Why isn't the OHL more popular?

[LDN]

I've been thinking there are maybe only 5 teams that sell out most of the time and there are so many teams the barely get 2000 people to a game. The OHL is a great league to watch, its affordable its fast and the skill level of the players is very high. Look at some of the players who have played here(McDavid, Kane ect.) I just find it hard to believe people aren't buying into this league. Is it a marketing problem? What could be done to boost attendance and popularity?

 

[Nabru]

It’s really not that affordable for the general admission fan anymore. It’s still not a bad deal for STH, but the price is getting up there even for them.

And the talent you spoke of isn’t in the league at the moment for a few reasons.

 

[buzzworthy]

Here in Pennsylvania it is a perception problem. When I mention the Otters, most people think it is a minor league team, and I have to go on and explain that it is sort of like NCAA level hockey. Our minor league teams do fairly well, from the Hershey Bears with better than London attendance to the ECHL Reading Royals, who do ok. Lehigh Valley sells out most games, and baby Pens in Scranton are so-so. Not bad when you consider the competition here in the states for the sports dollar. When I travel to see the Otters up to the great white north, I am often disappointed with the attendance, especially around Toronto. Yea, I get it. The Maple Leafs are everything. I don't know the answer.

 

[count35]

It’s really not that affordable for the general admission fan anymore. It’s still not a bad deal for STH, but the price is getting up there even for them.

And the talent you spoke of isn’t in the league at the moment for a few reasons.

Here in the Soo i've been told by quite a few people who were STH until the past few season's that cost is the main reason they didn't renew.

We haven't had a true...not the fake announced attendance where they count all the tickets, even no-shows....plus 4,000 crowd in a few seasons. You look around the rink and see it's usually anywhere from 400 to 700 less than announced!

We have local broadcasts of most of the home and away games on Shaw which could be one reason...especially when it gets crazy cold and snowy for the mostly older crowd, to not bother going out and watching it at home on TV!

 

[LDN]

What would you all say the solution is? lower ticket prices?

 

[massey]

What would you all say the solution is? lower ticket prices?

The only cure is to get it off the cable channel.Sit at home or go to the arena

 

[LDN]

Are all OHL teams profitable? is there any information on annual revenues for each team anywhere?

 

[OSA]

Controversial, but I think that the OHL crack down on fighting has led to a less physical product. Physicality often results in increased tension in games which brings out more passion in fans. This is especially good for rivalries. The OHL of >10 years ago was far more intense for fans IMO. The product is still good, but it was once much better.

 

[Generalsupdates]

Are all OHL teams profitable? is there any information on annual revenues for each team anywhere?

They released that stuff last year when the players getting paid lawsuit came out. Maybe I'm misremembering but I think close to half were profitable?

 

[ohloutsider]

They released that stuff last year when the players getting paid lawsuit came out. Maybe I'm misremembering but I think close to half were profitable?

Yes that info or the link to it is in the " CHL responds to court order" thread.

 

[Lycanthrope]

The only cure is to get it off the cable channel.Sit at home or go to the arena

Good point. At least blackout the game for the home team. Also $8.00 plus beer and expensive concessions don't help either. When you think about it bringing the family is anything but affordable for many. I have been thinking the same thing about attendance though and I too remember a much more intense league where the Wolves regularly drew over 4000 and were among the league leaders. At this point there are still many freebies going around, such that I wonder whether it's truly worth renewing my season tickets next year. Of course the Wolves are very likely to be more competitive so freebies may be in shorter supply. Also there is the aggravation of essentially panhandling for a ticket.

 

[OHLTG]

The problem I hear time-and-time again is prices. Fans want to see a winning team so why pay $20 a person for a ticket, then $10 a person for food/drink, and another $10 for miscellaneous (parking, program, etc.), when you can simply watch at home on TV? An option would be to black it out in the local market, say a 30-km radius, but I'm not sure that'd go over well with the casual fans. It's kind of a tricky situation. There are options for solutions, but you won't find one that pleases everyone.

 

[LDN]

DO teams make a lot off of TV?

 

[ohloutsider]

DO teams make a lot off of TV?

Nothing from the community programs that carry the games - not sure about the Sportsnet games.
Blackouts don't work - other leagues have tried and it has failed - if people don't see games on tv they have nothing to get them interested in going - out of sight/ out of mind is not a good idea for leagues looking to grow.

 

[EvenSteven]

Exactly! The CFL through blackouts alienated a generation of fans. Ask them how things are going these days in many of their markets.

 

[EvenSteven]

I have to agree with OSA. There was a time when you looked forward to your hated rival playing in your building. There was a different atmosphere in the air on those nights. If you were playing against a team from the opposite conference on a Friday night but playing your hated rival on Sunday, you looked ahead to the Sunday game. If you played against your hated rival on the Friday night, and then a team from the opposite conference came into your building on Sunday, the difference in atmosphere between the two games was night and day. It was actually a let down to have to play a team from the other conference after having played a rival because the intensity was nonexistent.

These days, every game is like it was playing against teams from the other conference years ago. It doesn't matter what colour the sweater is anymore. Sure as a Ranger fan, you might hate the London Knights, but these days games vs them are just as disappointing and vanilla today as out of conference games were years ago no matter how much the media or play by play guys try to hype it up.

 

[Fudgeo]

Blackouts would just create less exposure, they do more harm than good.
Maybe if the OHL streaming service was actually quality people would care, 240p broadcasts were considered garbage quality a decade ago and low framerate feeds are simply unwatchable.
Let me buy a yearly package and get access to literally every game played at any time with no commercials, all at 1080p 60fps. THAT would be worth paying for.


Entire game highlights like above and easy to navigate youtube channels could entice the would-be scouts here on HF and help people get more educated about players (prospects section of HF is just awful with people giving opinions of players they've never seen).

Teams actually communicating more than -not at all- would be nice too. Why doesn't every single team have the roster for the game 30 minutes before its starting available online on an easy to find place? Teams are shrouded in secrecy if you're not an insider of any kind. If teams want to be "The big show in town" on a friday night then they have to act like it and not some 90s relics who can't into internet.

 

[LDN]

Blackouts would just create less exposure, they do more harm than good.
Maybe if the OHL streaming service was actually quality people would care, 240p broadcasts were considered garbage quality a decade ago and low framerate feeds are simply unwatchable.
Let me buy a yearly package and get access to literally every game played at any time with no commercials, all at 1080p 60fps. THAT would be worth paying for.


Entire game highlights like above and easy to navigate youtube channels could entice the would-be scouts here on HF and help people get more educated about players (prospects section of HF is just awful with people giving opinions of players they've never seen).

Teams actually communicating more than -not at all- would be nice too. Why doesn't every single team have the roster for the game 30 minutes before its starting available online on an easy to find place? Teams are shrouded in secrecy if you're not an insider of any kind. If teams want to be "The big show in town" on a friday night then they have to act like it and not some 90s relics who can't into internet.

Is there anyone doing it right though? In your opinion? Are there any leagues doing it right. I would even say the NHL needs to improve if they want to grow the game

 

[Fudgeo]

Is there anyone doing it right though? In your opinion? Are there any leagues doing it right. I would even say the NHL needs to improve if they want to grow the game

Nobody is doing it right at the moment, which is very frustrating, and unfortunately I don't see the status quo changing very much in the next few years, as long as the leagues stay tethered to cable companies like Rogers.

The CHL has one thing the NHL will never have, the ability to market pro players before they turned pro. Surely there's a market out there that would pay some big money to see (for example) Erie games from when McDavid played there.
Why is this opportunity being tossed into the trash? Why do games have to vanish once they're over?

 

[OMG67]

Too many teams is an issue. Too many crappy markets. A watered down talent base.

Someone mentioned fighting. I think that is an issue as well. I am not saying there should be more fighting because of the long term injury risk but that person is correct. Less tension in the game for sure.

To me, 15 teams is the sweet spot for talent distribution. Poor teams picking in the second round are getting players that are first rounders right now.

The trading fiascos or buy and sell is also tedious for a lot of fans. That cycle started around 2005 and coincidentally that is when attendance started its decline. Loads of player movement has hurt the identity of a franchise.

Cost is the biggest issue though. I was buying a season ticket for $199 in Ottawa around 1995. Game Day Tickets at that time were on par with Cineplex movies. Now it is tough to get a ticket for $20 and Cineplex is sitting at $11.99. Franchises now charge way too much for parking as well as the online service charges etc escalate the costs artificially.

 

[rangersblues]

Ottawa is really feeling the effects apparently. Their owner Jeff Hunt makes an interesting comment about $9.50 beer and concession prices in general being too high.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...ate-their-history-amidst-an-attendance-crisis

 

[Tim Wallach]

Three massive factors cover it for me:

1. Price: At an average price of over $20 per ticket, plus whatever else you have to buy and it's an expensive night out.
2. Changes in the game: The intensity and physicality has dropped immensely due to new rules. I get player protection, but it has completely neutered the atmosphere. Surely there's a middle ground?
3. Competitive imbalance: Too much funny business is allowed and there are markets that feel they'll never be able to compete in luring players.

 

[bobber]

Ottawa is really feeling the effects apparently. Their owner Jeff Hunt makes an interesting comment about $9.50 beer and concession prices in general being too high.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...ate-their-history-amidst-an-attendance-crisis

Hunt is probably pissed because he makes five bucks a beer out of the $9.50 and fans are complaining about the price. I think its a dollar a swallow at the Aud in Kitchener.

 

[bobber]

Three massive factors cover it for me:

1. Price: At an average price of over $20 per ticket, plus whatever else you have to buy and it's an expensive night out.
2. Changes in the game: The intensity and physicality has dropped immensely due to new rules. I get player protection, but it has completely neutered the atmosphere. Surely there's a middle ground?
3. Competitive imbalance: Too much funny business is allowed and there are markets that feel they'll never be able to compete in luring players.

I was shocked that I was charged $3.50 for a bottle of water at the Aud. I was getting peed off at the increase in concessions so I sent an email to the Aud to complain about it. They sent it on to Bingemans who were running the stands at that time. I received a call from the lady that runs the office at the Aud. Nice lady whose name I forget. She went on to explain that the prices were necessary because of the high cost of operating the building and that the profits were being shared by Bingemans also. Apparently it is a standard operating procedure to over charge at venues. I received a call from Bingeman who was quite sour that I used the term "ripped off" in my email. He was quite upset that I would use that tone. The lady at the Aud said she would talk to them about giving us a free meal up in the restaurant at the front of the building which Bingemans ran also. I guess Bingeman told her what to do with that idea. How dare I question a multi millionaire charging more for water than the price of gold. The Aud has a waiting list for STHs. They could care less if a few fans gave up their seats I guess.

 

[OMG67]

I was shocked that I was charged $3.50 for a bottle of water at the Aud. I was getting peed off at the increase in concessions so I sent an email to the Aud to complain about it. They sent it on to Bingemans who were running the stands at that time. I received a call from the lady that runs the office at the Aud. Nice lady whose name I forget. She went on to explain that the prices were necessary because of the high cost of operating the building and that the profits were being shared by Bingemans also. Apparently it is a standard operating procedure to over charge at venues. I received a call from Bingeman who was quite sour that I used the term "ripped off" in my email. He was quite upset that I would use that tone. The lady at the Aud said she would talk to them about giving us a free meal up in the restaurant at the front of the building which Bingemans ran also. I guess Bingeman told her what to do with that idea. How dare I question a multi millionaire charging more for water than the price of gold. The Aud has a waiting list for STHs. They could care less if a few fans gave up their seats I guess.

I am not sure how each and every concession contract is outlined but typically, the company that provides the concessions only gets a small percentage of the actual sale. Out of that percentage they pay the staff and the cost of the product.

Back before Jeff Hunt took over the 67’s, it was separated into thirds. One third went to the City for the “rental” of the concession space. One third went to the Rough Riders because they held the food and beverage rights in the entire LAnsdowne PArk. The final third went to whomever the company was at the time that operated the concessions. So if there was a $3 bottle of water, the company running the concessions only got $1. Same goes for beer and all the other stuff. That one third needs to pay for all the variable costs (labour/food) etc.

At that same time, Kingston ran their own concessions out of the old rink and prices were way cheaper. This was because there weren’t three hands in the same pocket. Now with all the new rinks and concession deals. Prices are outrageous because of all the grubby fingers in the same pie.