Why Fire Your Coach? Because New Coaches Win the Most

Goose

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Apr 18, 2006
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Thinking about the high turnover in NHL head coaches (leading all professional sports leagues), I did a bit of a back-of-the-napkin math on NHL head coaches and their tenure with a given team who made the Stanley cup Finals over the past 30 years, and here's the breakdown:

Note that this represents how many years the coach has been with that specific team, not overall experience. So Pat Burns, for example, made the SCF in his 1st year coaching the Canadiens (lost) and won the SCF his 1st year with the Devils.

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Capture-Coach.jpg

I don't have easy raw data on average NHL tenure per calendar year to compare against the mean, but it's pretty amazing how many first year coaches with a team have made the SCF and how few long tenured coaches have won. The breakdown for winning and making the SCF as a first year coach are the same, by the way, (12/12).

I'm a believer in the whole "shaking up the culture" argument, especially looking at STL last year, and the data seems to back it up. The only problem is, I don't have raw data on average coaching tenure to compare deviation, and that's too much work, but I thought I'd see what people think. Do the numbers look like this simply because there is a lot of turnover in the NHL, or is there a lot of turnover because it works?

For comparison, only 3 NFL head coaches have won a Super Bowl in their first year of coaching a team over the past 30 years, compared with the NHL's 12. I think it's 7 for MLB, then 4 for the NBA.
 

MikeK

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Nov 10, 2008
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Because the coach is the only option for most teams nowadays. It's hard making player changes when most impactful players make so much money today and when you throw in a cap it's almost impossible to make any sort of meaningful trades mid-season. The coach will always be the first to go because he's the cheapest and quickest fix.
 

Doctor No

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Oct 26, 2005
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It would be useful to see what proportion of coaches overall are in their first year with a team, second year with a team, et cetera...

For instance, it's interesting that 24/60 of SC Finalists are first-year coached, but would be less interesting if (hypothetically) 90% of teams have a first-year coach (exaggerating for effect).
 

Goose

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Apr 18, 2006
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It would be useful to see what proportion of coaches overall are in their first year with a team, second year with a team, et cetera...

For instance, it's interesting that 24/60 of SC Finalists are first-year coached, but would be less interesting if (hypothetically) 90% of teams have a first-year coach (exaggerating for effect).

Yeah for sure, that’s what I was referring to not having the mean data. Would take way too long to do that by hand and I don’t have a quick way to aggregate.

Still pretty amazing the difference between NHL/NFL.
 

JianYang

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Sep 29, 2017
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It's the life of an nhl coach. It doesn't take long for things to get bad, and it happens to virtually every coach.

It's not uncommon to see an immediate improvement after a change, but all that does is perpetuate the cycle, because the new guy's time will turn sour soon enough.
 
Jan 3, 2012
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Coaches that can't adapt to maximize the talents of their players and deploy them correctly should go.

Different sport, but look at how John Harbaugh has rebuilt the Ravens entire offense around Lamar Jackson, a QB who many teams thought couldn't cut it in the position, and it is paying dividends. So many lesser coaches would be using him poorly. Same applies in the NHL, and moreso european soccer.
 

Luigi Lemieux

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Sep 26, 2003
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In recent memory a team that fired its coach mid-season won the cup 4 times in the past 10 years.

2009 - Pittsburgh - Therrien to Bylsma
2012 - LA - Stevens to Sutter
2016 - Pittsburgh - Johnston to Sullivan
2019 - St Louis - Yeo to Berube

A good team that's not living up to expectations can definitely get a huge boost from firing the coach.
 
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adsfan

#164303
May 31, 2008
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Babcock is an egomaniac.

Lavy seems to be wearing out his welcome in Nashville. Losing 8 of the last 9 games is shocking with the talent the Preds have.

If you fire a coach, you need to find somebody better, or maybe somebody as good but different in methods.
 

abo9

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Jun 25, 2017
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Are you suggesting the Maple Leafs will win the Cup? :sarcasm: My bold prediction is that Keefe will be seen as a great coach by the end of the year, and win the Jack Adams trophy

I'm surprised because I would have thought that 2nd year coaches had more success!
 
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Cleetus

"snot"
Jan 2, 2012
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Are you suggesting the Maple Leafs will win the Cup? :sarcasm: My bold prediction is that O'Keefe will be seen as a great coach by the end of the year, and win the Jack Adams trophy

I'm surprised because I would have thought that 2nd year coaches had more success!

who is this?
 
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SillyRabbit

Trix Are For Kids
Jan 3, 2006
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I remember reading a statistic a couple years ago that no coach has ever won a Cup for a team he’s coaching if he didn’t already win one in his first four seasons.

So basically you either have early success or you never will.

So if that’s true, the coaches who won Cups 5+ years after coaching the same team had already won one with that same team in the first four years.
 

LT

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Jul 23, 2010
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I remember reading a statistic a couple years ago that no coach has ever won a Cup for a team he’s coaching if he didn’t already win one in his first four seasons.

Glen Sather invalidates this. Took him 8 years to win a Cup with Edmonton. Al Arbour too, took him 7 years.

Probably more historically, but I'm too lazy to keep looking.

Recently, it does hold though.
 

SillyRabbit

Trix Are For Kids
Jan 3, 2006
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Glen Sather invalidates this. Took him 8 years to win a Cup with Edmonton. Al Arbour too, took him 7 years.

Probably more historically, but I'm too lazy to keep looking.

Recently, it does hold though.

Yeah there might've been a qualifier such as "in the past 30 years" or something like that.
 

Machinehead

HFNYR MVP
Jan 21, 2011
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By the same logic you should trade any player who turns 22 because young players score more.

At some point, there's value in stability also.
 

tucson83

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Sep 30, 2017
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i think it's combination of alot of things, results, figuring out your scheme, etc, new coaches that come in have new ideas and the rest of the coaches cant figure it out and they win that way. in my opinion, i think coaches are kept too long get figured out and lose more games, that's why new coaches should get smaller windows because they eventually get figured out and lose more games.
 

end

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Mar 18, 2007
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I think a big thing is how players respond. I think it's a lot like relationships, you work a little harder when you know you're starting at 0 with a new person. I bet players are putting more effort into the small things they know are right rather than trying to follow someone's plan and fearing reprisal.

Glen Sather invalidates this. Took him 8 years to win a Cup with Edmonton.
Edmonton won in their 5th year in the league..?
 

Tom Polakis

Next expansion
Nov 24, 2008
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It would be useful to see what proportion of coaches overall are in their first year with a team, second year with a team, et cetera...

For instance, it's interesting that 24/60 of SC Finalists are first-year coached, but would be less interesting if (hypothetically) 90% of teams have a first-year coach (exaggerating for effect).


It was easy to do this for the current point in time using the Wikipedia list of coaches and some spreadsheet work. I don't know how you'd go about doing this for other seasons. You'd want a snapshot of coaches and their tenure in April of each year. Anyway, here's the current breakdown.

1st season: 8 coaches (26 percent)
2nd: 8 coaches (26 percent)
3rd/4th: 8 coaches (26 percent)
5th+: 7 coaches (22 percent)

So if the numbers for this season is typical, the coaches with shorter tenure who appeared in Cup finals is high, but not exceedingly so.

Nice work by the OP!

kJLWcMS.jpg
 
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