Why is there fighting in hockey?

[nystromshairstylist]

As some of the other posters who've read my posts know, I am new to hockey, and will be just taking lessons in a few months - but have always wondered why does fighting exist in the first place in hockey, and why is it considered such an integral part of the game?

I played competitive league basketball, and I never saw a single fight. An NBA fight is rather rare, and while the NFL is probably the most violent sport I can think of, scrums occur - but not the one-on-one stuff you see in hockey where everyone stands around including the referees while the 2 fighters smack each other.

It is obviously so ingrained in hockey there are even players called "goons" who are there just for that purpose... I'm not saying hockey is not a violent, intense sport, but so are other sports, and they do not consider it a fundamental part of the game.

I guess when I start playing this spring it might become more clear, but having watched the NHL for decades, it just never translated over to me, perhaps I'm too dense...

 

[Hockeyfan68]

As some of the other posters who've read my posts know, I am new to hockey, and will be just taking lessons in a few months - but have always wondered why does fighting exist in the first place in hockey, and why is it considered such an integral part of the game?

I played competitive league basketball, and I never saw a single fight. An NBA fight is rather rare, and while the NFL is probably the most violent sport I can think of, scrums occur - but not the one-on-one stuff you see in hockey where everyone stands around including the referees while the 2 fighters smack each other.

It is obviously so ingrained in hockey there are even players called "goons" who are there just for that purpose... I'm not saying hockey is not a violent, intense sport, but so are other sports, and they do not consider it a fundamental part of the game.

I guess when I start playing this spring it might become more clear, but having watched the NHL for decades, it just never translated over to me, perhaps I'm too dense...

Your question should be ... "Why ISN'T there any fighting in hockey"?

You rarely see fights anymore in the NHL.

In today's NHL these days a guy gets cleaned out with a clean hit and a fight breaks out. Ridiculous .... all of a sudden hitting is taboo too.

To answer your question though ... fighting is in hockey because it is a competetive physical contact almost constantly throughout a game. Even when lined up on a face off you are touching the guy next to you and jostling for position on him.

The other sports do not do that and your basketball analogy doesn't jive because nobody can touch the other guy except for some chest bumping or if you can get away with an elbow.

The only sport where fighting should happen and doesn't really is American football (not soccer you Euro guys reading this). I think it is because the physical contact is planned and structured.

In football you have more of a strategized physical contact meaning guys line up and block each other. It is planned contact meaning that a guy receives a pass from a set play and a defender hits him as he catches the football and then the play is over.

In hockey you get a whack in the shin or ankle and the play keeps going, the guy has irritated you so as you skate up to him you drive him with a good hit into the boards to get the puck.

I suppose if in football the goal was to knock the guy off the football so you could then have it there would be similar fighting instances.

I hope this answers you question, if not .... well I do not know what to say after that.

 

[wildebeest]

In a game where there are few stoppages in play and the pace is as fast as it is in the NHL, there are going to be guys who take advantage of these circumstances by hacking, tripping, cross-checking, elbowing and what have you as a means to gain advantage. Inevitably, the officials are going to miss a decent amount of this type of contact, which is not only against the rules, but can be quite dangerous for the player on the receiving end of it. Fighting is tolerated as a method in which the participants are "held responsible" for their actions. You'd be a lot less likely to take a hack at somebody like Marian Gaborik as they fly past you knowing that if such actions drew the ire of Donald Brashear, you'd be forced to absorb several punches to the face. Simple as that.

 

[BadHammy*]

It's a necessity, but is too often being misused. In adult rec leagues, once a team gets down 6-1, it becomes time to pick fights. If a team I'm on is down 6-1, it's time to fight back on the scoreboard.

 

[stick9]

In today's NHL these days a guy gets cleaned out with a clean hit and a fight breaks out. Ridiculous .... all of a sudden hitting is taboo too.

Bravo man.... finally someone who thinks the way I do. I can not stand fights that occur after clean legal hits. It actually deters hitting.

The reason fighting in hockey is allowed is because the people running the show are a bunch of farts living in the past. They still believe it's part of the game a viable method of eliminating cheap or dirty hits. We all know that's a load of donkey because cheap and dirty play is almost common these days. Way back in the day the ref's would let the boys play (ie police themselves). If someone got out of line, they had to answer the call physically. There were no staged fights or players who's sole purpose was to fight. As the game progressed and players became more skilled this morphed into the role of the enforcer. The enforcer would skate around and make sure everybody was playing good honest hockey (ex: Dave Semenko skating alongside Wayne Gretzky). As the game got faster and more skilled the enforcers were moved to 3rd and 4th lines and given marginal ice time (pretty much what we see today). They don't really enforce anymore because of a little thing called the instigator rule.

The reason fight still exists is because the NHL brain trust is too stubborn to admit it's no longer a viable method of enforcing the rules.

My personal opinion, it's days are numbered.

 

[stick9]

It's a necessity, but is too often being misused. In adult rec leagues, once a team gets down 6-1, it becomes time to pick fights. If a team I'm on is down 6-1, it's time to fight back on the scoreboard.

Anyone picking fights in a mens rec league is a loser. If there is one thing I truly hate it's heros on ice.

 

[wondeROY]

You rarely see fights anymore in the NHL.

huh? Fighting is up 33% this year over last year. Not sure what teams you watch, but i have seen a ton of fights this year. Perhaps the eastern conference doesn't fight as much?

 

[BadHammy*]

Anyone picking fights in a mens rec league is a loser. If there is one thing I truly hate it's heros on ice.

I completely, totally agree. The only exception to that rule is if someone has been cheap-shotting me all season. Then I eventually lose it, run up to them and drop the gloves.

 

[Hockeyfan68]

Bravo man.... finally someone who thinks the way I do. I can not stand fights that occur after clean legal hits. It actually deters hitting.

The reason fighting in hockey is allowed is because the people running the show are a bunch of farts living in the past. They still believe it's part of the game a viable method of eliminating cheap or dirty hits. We all know that's a load of donkey because cheap and dirty play is almost common these days. Way back in the day the ref's would let the boys play (ie police themselves). If someone got out of line, they had to answer the call physically. There were no staged fights or players who's sole purpose was to fight. As the game progressed and players became more skilled this morphed into the role of the enforcer. The enforcer would skate around and make sure everybody was playing good honest hockey (ex: Dave Semenko skating alongside Wayne Gretzky). As the game got faster and more skilled the enforcers were moved to 3rd and 4th lines and given marginal ice time (pretty much what we see today). They don't really enforce anymore because of a little thing called the instigator rule.

The reason fight still exists is because the NHL brain trust is too stubborn to admit it's no longer a viable method of enforcing the rules.

My personal opinion, it's days are numbered.

Unfortunately I agree with you ... fighting the way it is now as being a tool to pick your team up after it was just scored on in a staged fight is pretty lame.

The kids today have not watched a hockey game before the instigator rule and I guess do not know what we are talking about.

I can tell you this I WANT THE INSTIGATOR RULE GONE! I am very serious about that too. I hated it when they came up with it and I still hate it.

These cheap hits knowing nobody will beat the crap out of them for doing it are happening because of the instigator rule.

Just my opinion.

 

[Joe Cole]

Why is their fighting in Pro Hockey... because it is part of the game. Simple.

There are no field goals in hockey. There are no three point shots in hockey.

there is fighting in Pro Hockey. If you do not like that, no problem, there are plenty of other sports to fill up your time.

I am sick to death of the whole "football vs hockey" comparison.

Apples do not taste like oranges either.

 

[stick9]

Why is their fighting in Pro Hockey... because it is part of the game. Simple.

There are no field goals in hockey. There are no three point shots in hockey.

there is fighting in Pro Hockey. If you do not like that, no problem, there are plenty of other sports to fill up your time.

I am sick to death of the whole "football vs hockey" comparison.

Apples do not taste like oranges either.

I think he's looking for something a little deeper. Like why is part of the game, and where or what did it stem from.

No field goals, no three point shots but tie games are decided by a shoot-out with the losing team getting a point.

 

[Injektilo]

it's simple, there's fighting in hockey because it's allowed. There are plenty of leagues where it's banned, and it's still hockey.

if fights were met with an instant 10 game suspension, (like leaving the bench to join a fight), you'd never see them.

Why is it allowed? Everyone has a different answer for that. But one is probably that it's always been allowed, long before the NHL existed, and no one has seen fit to ban it.

 

[ChiTownHawks]

I think fighting is still in hockey b/c as others have said it is a sport with so much quick physical contact that it is almost impossible to not get frustrated with someone out on the ice. The players in NHL for the most part police themselves out on the ice. If you hit someone on the ice you're not supposed to, or go after one of the little guys then one of the bigger guys from their team is going to clean your clock. You would never see something like this in the NFL, which is why many of the players are dirtbags b/c they know they can do what they want on the field and not be held accountable for it. In the NHL everyone is accountable, which is why for the most part the guys all have respect for each other.

 

[OneMoreAstronaut]

it's simple, there's fighting in hockey because it's allowed.

No one has yet answered the real question the OP is asking here, though. Yes, fighting is allowed. The question is, why is that so?

Answering that fighting is allowed in hockey because the game is fast doesn't really add up, either. As an allegory, that's like asking: Why did this automobile accident occur? Answer: Because the driver was going fast. When in reality, the accident occurred because a pinion rod broke in the steering column. As an example.

This seems a more appropriate question for the History of Hockey forum, to be honest. What historical significance or event led to the allowing of fighting in hockey? Who was the hockey figure who chose that fighting, as a rule, would be allowed? What were his reasons for deciding this?

As it stands currently, I sometimes think of fighting in hockey to be akin to America's gun laws (I'm somewhat interested to see if I'll catch flack for this comparison, or if someone might actually agree with me). Why can Americans bear arms? Because it was put in the constitution long ago, theorized by some to possibly defend the country against the British, and it's citizens are now accustomed to it and defend it vehemently. Why can hockey players fight? Because that's the way it has been for a long time, and likewise, many people enjoy it and are accustomed to it and defend it similarly. But, that theory doesn't answer your question either - it's just a personal comparison

 

[stick9]

I think fighting is still in hockey b/c as others have said it is a sport with so much quick physical contact that it is almost impossible to not get frustrated with someone out on the ice. The players in NHL for the most part police themselves out on the ice.

That's what the NHL would like you to believe. If that was actually the case we wouldn't see the amount of hits to the head and hits from behind we see now.

If you hit someone on the ice you're not supposed to, or go after one of the little guys then one of the bigger guys from their team is going to clean your clock.

That's the problem and has been since the 80's. Everyone should be fair game. As long as the hits are clean, of course.

You would never see something like this in the NFL, which is why many of the players are dirtbags b/c they know they can do what they want on the field and not be held accountable for it.

I disagree, you don't see it in the NFL because guys know physcial play is part of the game. This is a game where 300+ pound LB's are going after 190 pound WR's at full speed. You cross the line in the NFL you're team is penalized and you're suspended.

In the NHL everyone is accountable, which is why for the most part the guys all have respect for each other.

By respect you mean not cross checking each other in the face, hitting someone when their back is turned, or leaving your feet to hit them…..?

 

[CanadaBacon]

The instigator is not perfect but if it gets tweeked a bit it will be fine.

The three instigators = two game suspension should be modified

"A player who instigates a fight in the final five minutes of a game will receive a game misconduct and an automatic one-game suspension. The length of suspension would double for each additional incident." Dont think that is such a bad rule.

In '92 when the rule was brought in to the NHL, the whole "if you start a fight, you will sit for an extra 2 minutes" was in and of itself a way to bring fighting under control. If you want to fight be prepared to take an extra two minutes. The side effects of the rule is what the NHL wasnt prepared for.

If/when you mod the rule ie give a little more leeway to police, there will be no reason to take the rule out of the game.

 

[CanadaBacon]

That's what the NHL would like you to believe. If that was actually the case we wouldn't see the amount of hits to the head and hits from behind we see now.



That's the problem and has been since the 80's. Everyone should be fair game. As long as the hits are clean, of course.



I disagree, you don't see it in the NFL because guys know physcial play is part of the game. This is a game where 300+ pound LB's are going after 190 pound WR's at full speed. You cross the line in the NFL you're team is penalized and you're suspended.



By respect you mean not cross checking each other in the face, hitting someone when their back is turned, or leaving your feet to hit them…..?

The NHL is EXTREMELY tame to what it once was, the amount of head shots and hitting from behind is nowhere close to what it once was.

 

[stick9]

To add, even though fighting is allowed it's actually against the rules. Which is why penalties are assessed.

 

[noobman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_in_ice_hockey

It's the first search result in Google.

 

[stick9]

The NHL is EXTREMELY tame to what it once was, the amount of head shots and hitting from behind is nowhere close to what it once was.

True, but that was during a rather short period of time. A time in which fighting was far more prevalent.

History shows, fighting has done nothing to prevent cheap or dirty play. More so now because unlike years ago not everyone fights.

 

[CanadaBacon]

True, but that was during a rather short period of time. A time in which fighting was far more prevalent.

History shows, fighting has done nothing to prevent cheap or dirty play. More so now because unlike years ago not everyone fights.

im not sure read I this as how you meant it but the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's wouldnt be considered a rather short period of time.

 

[nystromshairstylist]

I think he's looking for something a little deeper. Like why is part of the game, and where or what did it stem from.

No field goals, no three point shots but tie games are decided by a shoot-out with the losing team getting a point.

Correct. I'm not making any kind of value judgement, I am just curious how it came about, and the explanations so far seem to be that it is due to light officiating, requiring players to have to enforce a code of conduct.

While hockeyfan68 and others believe that that is preferable to a more tightly-officiated type of game, others believe that if the rules were strictly enforced, retaliation fights for cheap shots, slashes and other illegal acts not caught be the refs would not be needed.

Personally, I'm just not experienced enough having never played ice hockey to give an opinion. I also know that most of the action in an NHL game is not on the monitor following the puck; its actually away from that focal point - which is what makes it such an interesting, complex and fascinating game.

But if its accurate that players do try to pull unacceptable nonsense away from the puck, it means that viewers won't see it going on between players, but will just see the end result, i.e. - a fistfight.

 

[stick9]

im not sure read I this as how you meant it but the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's wouldnt be considered a rather short period of time.

That was in response to your comment about todays NHL being tame to what it once was. Yes it was always violent, but it wasn't always dirty and cheap.

 

[CanadaBacon]

That was in response to your comment about todays NHL being tame to what it once was. Yes it was always violent, but it wasn't always dirty and cheap.

There is a long history of the NHL that certain implies that "dirty and cheap" were infact a big part of the game, for many decades.

 

[OCanada]

In hockey there are 225 lb guys traveling at speeds that over double that of any other sport, throwing their full weight into opposing players. Sometimes clean, sometimes not. Hockey is an intense, high speed, physical game with no out of bounds played by big brutes with sticks. Liberties can and are taken on some players either by a dirty hit or with the stick. Fighting DOES help keep the cheap shots down a certain amount. It also helps hold players accountable.