datsyuk is a very nice forward, especially in a situation in Detroit where he can be played with other highly skilled guys. In all fairness I see Datsyuk in much the same way I see a player like Alex Tanguay - very highly skilled but pretty much dependant on the presence of talented players on their line in order to produce. By the time Zetterberg (certainly) and Fischer (possibly) reach Datsyuk's current age I feel they'll be at least equivalent players, if not superior.

Datsyuk, to me, is fools gold. He'll give you good offensive numbers (60 - 70 points) but he's garbage in his own zone, and makes many mental mistakes. In fact, he's quite similar to Mike Comrie.

Zetterberg is the real burdgeoning superstar. He's the guy who reminds me of a young Naslund, and I think Zetts could be a 40 goal scorer someday.

I think you vastly overrate Datsyuk's offensive potential. He has the tendancy to look more dangerous than he is. Similar to Jocan Hecht. He looks like a better player than he actually is.

As far as Datsyuk's defensive play, I should also add that it's not always his inability to come back and break up plays, but he has a tendancy to give up terrible giveaways, particularly as his team is heading up-ice.

Don't get me wrong, he's a fine player, I think he'll make a decent 2nd line centre, but I don't think you can expect a 1st line player from Datsyuk.

Of course, even in his 2003 NHL sophomore season, most Red Wings fans were already beginning to see that Datsyuk had the potential to become something really special.

it shall be seen however i do believe datsyuk will easily slide into the #1 center spot after this season, zetterberg still has great potential, and a better 2 way game as many have already said, datsyuk's getting trickier as the months pass on, and for a smaller guy he can toss his weight around and use it to his advantage when others r tryin to check him... a very smart player... datsyuk, unless something happens will be a 1st liner easily

 

[Detroit Swed Wings]

.

Interesting angle. But couldn't similar posts be found regarding many players?
And if not, maybe the HF generation generally likes prospects more nowdays?

Either way, funny how things turn out.

 

[we like our team*]

he was generally thought of as a lazy floating choker on this site until around 07

 

[InjuredChoker]

“It was his last year as a junior player (1997-98) and I was going to Eastern Russia, to a city called Yekaterinburg, where the Czar was killed in the early 1900s,'' Andersson said. “The player I wanted to see was a defenseman, Dmitri Kalinin, ended up being drafted by Buffalo (18th overall in 1998).''

“As the game went on I saw this little centerman who was pretty good,'' Andersson said. “He worked hard up and down the ice, had good hockey sense. He broke up a lot of plays and had good skill. I went away from the game with a report on Kalinin, but also a report on this little kid.''

“I thought to myself, he's good enough to play on the Russian junior national team,'' Andersson said. “That could be bad because I don't think a lot of people know about him.''

But, Datsyuk didn't make the Russian World Junior team. That was good for the Red Wings because he remained in relative anonymity.

When Yekaterinburg played closer to Moscow, Andersson made another scouting trip, this one solely to see Datsyuk. He impressed again.

“Great hands, hockey sense, quick skater, little deceptive speed,'' Andersson said. “I don't think he was more than 5-9 or 5-10, skating just a little awkward. But the thinking and the hands were … ''

“In Russia, when you're going to see a player who lives outside of Moscow, it's a big process,'' Andersson said. “First I have to apply for this visa; they're really strict in Russia... every time you wanted to see a player outside of Moscow it's like a three- or four-day project.''

Andersson wanted to get a third look at Datsyuk before draft day, so he flew to Moscow later that season, only to get stuck in a snowstorm.

That was fine with Andersson. He had seen enough of Datsyuk to feel comfortable making a case to select him.

“Before draft day I talked to Kenny,'' Andersson said. “He looked at my list and said, 'What's this name?' So I explained who (Datsyuk) was, what I'd seen and what I thought, and he said, 'OK, keep him on the list.'

“As the draft went on we finally got to the point where all the 'good' names were gone. Kenny had the confidence in me to let me (choose), so we drafted (Datsyuk) based on what I said.''

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/06/red_wings_scout_hakan_andersso.html

Hakan Andersson, the European scouting director who is based in Stockholm, has been prescient. While in Moscow in the winter of 1997-98 to scout Dmitri Kalinin, a defenseman now with Buffalo, his eyes were drawn to "this little guy on the other team" -- a slender Datsyuk. After seeing him play a second time for Dynamo Yekaterinburg, Andersson added Datsyuk to his list of prospects. He was on his way to watch Datsyuk a third time when his connecting flight sat on the runway for five hours before being canceled because of a snowstorm. Andersson didn't see Datsyuk play that night, but neither did the other scout on the plane; Andersson is relatively certain he is the only NHL scout to have seen Datsyuk before Detroit selected him 171st in the '98 draft.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/michael_farber/06/03/cup.finals0609/

 

[Gyldenlove]

Funny how his 2-way game and own zone play was a thing people were knocking him for, considering he has won 3 Selkes, should have won a 4th and has been a finalist like 6 times.

 

[PullHard]

Come take a seat on uncle ES's knee, TheBlueJacket.

*sits down in rocking chair on front porch, takes out old pipe and packs tobacco in it and lights it*

Now I believe it was back in '97 or '98, the details are a little hazy now...

*a story similar to The Princess Bride is told*

 

[RedWingsNow*]

he was generally thought of as a lazy floating choker on this site until around 07

Which is why you should suspect anything that is "generally thought of" on this site.

 

[Heaton]

Which is why you should suspect anything that is "generally thought of" on this site.

Exactly why I go against the grain with Franzen!

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Exactly why I go against the grain with Franzen!

Hah. I didn't say go against the grain. I said "suspect."

People read commonly said things and adopt them too easily -- especially in areas that are hard to quantify -- like defensive ability.

In the history of their NHL careers, I don't believe Zetterberg has ever been better than Datsyuk. Datsyuk wasn't great on faceoffs early, but he was always a tremendous backchecker -- from day 1.
Yet people on this board, right up until Datsyuk began getting buzz as a Selke candidate, constantly called Datsyuk weak defensively.

You see this judging defensemen a lot too.
Ericsson was a hot shot when he first came up, with people talking about him as a future top pairing guy. Six months later he was vilified as a lazy idiot. Now he's talked about as a true #1 pairing guy.

He's none of those things. The general opinion around seems to swing back and forth on Ericsson without ever stopping to rest for some truth.

I don't think you're alone on Franzen. He's a polarizing player. I bet if you added up the votes, more have been voted for Franzen than anyone. People want him gone. People defend him vigorously.

Id say the camps are pretty even. 3-4 years ago, the "franzen haters" (I'm one -- I don't hate him, but you get my point), were few and far between.
But Franzen's playoff scoring abandoned him and Franzen's floating also turned a lot of people off.

 

[Birko19]

I don't even think that Hakan thought Datsyuk would turn into this kind of special player. I remember back then they projected him to be a Larionov type of player (NHL Larionov). Obviously he exceeded these expectations by a lot.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Here's what I wrote after the Wings vs Avs game in January of 02

Until the Red Wings took control of the game in the 3rd, Pavel
Datsyuk was the best forward on either team. I can't remember the last
time a young Red Wing forward showed this kind of promise. He's not
superfast, but he's a great skater. He has a decent shot. He's a
decent back checker. But his moves ... His moves are incredible.
Colorado defenseman just waved their stick at the kid. He makes some
incredible moves. He's still a bit shy and doesn't go to the front of
the net. If he does, he could develop into a 30 goal - 50 assist kind
of player. A fine 2nd line center, perhaps.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Here's another from January 2002

Wing's Most Dangerous 5-on-5 player?
In the past month?
Pavel Datsyuk.
Hands down.
I really hate to overload the frickin' bandwagon, but the kid has been
the Wing's best even-strength threat since returning to the lineup
Yzerman, Shanahan, RObitalle, Larionov and Hull seem like pretty
average players sometimes on 5-on-5 situations.
Fedorov has great speed, but he's been playing a lot of Defense and
his playmaking skills aren't the greatest.
Datsyuk is making things happen on almost every shift.

It was pretty clear

 

[Shawn Lutz]

There was an article from puck daddy the other day and had a good quote from Pavel

"The harder I work in practice, the more talented I become"

That was in response to the reporters question to him that some people say Datsyuk isn't as talented as others but works hard.

I like Pavel since his first few games in the NHL. You could tell he had good puck skill, decent speed and and a lot of room for growth. He's has been my favorite player since he came into the league. I feel so lucky to see just about every single game he played in for Detroit. Pavel learned to be a professional from some HHoF's in the org and watching how hard they really work at getting better and improving.

Another guy I have a real good feeling about is Nyquist. He's a lot like early Pavel. He is great with the puck, reads plays well, has decent speed and can score. He needs to put a bit more muscle and weight on his frame. I think he is going to be a real solid player and certainly top 6 skill. If he works hard like everyone else in the room he has tons of potential.

 

[RedWinger10]

This is at least the second time this has been a thread.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

There was an article from puck daddy the other day and had a good quote from Pavel

"The harder I work in practice, the more talented I become"

That was in response to the reporters question to him that some people say Datsyuk isn't as talented as others but works hard.

I like Pavel since his first few games in the NHL. You could tell he had good puck skill, decent speed and and a lot of room for growth. He's has been my favorite player since he came into the league. I feel so lucky to see just about every single game he played in for Detroit. Pavel learned to be a professional from some HHoF's in the org and watching how hard they really work at getting better and improving.

Another guy I have a real good feeling about is Nyquist. He's a lot like early Pavel. He is great with the puck, reads plays well, has decent speed and can score. He needs to put a bit more muscle and weight on his frame. I think he is going to be a real solid player and certainly top 6 skill. If he works hard like everyone else in the room he has tons of potential.

Nyquist has some of Datsyuk's shiftiness - but he's not even in the same ballpark.
Datsyuk pretty far ahead of Nyquist at the same age

 

[tfong]

I love this story everytime I hear it

 

[Detroit Sports*]

Lidstrom, Fedorov?

 

[Flowah]

Nyquist has some of Datsyuk's shiftiness - but he's not even in the same ballpark.
Datsyuk pretty far ahead of Nyquist at the same age

The number of people in the ballpark with Datsyuk in terms of shiftiness can be counted on one hand.

If Nyquist is even 50-75% as shifty, he's a winner in my book. A solid top6 who can play the possession game.

I don't even think that Hakan thought Datsyuk would turn into this kind of special player. I remember back then they projected him to be a Larionov type of player (NHL Larionov). Obviously he exceeded these expectations by a lot.

I don't know about Hakan, but it's pretty obvious the rest of Wings management didn't expect it. Devellano said that they had no idea he'd become the player he is today, where it's not crazy to have him in the discussion for best player in the world.

Datsyuk is the poster child for drafting on hockey sense. You can develop size, skill to a degree, speed somewhat, but I don't really ever see players' hockey sense going up.

 

[Bench]

*a story similar to The Princess Bride is told*

Tell it again, Uncle ES! Tell us about the Dread Pirate Datsyuk.

 

[snailderby]

The number of people in the ballpark with Datsyuk in terms of shiftiness can be counted on one hand.

If Nyquist is even 50-75% as shifty, he's a winner in my book. A solid top6 who can play the possession game.


I don't know about Hakan, but it's pretty obvious the rest of Wings management didn't expect it. Devellano said that they had no idea he'd become the player he is today, where it's not crazy to have him in the discussion for best player in the world.

Datsyuk is the poster child for drafting on hockey sense. You can develop size, skill to a degree, speed somewhat, but I don't really ever see players' hockey sense going up.

Reading some of the posts about Datsyuk on HFBoards back in 2003 also helped me understand why the Red Wings have often placed a premium on work ethic. There were a lot of posts about Datysuk's dedication to improving in every facet of his game.