WayTooCold
Canada for gold
- Jun 9, 2023
- 209
- 171
Why Switzerland and Finland have problems winning gold?
- Thread starter WayTooCold
- Start date
I flipped the coin 10 times and got eight tails and just two heads. I think my coin has a loser mentality.
Conspiracy Theorist
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2016
- 5,825
- 2,060
alko
Registered User
It feels strange bringing up Finland now, because in the recent years Finland has won finals on pretty high %. On men's level the bigger question is what happened to Sweden lately, because it feels like Finland and Sweden have reversed roles. Finland always used to come up little bit short of all gold medals and Sweden always managed to win everything but in the recent years I feel almost sorry for Sweden for not being able to produce even with super rosters and I don't even want to bring up their super rosters in the U20 in the last 20 year or so. Gold medals have been like opposite magnets avoiding them.
Grönborg was your Jukka Jalonen, but those days are over. It would be best for Sweden to try to lure him back with big money, especially now when we are getting many best on best tournaments as well.
Switzerland still needs to get their first gold ever and after they have won one championship, more may follow, but just getting to the final many times to me doesn't mean that they deserve anything. They have to have their Finland 1995 moment or Slovakia's first WHC gold medal moment, which happened around at the beginning of 2000 era if I remember right. Switzerland has to break that ice so to speak and until they can't, they dont' deserve a championship for free. That's why I didn't root for SUI to win this final. I didn't have a preference, but it was interesting to see if SUI could rise to the level that winning championship requires. They came a little short with that. Similar thing with Germany and how they choked against Russia at the end of that one final, was it Olympic final (with not best on best players of course)?
Grönborg was your Jukka Jalonen, but those days are over. It would be best for Sweden to try to lure him back with big money, especially now when we are getting many best on best tournaments as well.
Switzerland still needs to get their first gold ever and after they have won one championship, more may follow, but just getting to the final many times to me doesn't mean that they deserve anything. They have to have their Finland 1995 moment or Slovakia's first WHC gold medal moment, which happened around at the beginning of 2000 era if I remember right. Switzerland has to break that ice so to speak and until they can't, they dont' deserve a championship for free. That's why I didn't root for SUI to win this final. I didn't have a preference, but it was interesting to see if SUI could rise to the level that winning championship requires. They came a little short with that. Similar thing with Germany and how they choked against Russia at the end of that one final, was it Olympic final (with not best on best players of course)?
Last edited:
JabbaJabba
Registered User
6 gold medals from 12 finals. Wouldn't call that "knowing how to win". The real question is why in U20s Swedes have only 2 golds and 12 silvers, and in U18s they have 2 golds and 6 silvers. It's like they are growing losers.
Goose The Cat
Registered User
- May 22, 2023
- 80
- 87
Well, for Switzerland the problem is Fischer, obviously. /s
Been wondering about this myself. Switzerland had all the stars, their dream team and still no gold. I guess it's not just about the players. Something else is missing. They have to figure out what it is, because it's definitely not luck.
Been wondering about this myself. Switzerland had all the stars, their dream team and still no gold. I guess it's not just about the players. Something else is missing. They have to figure out what it is, because it's definitely not luck.
UFO
Registered User
Are we really comparing Switzerland with Finland?
I get the idea, that Switzerland likes to choke in the quarterfinals against lesser opponents. However, losing to Sweden and Czech in the finals is far from choking. Or did Switzerland completely melt down and blow a game they were supposed to win?
Just look at this year's roster. Josi, Fiala, Hischier and Niederreiter are top notch - while the rest wasn't. Perhaps the Swiss National League isn't as good as some people might think. Especially when it counts. The Czechs were the better team on paper and on the ice and rightfully deserved the title.
The truth is, there are several countries with far superior players and also with a greater number of good or better players. Switzerland's roster is very thin. Countries like Canada, Sweden, Finland, USA and the Czech Republic are (far) superior, while Germany and Slovakia are on a similar level.
Let's have a look at the active NHL players by nationality. Sweden 101, Finland 48, Czech Republic 32, Slovakia 11, Switzerland 10, Germany 8.
Switzerland isn't a hockey juggernaut.
Who knows, one day Switzerland might win a gold medal. It's not out of the question, but it's neither expected nor likely.
I get the idea, that Switzerland likes to choke in the quarterfinals against lesser opponents. However, losing to Sweden and Czech in the finals is far from choking. Or did Switzerland completely melt down and blow a game they were supposed to win?
Just look at this year's roster. Josi, Fiala, Hischier and Niederreiter are top notch - while the rest wasn't. Perhaps the Swiss National League isn't as good as some people might think. Especially when it counts. The Czechs were the better team on paper and on the ice and rightfully deserved the title.
The truth is, there are several countries with far superior players and also with a greater number of good or better players. Switzerland's roster is very thin. Countries like Canada, Sweden, Finland, USA and the Czech Republic are (far) superior, while Germany and Slovakia are on a similar level.
Let's have a look at the active NHL players by nationality. Sweden 101, Finland 48, Czech Republic 32, Slovakia 11, Switzerland 10, Germany 8.
Switzerland isn't a hockey juggernaut.
Who knows, one day Switzerland might win a gold medal. It's not out of the question, but it's neither expected nor likely.
OP should go back to stats 101 class.
Hint: Two sample proportional test.
Takeaway: Czech better than others even after Bonferroni correction for multiple comparisons.
Hint: Two sample proportional test.
Takeaway: Czech better than others even after Bonferroni correction for multiple comparisons.
You can laugh about it all you want but that still doesn't change the fact that he is a below average coach compared to what other national teams have. If this generation of Swiss players never win a gold medal, and that looks to be a fairly likely scenario now, he will have his fair share of the blame.
You got to look at every tournament individually. The 2013 team just overachieved. They never stood a chance against the superior Swedish roster. 2018 the luck just wasnt on our side. 2024 the top guys didn't come through for us in the end. Maybe they were to tired, maybe they just werent able. If you factor in other tournaments as well you have to question the top players ability to be at their best when it matters the most. Especially from Hischier I would like to see more when push comes to shove. Unfortunately he has been usually at his best in the group stage and far less effective in the knockout stage. He was a player the team could turn to on the junior national teams. I especially remember his great WJC performance in 2017 almost beating the US on his own. He hasn't lived up to his potential/ability on then senior NT though.
Last edited:
Did you take a look at the reffing in some of the finals? 2014 finals for example, Finland got numerous complete phantom penalties(tripping for Russian getting tangled up in his own feet, hooking with no hooking in sight, extremely soft cross check etc.) while Russia injured several Finnish players and received no calls, most notably Malkin cross check to Erik Haula's face which broke Haula's bones.
Finland doesn't have a habit of paying off refs.
And since 2011 Finland is 3 out of 6, which is just fine.
Keep in mind that in terms of material, Finland has just about never been the favorite.
Last edited:
SantosHalper
Get off my lawn
Bitterness lives strong in this one. It was a clear tripping call, i was there and saw it live.
You are probably right about the top guys being tired. Somebody even pointed out in some CZ newspaper before the final that it may be the case an advantage for Czech coach Rulik because he was rolling his lines more evenly. On the other hand, hard not to use Josi half of the time when you have this kind of player.
Yes, it has been discussed among Swiss fans on here if it was a smart move to force the top guys this much in the group stage. Sure there were games where the ice time was spread out a bit more but still often Josi was out there almost half the game. There was also the contesting view that the guys were used to it from the NHL. But I still think it affected the players because they already had a long regular season and some of them also some playoff games under their belt. All in all i felt like some of the guys were out of juice both in the semis and the finals. Now its hard to say if this could have been averted if the coach gave them a lighter work load in the group stage. But it was definitely noticeable.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Eye of Ra
Grandmaster General of the International boards
I hope the thread will be closed soon. The questioner only wants to make Finland bad. Add Switzerland to it so it's not so noticeable.
swissexpert
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2009
- 2,743
- 1,036
Oh come on, same song over again... Which "fact" are you referring to? It's your opinion, not a fact.
Yeah he needs to get the blame for silver sure, because our ambition must be gold and everything else is underachiement....
how delusional can you be?
This is (perhaps) our best generation. That doesn't mean it's the best hockey team ever, as you seem to have a little confusion here.
It's basically our average roster with Fiala, Josi, Hischier. Thats a great bunch of players but it's not like we should easily beat SWE, CAN or US purely on roster strength?!?
You act like MacKinnon, McDavid and Makar would join an already stacked team CAN.
Trying to sell a silver medal as failure, I've seen it all now..
FinPanda
Barkov Stanley cup champ!
I would've agreed Finland being in this if we went back like 10 years. Seems odd right now.
Last edited:
elmaco
Registered Hockey Fan
- Feb 1, 2017
- 2,568
- 1,700
It was hyperbole but still i would expect them to get to the finals every year.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
They’ve been there 7 of the past 9 years.
