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Who sits when Muzzin returns

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zeke said:
That.

And also that's he's too slow to recover defensively when he puts himself out of position or gets beat.
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Well to be fair when a defenseman gets beat or is out of position, only the elite skaters have a chance to get back into position
 
Dreakmur said:
Our defensive metrics are inflated because we have the puck a lot. Don't be fooled by the bar graphs.
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Our offensive metrics are inflated because our D doesn't let the opposition get or keep the puck much.
 
zeke said:
That.

And also that's he's too slow to recover defensively when he puts himself out of position or gets beat.
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I was watching with my dad when he threw that big hit against Montreal and he goes "THATS EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED MORE OF" and I quickly go "a defenseman putting himself out of position?"

I know you think he's bad, but he's significantly better than any of the bruisers we've had besides Muzzin. He's got value with his in zone defense and how he attacks the blue line on the rush, but him playing with Rielly is not ideal as you'd like to see someone more competent with the puck/better on 1v2s. I'd bench him too, but we could honestly do worse. He's a top-6 defenseman on probably 90% of teams in this league. It's just funny because we probably have 6-7 top-4 guys and it makes playing Bush seem more egregious than it actually is.
 
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Dreakmur said:
If Muzzin is healthy and back to his peak form, we are probably in the top 1/3 of the league, but probably not the top 1/4.

That's a big "if". I don't think Muzzin will ever be the same, unfortunately.
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It's in the 10-15 range for sure, pretty well exactly in line with where they rank in GA/G over the last 2 years.
 
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The way Liljegren has played in his last 3, since Giordano got to town...I'd say it's gotta be Holl that sits if I were making that call today. I used to think you let Muzzin go third pairing when he comes back, and throw Giordano-Brodie back together ... but now I'm not so sure. Now I think you let Giordano and Liljegren continue to grow together, and give the kid a solid and reliable partner that can calm things down. Brodie makes everyone look better, and Muzzin could use it to get back on track with the year he's had to this point. D pairings for game 1:
Rielly-Lyubushkin
Muzzin-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren

Dont have to stress about which pairing gets caught out on the ice.
 
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Dreakmur said:
If Muzzin is healthy and back to his peak form, we are probably in the top 1/3 of the league, but probably not the top 1/4.

That's a big "if". I don't think Muzzin will ever be the same, unfortunately.
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I've heard some suggestion that the reason they went after Giordano is because they believe the same thing - that Muzzin won't ever be back to his best.

Surely if that was the case they would have Kucherov'd him. The fact that they didn't, suggests to me that they expect him to make a full recovery and get back upto speed.
 
I assume we go with the all-star pairing gio-Brodie then I’d prob have holl because of his size.
 
WayneTrain said:
The way Liljegren has played in his last 3, since Giordano got to town...I'd say it's gotta be Holl that sits if I were making that call today. I used to think you let Muzzin go third pairing when he comes back, and throw Giordano-Brodie back together ... but now I'm not so sure. Now I think you let Giordano and Liljegren continue to grow together, and give the kid a solid and reliable partner that can calm things down. Brodie makes everyone look better, and Muzzin could use it to get back on track with the year he's had to this point. D pairings for game 1:
Rielly-Lyubushkin
Muzzin-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren

Dont have to stress about which pairing gets caught out on the ice.
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That's exactly my lineup... and for the exact same reasons!
 
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Tak7 said:
I've heard some suggestion that the reason they went after Giordano is because they believe the same thing - that Muzzin won't ever be back to his best.

Surely if that was the case they would have Kucherov'd him. The fact that they didn't, suggests to me that they expect him to make a full recovery and get back upto speed.
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Even before this injury, he wasn't good.
 
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Tak7 said:
I agree, but if they didn't believe he could get back to his best, they would have approached the deadline differently IMO.
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They can't drop him off the cap just because they don't believe he can play well. You can only LTIR a player who is unable to play... or at least one who agrees to say they're unable to play.
 
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Dreakmur said:
They can't drop him off the cap just because they don't believe he can play well. You can only LTIR a player who is unable to play... or at least one who agrees to say they're unable to play.
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:laugh:

I get your point, but I'm pretty certain if they go to him and tell him to chill out for a month before ramping it up come playoff time, he's not going to say no.

And if he does, you rephrase the question in the form of "do you want to win? Sit at home and let us bolster via your capspace, and improve our chances"
 
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zeke said:
That.

And also that's he's too slow to recover defensively when he puts himself out of position or gets beat.
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Interesting take. I’ve been a big fan of his since he came in and thought he took over nicely for muzz but mostly I like him because he seems to like to hit lol

I don’t know hockey as well as a lot of you so that’s why I find these boards interesting. Gives me something to watch for going forward.
 
WayneTrain said:
The way Liljegren has played in his last 3, since Giordano got to town...I'd say it's gotta be Holl that sits if I were making that call today. I used to think you let Muzzin go third pairing when he comes back, and throw Giordano-Brodie back together ... but now I'm not so sure. Now I think you let Giordano and Liljegren continue to grow together, and give the kid a solid and reliable partner that can calm things down. Brodie makes everyone look better, and Muzzin could use it to get back on track with the year he's had to this point. D pairings for game 1:
Rielly-Lyubushkin
Muzzin-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren

Dont have to stress about which pairing gets caught out on the ice.
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Love those pairings, and you’re right, completely comfortable with any of them out on the ice.
 
Rielly-Brodie +0.65 goal diff/60, +0.25 xgoal diff/60
Rielly-Lilly +1.79 goal diff/60, +2.33 xgoal diff/60
Rielly-Boosh -1.19 goal diff/60, +0.68 xgoal diff/60

There's a reason why a thread criticizing Rielly for the first time all year popped up just in the last few weeks.
 
zeke said:
Rielly-Brodie +0.65 goal diff/60, +0.25 xgoal diff/60
Rielly-Lilly +1.79 goal diff/60, +2.33 xgoal diff/60
Rielly-Boosh -1.19 goal diff/60, +0.68 xgoal diff/60

There's a reason why a thread criticizing Rielly for the first time all year popped up just in the last few weeks.
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In fairness you'd be much more inclined to look at xgoal if it was another situation, but he has some pretty clear gaps in his game
 
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