Who/what do you blame the most for Canada's 1996 World Cup loss?

[Big Phil]

What were the factors that you point towards? Granted, the U.S. had a younger and faster team who had never beaten Canada at this level before (and other than a round robin game in the 2010 Olympics haven't since) so there was a ton of motivation to beat their so-called "big brother". But still, what do you point to as being the reason Canada lost? Other than the insane play of Mike Richter, I was going to keep this to the Canadian side about where they fell short.

Mario turning the invitation down?

Bourque turning the invitation down?

Injuries to Kariya, MacInnis, Francis?

Player selection? Patrick Roy wasn't even picked suspiciously. Chris Pronger was not picked on defense while Sylvain Cote and Lyle Odelein were.

Coaching choice? Scotty Bowman eventually backed out, and Glen Sather came in as the coach. Was that a good choice? No one knew the old Oilers on that team quite like Sather, but he had barely coached at all in the 1990s. Or do you blame Bowman for backing out?

Goalie selection? Joseph over Brodeur. Belfour was never selected for the team either.

Line combinations? There was this bizarre Damphousse-Gretzky-Linden line that didn't make a lot of sense, I never thought. Just some line combos where it seemed could have been utilized better.

Joseph collapsing in the last 3-4 minutes of the tournament allowing those late goals?

Mark Messier missing Game 2 of the final with the flu?


Discuss that anyway you'd wish. Lots of options there. As for individual plays, I can think of some in Game 3 that were costly. I don't think you could ask Canada to play better in the first two periods, but in the 3rd period I can remember Claude Lemieux with Canada up 2-1 and 4 minutes left going in on a two-on-one with Adam Graves - and only Brian Leetch back - and being in a perfect position to shoot on Richter and fanning on the shot. It just looked awful. 30 seconds later the Americans tied it and it was Claude who had time but shot the puck around the boards in his own end right to Brian Leetch who shot and had it tipped in by Brett Hull. Claude should have been right there where Leetch was since he was a right winger. Canada had iced the puck multiple times before this and was just playing in a defensive shell at this point, hanging on.

Then with the score tied 2-2 the Americans get a scoring chance, Joseph stops it and Trevor Linden scoops it up and is in a perfect chance to get it out of the zone. Within a second the much smaller Bryan Smolinski checks him off balance and strips him of the puck and makes a pass to Tony Amonte for a scoring chance. The puck never got out of the zone. Gretzky had a good chance to get it out again as well. Then Amonte scored.

Lastly, the golden opportunity to tie it by Gretzky with under a minute left. No, not his fault, he played well in the tournament overall. It is just one of those things that could have tied it up.

 

[Big Phil]

Lastly, I have to ask this. I guess you can sort of blame Vincent Damphousse on this play, but how on earth did no one pick up Derian Hatcher on the Amonte goal, I never understand that. On that shift he had two lovely scoring chances with the second one being assisting on the goal. I am not sure how he never got picked up, he was not an offensive defenseman at any time in his career.

 

[MadLuke]

I would blame the most in that order American Defense,Richter, Hull, center line and Mario Lemieux not being there.

 

[tornadowarning33]

"I've always thought the Yankees had something to do with it."

 

[Professor What]

"I've always thought the Yankees had something to do with it."

That exact quote popped into my head when I saw the thread title. Absolutely hilarious to come in and see someone actually said it.

 

[The Panther]

Well, I think the main problem (of several small problems) was Glen Sather. As Big Phil said, he hadn't coached in ages and it showed. He was outcoached in the final series.

(I'm tempted to 'blame' Mario Lemieux in the sense that I think if he had played, Canada would have won because the US would have had to have their checkers out a lot more often. But I guess if Lemieux was intent on coming to the 1996-97 season in good health for the first time in ages -- and probably considering it his final season -- you can't really blame him for skipping out. Or can you...?)

 

[jcs0218]

Richter stole that series for the USA. Especially game 3.

One of the best goaltending performances I have ever seen.

That game 3 should have been in the bag for Canada after 2 periods, if not for Richter.

 

[Moridin]

Considering Canada was an OT crossbar away from not even reaching the finals, its hard to point to a single reason.

 

[bobholly39]

I dont know if "blame" is the right word - but you have to think that if theres one thing to change to have the most impact its Lemieux.

Theres never any guarantees - but odds are with #66 Canada wins. Moreso than any other change.

Bourque would also have been a great presence, Roy as well.

 

[Reindl87]

Mario Lemieux. Besides that, no one. You can always Lose against a Team that is not too far away in talent in Hockey. That is just the was Hockey is. Luck is still a huge Factor in a best of the three series.

 

[MXD]

Sometimes, a team just wins and another just loses. No need to attributing blame for everything. They haven't lost to the Moose Jaw Warriors.

 

[Bryce Newman]

Richter and Leetch (the greatest American player ever) were to blame by carrying Team USA. Bourque could have played but he wimped out.

 

[Big Phil]

I would blame the most in that order American Defense,Richter, Hull, center line and Mario Lemieux not being there.

Center line?

Well, I think the main problem (of several small problems) was Glen Sather. As Big Phil said, he hadn't coached in ages and it showed. He was outcoached in the final series.

(I'm tempted to 'blame' Mario Lemieux in the sense that I think if he had played, Canada would have won because the US would have had to have their checkers out a lot more often. But I guess if Lemieux was intent on coming to the 1996-97 season in good health for the first time in ages -- and probably considering it his final season -- you can't really blame him for skipping out. Or can you...?)

I think with Mario you blame him less than Bourque. With Bourque he was completely healthy and had a great season in 1996. He alone could have been the difference as well as Canada had a tough time with the American forwards on defense and they lacked that puck moving defenseman outside of Coffey. Imagine a guy who easily logs 20-25 minutes of ice time, even on that team. Even Don Cherry blamed Bourque, which he never did against any Bruin. He didn't like what he did and pointed to Bobby Orr playing in 1976 without a contract and being hurt.

 

[MadLuke]

Center line?

Could be fuzzy young memory but I loved that Modano, LaFontaine, Weight, Otto center line and find they outplayed the Canadians one.

 

[JianYang]

I probably think of this game differently if I watched it now, but I'll let the kid version of me break down this final. Richter just entered into this insane realm. It's one if the best performances I've ever seen from a goalie... Maybe the best.

I was also not comfortable with cujo. I think he was great in underdog roles where he faced alot of rubber, but he didn't look comfortable to me with the shoe on the other foot.

 

[Speedtrials]

Richter was just incredible.

 

[Big Phil]

Could be fuzzy young memory but I loved that Modano, LaFontaine, Weight, Otto center line and find they outplayed the Canadians one.

And remember there was no Roenick either.

I liked their centers too, but I thought the ones we had ought to have beaten them, even if all of them weren't playing center in that tournament. Lindros, Sakic, Gretzky, Messier, Yzerman.....................man that's a good middle. They misused Gretzky and I thought Lindros and Sakic on the same line was out of place. Why not have that as your #1-2 combo? Anyways.

I probably think of this game differently if I watched it now, but I'll let the kid version of me break down this final. Richter just entered into this insane realm. It's one if the best performances I've ever seen from a goalie... Maybe the best.

I was also not comfortable with cujo. I think he was great in underdog roles where he faced alot of rubber, but he didn't look comfortable to me with the shoe on the other foot.

I felt that too. Joseph is one of those goalies who excels the more rubber he gets. Another goalie who seems to play better the more pucks he gets is Marc-Andre Fleury. Yet just like Joseph, they never seem to be in their own skin when they are on the side who gives up less scoring chances. It doesn't suit them.

 

[Thenameless]

No blame. USA was full value for the win. They were a little bit better than Canada that year.

 

[Staniowski]

First, I think the Americans were a better team. They had better cohesiveness as a team, more effective players overall. More players at their best. Young and fast. Better defensemen, better wingers by a mile. Richter played well.

Canada was a bit disjointed, and missing several of their most important players....Lemieux, Kariya, MacInnis, etc. These guys are irreplaceable. Gretzky no longer good enough to dominate. Lindros and Sakic, zero ES points in 4 games against U.S. Gretzky only 1.

Even the game that Canada won, it looks like Brind'Amour was way offside on Yzerman's goal.

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

I felt that too. Joseph is one of those goalies who excels the more rubber he gets. Another goalie who seems to play better the more pucks he gets is Marc-Andre Fleury. Yet just like Joseph, they never seem to be in their own skin when they are on the side who gives up less scoring chances. It doesn't suit them.

From a goalies perspective Id say thats a mild sign of a poorly rounded goalie. Virtually everyone looks a bit more on the ball when seeing a rain of rubber, there is real skill to being able to deliver a 20/20 instead of 18/20 in a game where the play is mostly down in the other end

 

[Big Phil]

Even the game that Canada won, it looks like Brind'Amour was way offside on Yzerman's goal.

He was. You can even hear the fan's reaction (the game was in Philly) when they see it. Then Yzerman scored probably the ugliest overtime goal in hockey history. I mean this one was bad on Richter. For a guy who played so well after this he let in a whopper of a goal. Even if it shouldn't have counted. We never remember this goal because the USA won the next two games.

 

[Big Phil]

Does anyone think maybe Grant Fuhr would have been a better choice than Joseph at this point? Let's say they still don't pick Roy (never understood that regardless) you had Fuhr with a heck of a comeback year in 1996. He did get hurt in the 1996 playoffs, but it didn't stop him to start the next season. The guy finished 6th in Hart voting in 1996 and they pass on him as well. I don't know what was going on with the selection process in Canada that year.

 

[MadLuke]

Joseph started for team Canada in 2002 has well, it was not a 1996 thing, there was an aura of St-Joseph during important moment, with is playoff heroic.

Maybe there was better logical choice than Joseph, but in hindsight of how well Joseph played (when he was hot he was pretty much has good as anyone back then) I would not change him for anyone, specially outside of Patrick Roy.

Could still be fuzzy memory, but Joseph was going to win the MVP if Canada won one more game I think.

During the 3 games there was a lot of EN and at least one irrelevant goals, once removed it was not Richter good, but it was not Canada lost because of subpar goaltending either.

 

[barbu]

Goaltending.

 

[Big Phil]

Joseph started for team Canada in 2002 has well, it was not a 1996 thing, there was an aura of St-Joseph during important moment, with is playoff heroic.

Maybe there was better logical choice than Joseph, but in hindsight of how well Joseph played (when he was hot he was pretty much has good as anyone back then) I would not change him for anyone, specially outside of Patrick Roy.

Could still be fuzzy memory, but Joseph was going to win the MVP if Canada won one more game I think.

During the 3 games there was a lot of EN and at least one irrelevant goals, once removed it was not Richter good, but it was not Canada lost because of subpar goaltending either.

That's a good question. Was Joseph going to be the MVP for Canada prior to Game 3 had they won? Gretzky led Canada in scoring with 7 points, Coffey had 7 also. Fleury was next with 6, but 4 goals. Shanahan and Lindros had 6 also but less goals. Yeah, there wasn't a standout Canadian and Gretzky wasn't his usual self in these tournaments by then. I guess it could have been Fleury if anything, he scored that overtime winner against Sweden and in all honesty Coffey played the last great hockey of his life in this tournament, but with a win I suspect it goes to Joseph by default as the goalie often gets it if no one else is there to claim it.