Why are Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook not elite anymore?

[dkhockey]

they are not old, so why are they BOTH so awful now?

 

[Jauffre]

Keith's not exactly young - and nobody on the Hawks is playing well right now

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

They've inherited Toews's intangibles of suck???

 

[pheasant]

Duncan Keith hasn't been bad. He still plays over 24 minutes a game. That's in the top 20 in the league, in the range with Josi, OEL, and Subban. And his points/game this season of .44 isn't all that far off his career average of .55. He's still playing well, no matter what other people tell you. Not his usual Norris level, but still a #1D.

The drop off in performance for both guys is probably because they're being asked to do too much. They used to have guys like Brian Campbell and Hjalmarsson to do some heavy lifting. Plus there was some depth on the team like Oduya and Rozsival.

Seabrook's struggles are real. But this season the next best guy is Oesterle? Rutta? How much worse is a slump or an off year (or even a players regression) when there's no one to pick up the load?

 

[crazyhawk]

In the last 10 years these two have played a LOT of hockey when you factor in their minutes per game plus the playoffs. Duncs is 34, Seabs is 32 but plays much heavier and with a number of BIG hits received ( head ) I can see him more as having a 35 year old body. But when you factor in the games/minutes these two have played it's no wonder they are showing signs of decline.
But as already mentioned above Keith is still playing as a top 2 D ( just not his usual Norris level ) ... Seabs ... well he's more suited to a #5 role now but still effective in that.

 

[LeafGrief]

Because they are actually old? Keith is 34 and while he's not really elite any more, he's still a top pairing D. Seabrook has fallen farther but was never even close to Keith's level. 34 is very common for a defenseman to not be on the same level as his mid 20's. Not every player can be an ageless wonder, lots of elite HHOF calibre players retire in their 30's.

 

[AD1066]

Seabrook plays a heavy game and was never a fast guy to begin with. That contract was a mistake before the ink was dry.

Keith has quite literally played more hockey than any other player since he entered the league. 24,527 minutes TOI according to Hockey Reference. (Seabrook is actually 6th in that same time frame. Here's the query.)

 

[Brock Radunske]

Because they aren't Benjamin Button?

 

[sr edler]

Duncan Keith hasn't been bad.

He has 0 goals and the worst plus/minus ratio on the team. Yeah, I know, plus/minus is a team stat, but nonetheless. The much hated on Toews is actually a plus player at the moment. Even if Keith isn't bad per se, being mediocre isn't very helpful for a team full of holes.

 

[Holymakinaw]

It is a mystery, to be sure. But it's no coincidence that when Keith/Seabrook were playing great, the Blackhawks were winning. Now that one is kinda human, and the other is really sucking, the team is falling apart.

No explanation.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Seabrook was always defensively carried by Keith.
That pairing was always relatively shelted by (Campbell/)Hjalmarsson's pairing.
Seabrook's biggest strength was his booming point shot.
The Blackhawks always had stacked forward cores to dominate opponents.

So to recap:
Keith/Seabrook split up
Hjalmarsson gone
Teams block too many shots and make point shots ineffective
Hawks have bled forward talent like Hossa, Panarin, Teravainen, even Shaw

 

[philip]

Games faster, they too slow

 

[pheasant]

He has 0 goals and the worst plus/minus ratio on the team. Yeah, I know, plus/minus is a team stat, but nonetheless. The much hated on Toews is actually a plus player at the moment. Even if Keith isn't bad per se, being mediocre isn't very helpful for a team full of holes.

Ryan McDonagh only has 2 goals, and he scored them both in the same game. He's still a top pairing D.

I know it hasn't been great for Keith. But I didn't start a thread to convince anyone he's having a good season. I replied to a thread claiming he is awful. He just isn't. "Mediocre and not good helping on a team full of holes" I can accept. I don't completely agree. But it's fair. But "Awful" is just plain wrong for Duncan Keith this season.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Seriously, these guys have a ton of miles on them at this point.

 

[joe dirte]

they are not old, so why are they BOTH so awful now?

34 years old in NHL terms is pretty old.

 

[Brownies]

Compare their level of play this year to Chara-Bergeron-Marchand... As soon as these Bruins retire, teams should line up to get them in their coaching staff. They've got a great recipe in Boston.

 

[LeafFever]

Seabrook was never close to elite. On any other team he'd be considered a very good #2. But the 3 cups give him much more credit than he deserves in terms of being thought of as some top D.

 

[tony d]

They're both getting older so age is catching up with them. Keith still has a lot to offer though and is among the better defensemen in the game.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Seabrook was never really elite anyways. Was overrated for a while. And him and Keith are both aging, both well past their primes. 32 ad 34.

 

[MessierII]

Games faster, they too slow

Keith is one of the smoothest skaters I’ve ever seen.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

In the last 10 years these two have played a LOT of hockey when you factor in their minutes per game plus the playoffs. Duncs is 34, Seabs is 32 but plays much heavier and with a number of BIG hits received ( head ) I can see him more as having a 35 year old body. But when you factor in the games/minutes these two have played it's no wonder they are showing signs of decline.
But as already mentioned above Keith is still playing as a top 2 D ( just not his usual Norris level ) ... Seabs ... well he's more suited to a #5 role now but still effective in that.

Came to say this. They've played a shitload of playoff games in the past six years, and those games takes miles on the body on young guys, let alone guys in their mid thirties.

 

[Voight]

In the last 10 years these two have played a LOT of hockey when you factor in their minutes per game plus the playoffs. Duncs is 34, Seabs is 32 but plays much heavier and with a number of BIG hits received ( head ) I can see him more as having a 35 year old body. But when you factor in the games/minutes these two have played it's no wonder they are showing signs of decline.
But as already mentioned above Keith is still playing as a top 2 D ( just not his usual Norris level ) ... Seabs ... well he's more suited to a #5 role now but still effective in that.

Aside form 3 finals runs and another WCF run, Keith has played in 2 Olympics, Seabrook one. & a lot of people forget Keith still made the AST last season.

The 2015 run took a massive toll on Keiths body as well, dude was a freaking machine that year.

 

[sr edler]

Seabrook was never close to elite.

He made the 2010 Olympic team. Doesn't necessarily mean he's elite, but he certainly was above average.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

A whole lot of mileage.

And Keith hasn't been awful, he's just not been great defensively. Offensively, sure, he's been awful, though.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Seabrook plays a heavy game and was never a fast guy to begin with. That contract was a mistake before the ink was dry.

Keith has quite literally played more hockey than any other player since he entered the league. 24,527 minutes TOI according to Hockey Reference. (Seabrook is actually 6th in that same time frame. Here's the query.)

That’s a great query. Thanks for sharing. Sorting by Pts, goal, assist, shots, etc....very revealing.