Who won the Toronto-Pittsburgh trade

[Pyrophorus]

He might work with Sid. Then again, traffic cone would work with Sidney Crosby

He played with two high end centers, and didn't do well.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Toronto won on value for now, how they use the 1st + Hallander + cap will determine if the really won the trade long term

I think they should walk away from Rodrigues myself.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I voted win win for now. We will only know the result after seeing how Kapanen plays this season.

As for the compensation it was fair. If Kapanen was a RFA, and this was discussed when he was, he would most likely fall into the 1st and 3rd rd picks tier of compensation. So from that perspective it was a fair price. This is basically what the Leafs got, and Rutherford paid for a 24 year old RFA.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

This and the Muzzin trade are Dubas’ best moves to date.
But he will be judged on whether or not he can significantly strengthen the back end this off season. Missing the playoffs this year after three first round exits showed that the defense needs a lot of work. A few years ago this team was projected to be a top contender but at best they’ve spun their wheels the last three years.

 

[ScaredStreit]

2nd line winger for a mid 1st round pick? Honestly 1st rounders (outside of the first 4-5 picks) are vastly overrated. I don't understand why they took back Rodrigues, take him out of the trade and I get it from Toronto's POV. Ultimately I think at the moment Toronto won...but they could easily end up losing the trade.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Vancouver got JT Miller for what turned out to be a first round pick in the 20’s. Now obviously there was a risk that it could be a higher pick but it was lottery protected for the first year.
Based on that as a baseline I think Toronto did very well as I don’t see Kapanen as being anywhere close to JT Miller.

 

[lottster14]

Toronto for now. The pens must have a massive soft spot for Kap, they probably feel they can develop him successfully. He sure is capable of being quite good

 

[HarryLime]

This and the Muzzin trade are Dubas’ best moves to date.
But he will be judged on whether or not he can significantly strengthen the back end this off season. Missing the playoffs this year after three first round exits showed that the defense needs a lot of work. A few years ago this team was projected to be a top contender but at best they’ve spun their wheels the last three years.

It's a fair point but going against a team like Boston in 2018 and 2019 in the first round and taking them to 7 games isn't anything to be ashamed of. Toronto had a top 5 season and have to face the 2nd best team in the league in R1 because of the other best team also being in their division. But yeah, it's definitely been a struggle.

 

[Evergreen]

I think Toronto won because they were able to get a 1st rounder and unload some salary, plus I just don't think Kapanen is that good. He's never been someone I was worried about when my team was playing against the Leafs. Fast and can shoot, but just has no hockey sense.

 

[Fatass]

Toronto, if Dubas uses the first to upgrade his D, and the Leafs win a round in the next playoffs.
Pittsburgh if Kap puts up a 60 point season, and he helps the Pens win a round in the next playoffs.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

This is going to sound harsh, but the Leafs haven’t even gotten out of the first round since I started dating my wife 15 years ago.

She’s a big Leafs fan so she constantly reminds me of this fact.

I’d wait to call any trade the Leafs have done a win... or a fleecing... because none of their moves in quite some time have lead to anything substantial.

On the Pens side, they have now invested heavily in their winger position the last 15 mo...

3 1sts and 2 2nds for Poulin, Zucker and KK.

How it works out, who knows, but there was a time Pens fans bitched and moaned Shero didn’t give Crosby and Malkin any help.

So at least JR is doing that and no one can argue JR hasn’t invested quite heavily in helping those two.

 

[Beauner]

There is literally no way to determine this yet

 

[domaug]

after calming down from the shit show yesterday i still voted Toronto, but it's only at the current moment.

did Toronto get the better value in the deal? overall, yes. 15th overall pick in a decent draft and a pretty good prospect in Filip Hallander, in my opinion, have more value *right now* than Kasperi Kapanen and Jesse Lindgren. i'm not considering the values of Aberg, Rodrigues, and Warsofsky since they're comparably lower than the main pieces, but i think Rodrigues has the highest value of those three, granted it's not much higher. he's an average bottom-6 forward. he's not going to stand out for any positive or negative reasons.

judging this from a team perspective, the Penguins certainly got better on paper. Kapanen is more productive than Rodrigues and the Penguins are going to make more moves, so it's hard to say this is entirely bad without knowing the rest of the moves they decide to make. the move for Toronto seems to be all about clearing cap space and getting some draft stock for a player they wanted to move anyway.

TL;DR: Toronto wins from a value standpoint, Pittsburgh gets better right now

 

[Lebowski]

I get that young players and picks have low relative value to Pittsburgh, but I think they could have had a better player than Kapanen for that package. I'm also not a fan of moving picks way ahead of the draft as they have no idea of what kind of player they're leaving on the table. So I'm not a fan of the value nor the timing of this trade for Pittsburgh. Seems rushed.

I guess it depends on how you view Kapanen, though. If he's a top 6/60 points winger in your mind, then this is a decent move. Personally, I view him more like depth/middle six, and I think they could have had players with a similar impact for much less assets. I also don't know how much assets it leaves them to go after their #1 issue, which to me is on defense. An offensive core of Crosby/Malkin/Guentzel/Zucker is good enough in my book, all it needs is some quality role players to have a well rounded overall group of forwards. But that defense is piss poor beyond Letang and Dumoulin, in my opinion.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I voted win win for now. We will only know the result after seeing how Kapanen plays this season.

As for the compensation it was fair. If Kapanen was a RFA, and this was discussed when he was, he would most likely fall into the 1st and 3rd rd picks tier of compensation. So from that perspective it was a fair price. This is basically what the Leafs got, and Rutherford paid for a 24 year old RFA.

Except before Kapanen re-signed in June 2019 with Toronto, the talk was of other teams giving him an offer sheet that wasn't worth a 1st round pick. So if anything Rutherford overpaid for Kapanen with the 15th overall pick.

 

[LeafsNation75]

True. Now let's compare with the leafs achievements over the same period.

The Penguins were also swept in the 1st round of the 2009 playoffs and their last official playoff win was Game 4 against Washington in the 2nd round of the 2018 playoffs.

 

[Morgs]

Value-wise, Toronto easy. I would've done it for 15th OA with no money coming back alone, and still think it was a big win. Hallander makes it feel like an absolute throttling. I also have been interested in Rodrigues for a couple years now, and an early chance to sign (not qualify) him is just another nice little bit to add on top.

The bright side for Pittsburgh is they got better today, and really only have a couple years of contention left. Toronto got worse as I think Kapanen was the best of the Mikheyev/Johnsson/Kerfoot/Engvall level guys, but man was he expendable for the right trade- and this was it. I really think Pittsburgh should've been able to do better with that package.

 

[wintersej]

Dubas best move to date. Short list I know but none the less...this is unexpectedly good.

Muzzin was better.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Win-win contingent on who's available at 15. This draft is strong and I predict a good prospect will slide to 15.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Sounds like there was quite a market for Kappy which brought his value up. Pitt clearly trying to do whatever they can to improve that top 6 and go for one last hooray before Geno/Sid are done. You could see why it could be looked at as a win-win, especially considering what sort of players were fetching 1sts at the deadline.

However, given how borderline desperate Toronto was to make this sort of move (get a quality prospect who will be cost controlled while dumping cap) you gotta think Toronto is the clear winner here.

 

[wintersej]

after calming down from the shit show yesterday i still voted Toronto, but it's only at the current moment.

did Toronto get the better value in the deal? overall, yes. 15th overall pick in a decent draft and a pretty good prospect in Filip Hallander, in my opinion, have more value *right now* than Kasperi Kapanen and Jesse Lindgren. i'm not considering the values of Aberg, Rodrigues, and Warsofsky since they're comparably lower than the main pieces, but i think Rodrigues has the highest value of those three, granted it's not much higher. he's an average bottom-6 forward. he's not going to stand out for any positive or negative reasons.

judging this from a team perspective, the Penguins certainly got better on paper. Kapanen is more productive than Rodrigues and the Penguins are going to make more moves, so it's hard to say this is entirely bad without knowing the rest of the moves they decide to make. the move for Toronto seems to be all about clearing cap space and getting some draft stock for a player they wanted to move anyway.

TL;DR: Toronto wins from a value standpoint, Pittsburgh gets better right now

So if its a good deal in the end depends on what Dubas does next, really. The Leafs got worse after being an 8 seed that didn't make it past the round robin. Tavares is turning 30 in a month, Andersen is a UFA next season and Rielly the year after. Are they going for things under this window or not?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Sounds like there was quite a market for Kappy which brought his value up. Pitt clearly trying to do whatever they can to improve that top 6 and go for one last hooray before Geno/Sid are done. You could see why it could be looked at as a win-win, especially considering what sort of players were fetching 1sts at the deadline.

However, given how borderline desperate Toronto was to make this sort of move (get a quality prospect who will be cost controlled while dumping cap) you gotta think Toronto is the clear winner here.

Problem is, if there really was as much interest as the reports suggest, then Toronto was the one in the driving seat. It's not like the Pens were the only bidder and knew Toronto needed cap space, yet still gave them the world. The options the Pens had were either outbid the other suitors or lose Kapanen.

 

[joe dirte]

So if its a good deal in the end depends on what Dubas does next, really. The Leafs got worse after being an 8 seed that didn't make it past the round robin. Tavares is turning 30 in a month, Andersen is a UFA next season and Rielly the year after. Are they going for things under this window or not?

Its funny, ive made comments about the bruins having issues with age, as marchand is 30, and more importantly, bergeron, who basically holds that first line and entire offense together, being 35, and gotten arguments from bruins fans that hes only improving..... so seeing you pointing out tavares turning 30 makes me laugh.

 

[Sam of Montreal]

The Penguins were also swept in the 1st round of the 2009 playoffs and their last official playoff win was Game 4 against Washington in the 2nd round of the 2018 playoffs.

I was gonna give you the courtesy of not going further than the last two years, but really? You really want to compare Pittsburgh and Toronto since 2009?

 

[LeafsNation75]

I was gonna give you the courtesy of not going further than the last two years, but really? You really want to compare Pittsburgh and Toronto since 2009?

I'm just stating what has happened to the Penguins since their Cup win in 2017.