Why isn't San Antonio talked about as an option for a second Texas NHL team?

[MMC]

A lot of people talk about the possibility of a NHL team being in Houston for obvious reasons, but why isn't San Antonio also talked about? There are 2.5 million people in SA Metro and only have one pro sports team, that plays in a arena that could be used for hockey as well.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

A lot of people talk about the possibility of a NHL team being in Houston for obvious reasons, but why isn't San Antonio also talked about? There are 2.5 million people in SA Metro and only have one pro sports team, that plays in a arena that could be used for hockey as well.

Why isn't San Antonio talked about? For a lot of good reasons.

San Antonio has never had an interested ownership group. And there won't be since there are only a couple hundred people in North America that can now afford a NHL team. Not having someone willing to drop $650 million for just the right to have a team is a non-starter. Just ask Houston. Fertitta didn't even want to pay half of the going rate so Bettman and Daly rightfully told him to get lost and there hasn't been an ounce of talk about NHL Houston in the year and a half since. Not sure who you are listening to that says the NHL in Houston is a possibility.

San Antonio has doubtful market interest. They only had the AHL for so long because the arena operators also own the NBA team and could pretty much operate the team with minimal expenses. They likely aren't big enough for the NBA and NHL. They're the same size as Portland and Orlando, that has been one of their many issues. At least Québec City is getting 15,000 people for the Remparts. Seattle has historically had excellent support for their two junior teams. San Antonio couldn't even profitably operate their AHL team despite not having to pay rent. So that's a non-starter.

San Antonio's AT&T Center is not set up for hockey. Not sure where you got the idea that it is. It is set up worse than Barclays Center. That isn't something that can be fixed without see Climate Pledge Arena-type renovations. Just because they can put a rink in there doesn't make it a viable NHL arena. So that's a non-starter.

The San Antonio Spurs operate but don't own the arena. So unless the Spurs owner Peter John Holt wants a NHL team, they will be a secondary tenant. And they just sold their AHL team because they have a complete disinterest in hockey (pretty sure they're invested in soccer). So that's a non-starter.

Need I continue? You're going to get some very bad results if you're just looking at population and what cities in North America have had a hockey team within the past 20 years.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Sub optimal arena.

 

[KevFu]

I think it's because no one is clamoring for THREE franchises in Texas, and if you have to choose between 2.5 million San Antonio, and 6 million Houston, you're going Houston.

Plus, an NHL team can move into the Rockets arena in months. San Antonio has an Islanders/Barclay's type situation.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

A lot of people talk about the possibility of a NHL team being in Houston for obvious reasons, but why isn't San Antonio also talked about? There are 2.5 million people in SA Metro and only have one pro sports team, that plays in a arena that could be used for hockey as well.

Their arena is like Brooklyn.

 

[KevFu]

Also, I'd go Austin over San Antonio since Austin has only MLS among the "big four" and San Antonio has the Spurs already. However, the new Austin arena wasn't designed to include hockey IIRC.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I think it's because no one is clamoring for THREE franchises in Texas, and if you have to choose between 2.5 million San Antonio, and 6 million Houston, you're going Houston.

Ehh, a team in San Antonio would also get Austin as TV market.

 

[Stephen]

I would choose Houston to have Houston, and not expand to the smaller San Antonio, only to expand to Houston later and have three Texan NHL teams.

 

[KevFu]

Ehh, a team in San Antonio would also get Austin as TV market.

I'd actually go Austin before I went San Antonio. Repeat the whole "first major pro sports team in" thing they did in San Jose, Nashville, Vegas, Raleigh, etc.

But a second Texas team really should happen. I think hockey popularity would get bigger in that state if you had Texans picking sides of a rivalry. A third Texas team wouldn't be out of the question to me, either. They have 29 million people in the state, markets 4, 5, 24, 29 (and 65, 69). It's a huge population to try and reach

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I'd actually go Austin before I went San Antonio. Repeat the whole "first major pro sports team in" thing they did in San Jose, Nashville, Vegas, Raleigh, etc.

Agreed. They got better chance of getting a proper hockey arena in Austin than San Antonio, for obvious reasons.

 

[Bondurant]

Why should San Antonio be talked about? Population and scarcity of a professional team aren't the only benchmarks to be hit.

 

[gstommylee]

I would choose Houston to have Houston, and not expand to the smaller San Antonio, only to expand to Houston later and have three Texan NHL teams.

San Antonio for a NHL team isn't going to happen especially not with the arena not being NHL capable.

 

[HisIceness]

San Antonio is one of those markets along with many others like SLC, Portland, Charlotte, Indianapolis, Nashville, etc. that are simply just not big enough for both the NHL and NBA.

You have to keep this in mind, the NHL and NBA combined play 82 home games. Attendance-wise where do these teams make their money? A good chunk of it is people buying the suites and higher-priced seats. You can't just rely on Joe Smith and his family to buy the $25 or whatever seats all the way up in the rafters and expect it to work long-term. The smaller the market, the less the sports dollar stretches.

I don't know the "merits" of SA as a "Hockey town" (it sucks that they are losing the Rampage but that's another discussion) but I do know this, SA has one of the most successful NBA franchises ever playing in their city. This franchise is also one of the "models" for small-market success in any sports league across North America. People in SA love the Spurs, they also like Football. Some of you may remember the city was trying to get the Saints to relocate there after Katrina, and even before Katrina as well. I was surprised to see a Dallas Cowboys pro team store in Downtown on my one visit there many years ago but I also noticed many people walking around wearing Cowboys gear. There didn't seem to be a lot of interest in Hockey there. Is an NHL franchise in SA a good investment when they'll have the Spurs and Football (not just NFL either) to compete with? Not really.

If the NHL was interested in Texas outside Houston, then Austin would be their city, that is if an owner or group of owners could be found, and also an arena. But Austin seems to "fit" what the NHL likes and already has. It's fast-growing, loaded w/ transplants from all across the USA, there's corporate support (Whole Foods, Dell, Keller Williams realty), it's a university town, it's a young town, and it's similar to the other small-market US NHL towns (Nashville, Raleigh, Columbus). Frankly it's a no-brainer over San Antonio should the opportunity arise.

 

[KevFu]

San Antonio is one of those markets along with many others like SLC, Portland, Charlotte, Indianapolis, Nashville, etc. that are simply just not big enough for both the NHL and NBA.

You have to keep this in mind, the NHL and NBA combined play 82 home games. Attendance-wise where do these teams make their money? A good chunk of it is people buying the suites and higher-priced seats. You can't just rely on Joe Smith and his family to buy the $25 or whatever seats all the way up in the rafters and expect it to work long-term. The smaller the market, the less the sports dollar stretches.

I don't know the "merits" of SA as a "Hockey town" (it sucks that they are losing the Rampage but that's another discussion)

There didn't seem to be a lot of interest in Hockey there. Is an NHL franchise in SA a good investment when they'll have the Spurs and Football (not just NFL either) to compete with? Not really.

If the NHL was interested in Texas outside Houston, then Austin would be their city, that is if an owner or group of owners could be found, and also an arena. Frankly it's a no-brainer over San Antonio should the opportunity arise.

Agree on everything, but to the bold statement: How can you tell without a focal point? You can't see a San Antonio NHL team shop when they don't have a team.
After a dozen trips to Vegas, the first evidence I saw while in Vegas that anyone cared about hockey was walking into their arena during their inaugural season and seeing 15,000 people in Knights gear.

Without a focal point, you're relying on just happening to walk by people who happen to be wearing one of the NHL/hockey apparel items they own on the day they happen to be wearing it. Out of 50 or so choices in their wardrobes?

 

[HisIceness]

Yeah I get what you're saying @KevFu Just an observation I made while there but you're right and good point about Vegas too. I myself was skeptical of them supporting the Knights at first but I can admit I was dead wrong there.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Because it'd likely go to Austin first and they'd put their AHL team in San Antonio/Houston.

As for the Dallas Stars they'd probably put the Texas Stars within Texas.

 

[gstommylee]

Because it'd likely go to Austin first and they'd put their AHL team in San Antonio/Houston.

As for the Dallas Stars they'd probably put the Texas Stars within Texas.

Who says the NHL is even interest in Austin...

 

[hanshin44]

I know Austin. Austin is not a hockey region. Austin isn't a good place for a team. San Antonio is not a good place for a team either. Only reason Houston is ever mentioned is because it's a big city with lots of money and the owner of the Rockets has expressed interest.
I'd much rather see the Nordiques return over Austin or San Antonio, especially with them having a great (from what I've heard) arena that just got built.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Because it's much smaller than Houston and already has an established NBA team that they'd have to compete against for the market's disposable income during their near identical season/postseason schedules.

Houston or bust for a 2nd NHL team in Texas in all likelihood.

 

[StreetHawk]

Arena configuration ends SA's chances. No different than any other city that has a basketball specific arena. GS's new arena, Chase Center, they asked SJ Sharks if they want to join them, but when they said no, it was configured to be basketball, so no team in the future will be playing there.

Fiserv Forum in Milwaukee, their wiki page does not list hockey attendance capacity. just has capacity at 17341, so very likely it's also basketball specific, meaning hockey is down to like 12K or something for attendance.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

The San Antonio/Austin area should be a prime target ALONG with Houston.

Texas will have 40 million people by 2035. Texans take to hockey better than other Southern regions. It offers a further opportunity to make Hockey a great entertainment option for the Hispanic market (like Arizona is doing).

Think outside the box on Texas, and focus on potential. The arena and other issues will sort themselves out if people with money and vision feel the same as I'm suggesting for the potential. Maybe an new arena in Austin (with or without UT), maybe in San Antone, or maybe half way between the two and market it as Central Texas for a very large local market appeal (San Marcos/New Braunfels).

Remember Texans think big and this is a GROWING region.

 

[Mightygoose]

As others have said the arena's configuration is not suitable for the NHL. More importantly, the arena is operated by the Spurs' ownership. Without their involvement there is no chance.

Nearby Austin has similar challenges as the new arena doesn't accommodate the NHL's requirements. Plus it's operated by OVG eventually to be operated by UT. Again, no opportunity for an NHL team to earn enough revenue to be viable.

With 2 large modern arenas in the region, it will be difficult to make a business case for a 3rd keeping the NHL out for least a generation.

With Feritta not willing to pay what the NHL wants for a team makes it a challenge for Houston.

Dallas might as well change their name to the Lone Stars since it will be the 'lone' team in the state for the foreseeable future.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Fiserv Forum in Milwaukee, their wiki page does not list hockey attendance capacity. just has capacity at 17341, so very likely it's also basketball specific, meaning hockey is down to like 12K or something for attendance.

Fiserv Forum includes 17,385 seats for basketball, 15,178 for hockey

https://uwbadgers.com/news/2020/3/3...tourney-set-for-fiserv-forum-in-december.aspx

And that's with the weird ass seating configuration they have for this tournament.

 

[JMCx4]

... https://uwbadgers.com/news/2020/3/3...tourney-set-for-fiserv-forum-in-december.aspx ...

Too bad that tourney is unlikely to be held. That's an attractive lineup of teams.

 

[KevFu]

Yeah I get what you're saying @KevFu Just an observation I made while there but you're right and good point about Vegas too. I myself was skeptical of them supporting the Knights at first but I can admit I was dead wrong there.

That's not to say I think we should throw an NHL team everywhere and see who bites! Hahaha.

I'm just saying, that most people who can afford to bring an expansion team to a city didn't get the uber wealth required to do so by being dumb. So when Bill Foley ponies up the cash for an expansion team, you assume he's done his due diligence in assessing the market (however that is done).