Why did the Whalers leave Hartford?

[habsfan87]

Why did the Whalers leave Hartford? From reading Bill Simmons' mailbag on ESPN.com, it seems the owner wanted a new arena and, when tax payers wouldn't pay for it, Karmanos moved them to Carolina. Is that so? Did Hartford have enough fan support to justify an NHL franchise?

 

[Icer]

The main reasons were market size and lack of facilities. The Hartford Civic Center only held about 15K and they were always at the bottom of the league in attendance. They had plans to build a new arena but Karmanos wanted the state to reimburse him for any losses (possibly as much as $45 million) while the new arena was being built. Governor Rowland said no and Karmanos said so long.

Fan support was always an issue. Hartford isn't exactly New York City. But they did have around 11,000 season ticket holders. Those numbers probably go up if a new stadium was built.

Also remember that Hartford was the league doormat. They usually missed the playoffs or flamed out in the first round. I think attendance would've been better if they had won a playoff series once in a while.

 

[Big Phil]

When you think of a cursed team you think of the Boston Red Sox, or even the Chicago Blackhawks in the NHL. But with Hartford they were just flat out bad. Well, I shouldnt say that, but in all honesty they were never good. Nobody ever feared the Hartford Whalers, not once. And despite Carolina's Cup in 2006 I think that trend has continued. Carolina has hardly ever struck the fear of God into anyone.

 

[soundtigersfan]

Fan support certainly wasn't where it could have been, but it was the lack of commitment from the ownership that really killed the Whalers. The state offered a new arena deal at the last second, but it was turned down. The fact that Karmanos first tried to move them to Detroit and then an abandoned aircraft hanger in Columbus kind of showed that his mentality was "anything but Hartford" until he lucked out and landed in Raleigh. Paul Holmgren even acknowledged recently that Karmanos asked him what he thought of Las Vegas when he first purchased the team after he deemed the asking price for the expansion Lightning to be too high. Read the first two paragraphs of this article to prove it.

http://www.masslive.com/sypek/republican/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1197188439177920.xml&coll=1

It's true that we were always at the bottom of the league in terms of attendance. The fact that we were only above 0.500 three times in an 18-year NHL existence certainly didn't help. Our existence was so miserable that we threw a parade for the team when they swept the Nordiques, our only playoff series victory in the NHL. I have always believed that all we needed was a solid playoff run to really get the fanbase going. It never happened, and with the economics of major league sports today, I doubt we'll ever get another chance. If you go to any hockey games in Connecticut, though, whether it's the Sound Tigers or Wolf*Pack of the AHL or college teams like Yale and Quinnipiac, you're bound to see people still proudly sporting their Whalers gear. We may not have had massive fanbases like the Rangers, Habs, Leafs, or Flyers, but the fans we did have were extremely passionate and still proudly sport their Whalers gear to this day.

 

[steevy]

I miss Quebec,Hartford and Winnipeg.I also preferred the Minnesota Northstars.I can't get used to Phoenix,Carolina,Hartford and Anaheim not to mention the Florida teams.I was hoping the strike would cause several franchises to fold actually,a 26 team NHL would be better......

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

If my memory is correct didn't they also have trouble attracting FA and keeping players they drafted? Hartford and Winnipeg were usually the least desired places to go to.

Fan support has been better in Carolina then it was in last 10 years of Whalers time in Hartford. I love the idea of Bruins-Whalers, Habs-Whalers, etc but i enjoy Hurricanes and think that Carolina has been a success.

 

[True Player For Life]

Bump. Bring back the Whalers.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Bump. Bring back the Whalers.

Nothing has changed in the 6 years since this topic was last responded to. The team still had awful attendance and minimal support, and despite the under-25 crowd wearing Whalers gear because nostalgia is cool even if you weren't alive for it, the NHL back in Hartford would still be a significant uphill battle.

 

[Big Phil]

I have to laugh at my 6 year old post that said the Blackhawks were a cursed franchise. Well they were...............then.

But in all seriousness, Hartford isn't even a city that gets brought up for a franchise re-location or expansion. The cities I hear far more often are Kansas City, Seattle, Toronto (2nd team), Hamilton, Las Vegas. No one even thinks about Hartford. In all honesty I can't even remember why the team got into the NHL in 1979. I guess the influence of Gordie Howe in the WHA. But still.............

 

[Jumptheshark]

Why did the Whalers leave Hartford? From reading Bill Simmons' mailbag on ESPN.com, it seems the owner wanted a new arena and, when tax payers wouldn't pay for it, Karmanos moved them to Carolina. Is that so? Did Hartford have enough fan support to justify an NHL franchise?

Ownership problems, Arena problems, they were not a good team, Market was a problem--lots of MAll jokes as I reacall, and the team sucked for the last 5 years

IF the team had made the playoffs more-- I think they would have stayed

But the Management killed the team also--had no real drafing plan

The Ron Francis deal should be top ten worst deals of all time IMO

 

[Terry Yake]

Fan support was never quite high, front office always seemed to be a mess, outdated arena, and just not a place that could attract players

But there were more underlying issues beyond that. the Francis trade in my opinion was the beginning of the end for that team. Burke came in and made a few good moves like acquring Sean Burke and drafting Pronger but once Burke left the team turned into a clown car for the most part (Holmgren in and out of the HC job, McGuire comes in for a period and gets fired, Holmgren returns with Rutherford as GM) Then the Pronger trade which brought Shanahan over made matters even worse since he had no desire to play for the team

It was pretty clear Karmanos had no desire to keep the team in Hartford. And Governor Rowland was at fault too, denying the Whalers use of tax money to fund a new arena while he was actually trying to lure the Patriots to Hartford the whole time. It's pretty safe to say that the NHL won't ever return to Hartford

 

[iamthewalrus]

Small state literally halfway between New York City and Boston. Everywhere Massachusetts and North supported the Bruins, everyone in western CT and through New York supported the Rangers.

Gotta realize that both these teams have been around since 1942. Everyone already had "their" team. Suddenly an NHL team comes around in 1979 and plops in the dead center of two of the most historic and fan-followed hockey teams in existence, in hopes that people in Connecticut will leave the team that they have been following for forty years.

90% of the people you'll see wearing Whalers apparel here are kids wearing whalers fitted's who probably don't even know that it's a hockey team, or do it because they tell you they're Whalers fans, most born after the Whalers had already tanked .

I think I made it to maybe two Whalers games before they moved ( I'm 22, don't remember, not gonna claim that I was ever a Whalers fan. Plus I was always more associated with the Rangers, living closer to NYC than I do to Hartford). Sure, if I was older back then I'd go to a bunch of games and support them whole heartedly, but unless I was relatively new to hockey, I don't think I would be able to leave my team just because another one showed up in my home state.

Edit: Didn't even realize this thread was from 2008. oops

 

[Tackla]

Everyone has an answer, few have the correct one. It was a business decision that turned out to be the wrong decision.

 

[tony d]

Business which is unfortunate. Hartford was a good hockey market.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Rowland and Karmanos both reaching for golden rings.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Everyone has an answer, few have the correct one. It was a business decision that turned out to be the wrong decision.

Business which is unfortunate. Hartford was a good hockey market.

The following NHL locations have never averaged below 80% attendance for six consecutive years:
Anaheim
Atlanta
Carolina
Columbus
Dallas
Florida
Nashville
Phoenix
Tampa Bay

The following cities have:
Hartford

If Hartford was a great hockey market, they sure had a funny way of showing it.

 

[Terry Yake]

Business which is unfortunate. Hartford was a good hockey market.

at the time the team left to carolina, i really wondered why a team would leave hartford for a place like raleigh

but as the years have gone by, i realized that hartford was definitely nowhere near a good hockey market. sure we had a great group of diehard loyal fans but it was a pretty small group and the fact that the bruins and rangers, 2 O6 teams played less than 150 miles away certainly didn't help either in terms of growing the fanbase. neither did the dingy civic center. and most importantly, the team just wasn't good. in the decade leading up to the move all i remember are losing to boston and montreal year after year in the playoffs and then 5-6 years of missing the playoffs altogether.

karmanos and rowland both played huge roles in the team's move with their shady tactics and lies but the team just really had nothing going for it anyways

 

[Hasbro]

As far as I'm concerned it was nothing but bad faith by Karmanos.


What would be hilarious is the Red Wings hitting the market and seeing Karmanos' reaction.

 

[Tackla]

at the time the team left to carolina, i really wondered why a team would leave hartford for a place like raleigh

but as the years have gone by, i realized that hartford was definitely nowhere near a good hockey market. sure we had a great group of diehard loyal fans but it was a pretty small group and the fact that the bruins and rangers, 2 O6 teams played less than 150 miles away certainly didn't help either in terms of growing the fanbase. neither did the dingy civic center. and most importantly, the team just wasn't good. in the decade leading up to the move all i remember are losing to boston and montreal year after year in the playoffs and then 5-6 years of missing the playoffs altogether.

karmanos and rowland both played huge roles in the team's move with their shady tactics and lies but the team just really had nothing going for it anyways

How old were you when the Whalers left? I was there for the worst 3 seasons Hartford had and frankly there are many worse markets in the league right now who rarely pay full price for their tickets, have worse TV ratings, and often have much better teams..

 

[Mayor Bee]

How old were you when the Whalers left? I was there for the worst 3 seasons Hartford had and frankly there are many worse markets in the league right now who rarely pay full price for their tickets, have worse TV ratings, and often have much better teams..

You could be referring to one of two three-year stretches. I'm guessing it's 1991-92 (65 points), 1992-93 (58 points), and 1993-94 (63 points).

In those three years, Hartford had attendance of 10,832; 10,583; and 10,492. In the 15,635-seat Civic Center, that comes out to averages of 69.3%, 67.7%, and 67.1%.

The following teams have never been below 69.3% in any season of their existence, which Hartford did three times in three seasons:
Anaheim
Atlanta
Columbus
Dallas
Florida
Nashville
Phoenix

I tried searching for Whalers' TV ratings over time, but all I could find was that WHCT carried the team's games. So many people watched that the station went belly-up four years later, and this was when the team was actually doing something resembling contending (1985-89).

Hartford's ratings for the 2010 gold medal game were 17th in the United States, behind Columbus (8th), West Palm Beach (11th), Kansas City (12th), Seattle (14th), and Cincinnati (15th). Expanded 2014 metered rankings weren't released outside the top 10.

 

[Terry Yake]

How old were you when the Whalers left? I was there for the worst 3 seasons Hartford had and frankly there are many worse markets in the league right now who rarely pay full price for their tickets, have worse TV ratings, and often have much better teams..

17, why do you ask?

worse markets? i would say that every market in the NHL right now is better than hartford ever was. that city just wasn't fit to house a successful pro hockey team

 

[iamthewalrus]

17, why do you ask?

worse markets? i would say that every market in the NHL right now is better than hartford ever was. that city just wasn't fit to house a successful pro hockey team

The UConn basketball dominance over the last twenty years probably won't help either. That, or it would simply by attracting more people toward Hartford.

Although the hockey team is moving to hockey east and moving their games to the XL center. So you never know, I guess