Why is Finland better then Sweden at junior level but worse at senior?

[Raimo Sillanpää]

If that was the case then why isn't Sweden dominating football after winning the 2015 U21 championship.

1 year later?
Too early to make any judgements.

One WJC doesnt make or break anyone, several in a row do. When you have a good 5 year stretch.

 

[Don Corleone]

Oh please the answer is so obvious. Sweden has had the better talent always and still has. Not going to list present and past names but there is no argument to be made that Finland is better at the senior level. The list of all time Finnish greats have only a few truly great players and the rest are just good, whereas Sweden has had many all time greats and current and future Hall of Famers. Most often for Finland to medal they have to overachieve, the Swedes don't. Sure Finland has what 4 junior golds but Sweden has 10 silvers along with a few golds, so lets not pretend Finland is better at that level either. The past few years have been great but you have to look at the big picture. If Finland would be so great then why is it that the Swedes absolute annihilate the Finns with their group of current generation players? Look at the massive difference of the rosters of these two teams at the World Cup, it is huge. Finland will not be able to assemble a D core that is even remotely close to Sweden at least for a decade.

 

[Snowsii]

Easy question. Sweden has far more depth and elite talent born between 1987-1994. After that one could say that finland has the upper hand by a small margin. The wjc gold doesn't per automatic equal sucess at senior level. If that was the case then why isn't Sweden dominating football after winning the 2015 U21 championship.

It takes time for players to mature.. As someone pointed out, that Canada were strong earlier in WJC's and it's showing now ( though they would be anyway)

Those 2015 players, are at their best years 2019 -> ? (Dont know, when a footballer is at his peak, but i assume it's around 25 years)

As Finland has been strong at WJC, but those guys are ready earliest 2018 etc..

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Yea Finland took a huge leap in prospect development + they're finally giving the big guys time to develop rather than just going for the earlier blooming small speedy juniors.

3 out of the top 5 players selected in the 2016 draft were Finnish, with the 2017 draft looking even deeper in talent.. that's just ridicolous

 

[Jarey Curry]

Swedens core is at their prime, Finlands core is just getting there

 

[Booster*]

The whole 1980s and into about 1994 born has basically no stars (except goalies)

Players born 1994-1999 show great promise. 2016 is not a good year for Finland to play best on best, especially when coaches rank Korpikoski etc ahead of of Pulju, Rantanen etc, there are even way better grinders like Salomäki availabe.

2018 is still early, best players are around 20 years. 2020 and onwards Finland will be very competative vs the best in the world. Only concern is actually ironically goalies

 

[BonAppleTea]

Finlands young team the last few years have simply been better with their new generation of players.

But to the people going on about senior level... c'mon. Lots of things happen during year 18-21 of a players life, some talents bust, some rather unknowns rise. Sweden has a bigger pool to choose from and that should, with proper management, result in a deeper senior team.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The whole 1980s and into about 1994 born has basically no stars (except goalies)

Players born 1994-1999 show great promise. 2016 is not a good year for Finland to play best on best, especially when coaches rank Korpikoski etc ahead of of Pulju, Rantanen etc, there are even way better grinders like Salomäki availabe.

2018 is still early, best players are around 20 years. 2020 and onwards Finland will be very competative vs the best in the world. Only concern is actually ironically goalies

I think 2018 will be much better. Bigger ice, D is more experienced and we will have Puljujärvi and Rantanen most likely and maybe Salomäki.

 

[kelsier]

Finland is past the abysmal decade of poor player development thanks to the old "program" called "Meidän peli". They really have changed things in that regard since we finally are producing top end talents. This year there were 4 players drafted in the first round (3 players in top 5). Next year I have seen scouting lists that predict even more first rounders. Times are definitely changing and it seems that the country is about to enter a golden age in hockey. We should be able to see the results of maybe 4 or 5 years from today, or atleast I'd like to hope so. That hopefully means no more beating by the NA'n kids! Also while I think Sweden will own up in numbers no matter what as they are the more populated nation, it still seems Finland has better top end quality at least if you look at the forwards. I don't see us catching Sweden in the blue line anytime in the near future.

 

[Snowsii]

Oh please the answer is so obvious. Sweden has had the better talent always and still has. Not going to list present and past names but there is no argument to be made that Finland is better at the senior level. The list of all time Finnish greats have only a few truly great players and the rest are just good, whereas Sweden has had many all time greats and current and future Hall of Famers. Most often for Finland to medal they have to overachieve, the Swedes don't. Sure Finland has what 4 junior golds but Sweden has 10 silvers along with a few golds, so lets not pretend Finland is better at that level either. The past few years have been great but you have to look at the big picture. If Finland would be so great then why is it that the Swedes absolute annihilate the Finns with their group of current generation players? Look at the massive difference of the rosters of these two teams at the World Cup, it is huge. Finland will not be able to assemble a D core that is even remotely close to Sweden at least for a decade.

Did you even read the OP?
He said that Sweden is better @ senior level competition..

About WJC; Wrong.. Finland got alot better offense (U-21)

- Puljujärvi
- Aho
- Laine
- Teräväinen
- Rantanen
- Vesalainen
- Toivanen
- Borgström
- Saarela
- Nättinen
- Barkov (okey, he's not U-21 anymore)

About defense, you're right.. Around 2024 Olympics, Finland got good defense (If they develope as thought)

- Niemeläinen
- Juolevi
- Vaakanainen
- Määttä
- Ristolainen
- Honka
- Pokka
- Lindell
- Lindbohm
- Vatanen

 

[PTmbp13]

Since Swedens hockeyprogram and trainers has been over at finland the last 20 years i d say Sweden are alot better as a hockey nation. Finland was not a top hockey nation before that. Like Swedens program now are at it in rest of hockey Europe. Goalie trainers from Sweden is over in NHL to teach their program as well so... And Swedes have alot more medals in gold and 2 olympics. One with all the best in it. 2006. Against Finland.

 

[kelsier]

About WJC; Wrong.. Finland got alot better offense (U-21)

- Puljujärvi
- Aho
- Laine
- Teräväinen
- Rantanen
- Vesalainen
- Toivanen
- Borgström
- Saarela
- Nättinen
- Barkov (okey, he's not U-21 anymore)

If we are talking about U21 Finnish forwards that are the future of our hockey then Leevi Aaltonen definitely should be on that list. Maybe some others too, but damn I love how it looks right now even if we ignored some of the ones who are born later than lets just say -99, because they have more of the "unknown" factor.

 

[Snowsii]

If we are talking about U21 Finnish forwards that are the future of our hockey then Leevi Aaltonen definitely should be on that list. Maybe some others too, but damn I love how it looks right now even if we ignored some of the ones who are born later than lets just say -99, because they have more of the "unknown" factor.

Yeah, Aaltonen belongs to that group also. I just wrote that list, from prospects that came instantly in my mind. -99 born would be last age group worth mention right now, as you said; later ones still got too much "if" in their game. Not saying there cant be any "Benn's" for sweden's hockey, but Finland sure seem to be ontop when looking high end offense prospects. Sure Sweden still most likely get more draftees than us. Thank god, there's only 20 players on a team Goaltending is the next big question mark for Finland.

- Husso
- Saros
- Korpisalo
- Luukkonen

No clear star player there, though goaltenders are lottery..(I mean Rask, Rinne type goalie)

 

[fredligh]

1 year later?
Too early to make any judgements.

One WJC doesnt make or break anyone, several in a row do. When you have a good 5 year stretch.

The players in that group were 21-23 YO comparing WJC 18-19 YO, the point is, winning junior gold doesn't necessarily means you will have success at senior level. But year in year out producing top end talent does make your odds better.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Could say the same about the USA over Canada.

 

[Snowsii]

The players in that group were 21-23 YO comparing WJC 18-19 YO, the point is, winning junior gold doesn't necessarily means you will have success at senior level. But year in year out producing top end talent does make your odds better.

Then why was it called U-21, if the players are 21-23 ? I dont get it..

 

[sr edler]

What does meidän peli mean?

I'm not Finnish speaking.

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

What does meidän peli mean?

I'm not Finnish speaking.

Meidän peli is our game, our tactics on the ice. Kelsier above mentioned it when he meant Kaikki Pelaa which was a philosophy of give everyone ice time, no matter good or bad. That caused the lost generation

Meidän peli on the other hand is still the main tactics on the ice for Finland, NA game wasn't meidän peli, Sweden and Russia games were.

 

[oobga]

Might be the balance of forward and D changes as the players get more mature. Fins have a reputation of having forwards that, even at a young age, can play a more mature game, they are able to perform better against all the young D that haven't matured their games yet and are prone to lots of mistakes. As the players get older, the Swede's reputation of having good 2-way D shows up as their D mature and they can start to dominate.