Speculation: Who should be the new GM of the Washington Capitals?

[Ridley Simon]

is this what you are referring to? don't you get that I don't take as a question you expected an answer to as you answered it yourself.

where did I say they should have kept George? there's one for you.

as for being an apologist. where? as for being a poop distributor, its not me saying the that caps have already screwed it up. that they will hire the wrong guy. that they will hire the wrong coach before they hire a gm. that they will hire gretzky that will kill things. that's not me.

yea...some of those people were the greatest haters of McPhee. some thought they would feel better when McPhee got burned. so, McPhee has been burned and they are just as unhappy.
not me.

I was arguably the greatest George "hater" (I don't hate the man at all, but I was extremely vocal in calling for his dismissal over the years), and I am not unhappy. Most of us are waiting patiently to see what happens. They may hire "the wrong guy".....but since they already had "the wrong guy", so at worst it will be a lateral move. At this time in my Cap fandom, it's Cup or bust. Thinking that way, makes me not stress about getting worse. Can't really happen. Only better. Or same.

There are a few that like to wring their hands no matter what is happening....but those guys weren't all George haters. Many loved George, until it became obvious at the end of the year that he was gone. Bandwagoners, Tex.

And it was Poop Disturber, not Distributor. Thought the latter may be apt, as well. Lol

 

[g00n]

I was arguably the greatest George "hater" (I don't hate the man at all, but I was extremely vocal in calling for his dismissal over the years), and I am not unhappy. Most of us are waiting patiently to see what happens. They may hire "the wrong guy".....but since they already had "the wrong guy", so at worst it will be a lateral move. At this time in my Cap fandom, it's Cup or bust. Thinking that way, makes me not stress about getting worse. Can't really happen. Only better. Or same.

There are a few that like to wring their hands no matter what is happening....but those guys weren't all George haters. Many loved George, until it became obvious at the end of the year that he was gone. Bandwagoners, Tex.

And it was Poop Disturber, not Distributor. Thought the latter may be apt, as well. Lol

The Caps have another 17 years without a Cup to go before we can start talking about it getting worse as far as a GM goes, and another 40 years as a team.

For many sports fans regular season performance is enjoyed for its own sake as a daily passtime, but it's always in the context of the greater goal. That goal for the Caps is the Cup. Improvements in stats or points are simply signs of possibly moving toward or away from that goal.

If you had a crystal ball and told me the Caps would make the ECF or Finals every year but fail with Groundhog Day-like regularity to actually win the Cup, I might watch sometimes just to see what was going on but my interest level would go way, way down. I think that's true for most fans. It's not just the goals and regular season (or even playoff) wins that create much of the entertainment value. It's also the hope and uncertainty surrounding the various possibilities, which also give the entire process its value.

If someone doesn't care about the ultimate outcomes and thinks skill is the only reason to follow a team then maybe he should just watch highlight reels on continuous loop, and stop wading into the normal day to day fluctuations of fan satisfaction that come along with a competitive sport that carries no guarantees.

 

[amin723]

I don't know if he will be able to handle accountability or not but this team has been through 4 coaches and now a GM with him on the team. Sounds like everyone is being held accountable BUT Ovechkin to me.

good point. We need to ask him what he's doing leading the entire NHL in points since his rookie season, to force the team to go through so many coaches.

He's probably taking too many shots. Or he's too stubborn and won't change positions at the request of his coach. Or maybe he's partying too hard while living with his parents.

 

[txpd]

sorry fellas. I don't see it that way. you see the wrong guy as no worse and 17 years of no cup as lateral. by definition you are saying that if the next gm and leonsis turned the team into the islanders, oilers or blue jackets that it would be no worse than what the Caps have been.

I suppose there are some that equate finishing dead last with losing game 7 in finals. both fail at the cup and are therefore equal.

from my perspective it could get a lot worse. a lot. I have hopes it will get better. sometimes you have to risk bad things in order to make a run at good things. but that acknowledges that you risk worse and you two seem to be saying it cant get worse. I cant agree.

 

[txpd]

I don't know if he will be able to handle accountability or not but this team has been through 4 coaches and now a GM with him on the team. Sounds like everyone is being held accountable BUT Ovechkin to me.

what is your definition of accountable? 4 coaches have been replaced and a gm replaced during ov's time with the team. are you saying that ov should be replaced?

 

[Liberati0n*]

what is your definition of accountable? 4 coaches have been replaced and a gm replaced during ov's time with the team. are you saying that ov should be replaced?

No, the point of actual day-to-day accountability and high standards is to prevent those replacements from having to happen.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

No, the point of actual day-to-day accountability and high standards is to prevent those replacements from having to happen.

3 of those replacements would have happened regardless of any accountability.

Hanlon's a bad coach, hence not being able to land a job in NA since his tenure.

Hunter never had the intention of coaching for more than a year.

Oates is the worst head coach many of us have ever seen.

The only coach where the 'accountability' thing holds any water is Boudreau, and Ovechkin was the best player on the planet during his time, so I'm not sure why he'd be anywhere close to the main target of ire.

 

[Liberati0n*]

3 of those replacements would have happened regardless of any accountability.

Hanlon's a bad coach, hence not being able to land a job in NA since his tenure.

Hunter never had the intention of coaching for more than a year.

Oates is the worst head coach many of us have ever seen.

The only coach where the 'accountability' thing holds any water is Boudreau, and Ovechkin was the best player on the planet during his time, so I'm not sure why he'd be anywhere close to the main target of ire.

Those examples aren't the point. txpd seemed to want an explanation of what accountability means in principle, and that's what I'm talking about. Replacing people can be a form of it, when other things have failed, but real accountability is holding people to high standards on a daily basis and creating a culture that demands respect for those standards. If they're violated, which they generally won't be, you make it clear that's completely unacceptable and a very big deal, however you might go about doing so in particular situations.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Those examples aren't the point. txpd seemed to want an explanation of what accountability means in principle, and that's what I'm talking about. Replacing people can be a form of it, when other things have failed, but real accountability is holding people to high standards on a daily basis and creating a culture that demands respect for those standards. If they're violated, which they generally won't be, you make it clear that's completely unacceptable and a very big deal, however you might go about doing so in particular situations.

Those examples are entirely the point, as the post that was responded to accused the lack of accountability of Ovechkin as causing coaching changes.

 

[RockDaRed]

what is your definition of accountable? 4 coaches have been replaced and a gm replaced during ov's time with the team. are you saying that ov should be replaced?

I believe he's saying Ovi is to blame for the coach and GM firings. That more blame should be on his head. Which is funny cuz generally who does the media blame for the losses? Ovechkin. Interesting that the guy that kept the seasom from being absolutely awful is on trial.

 

[Bure]

Man I can't wait til the new GM/coach are fired. Fire X, Fire Y!

 

[txpd]

No, the point of actual day-to-day accountability and high standards is to prevent those replacements from having to happen.

how would that accountability take shape is what I am curious about? being forced to play with jay beagle? being publically called out by the coach? being benched for long stretches of games where the caps held a lead?

what kind of accountability are you looking for and do we know that it hasn't been applied?

 

[ChibiPooky]

Man I can't wait til the new GM/coach are fired. Fire X, Fire Y!

Just fire them now for being too slow to get hired.

 

[txpd]

I believe he's saying Ovi is to blame for the coach and GM firings. That more blame should be on his head. Which is funny cuz generally who does the media blame for the losses? Ovechkin. Interesting that the guy that kept the seasom from being absolutely awful is on trial.

when Russia loses, ov gets blamed. when the caps lose, ov gets blamed. when a coach is replaced, ov gets blamed.

so...he gets the blame. I don't think that is the accountability that they are looking for.

 

[Bure]

Just fire them now for being too slow to get hired.

May as well fire their replacements while we're at it.

 

[ChibiPooky]

May as well fire their replacements while we're at it.

They are on pace for 0 Stanley Cups.

 

[BobRouse]

Well that's the issue, isn't it? The concept that blind homerism is somehow morally better than everything else.

If you never tolerate "negativity" then you're always right, aren't you? If the new GM stinks, you "win" for defending the previous regime. If the new GM is good you "win" because you can credit ownership for making the right move at the right time, and everyone who lacked faith in the Caps organization was just being a negative nelly.

Here's the difference between the two sides: the "negative" people value the same thing as expressed by the format and reward structure of the league itself: WINNING and PRODUCTION.

Sugarcoating performance that falls short is not consistent with the ultimate goals and values built into the league itself. So when you jump on the latest bandwagon for the sake of homerism, and start excusing or explaining things in a context that values "positivity" over winning and production, don't be surprised if people who align their values with the league itself don't really care to hear it.

What you and TX see as faithlessness and negativity, we see as being realistic and goal oriented. What you see as fickle lack of loyalty we see as setting standards that require flexibility in approach. What you see as support, we see as shaking pom-poms and leading cheers.

You have enlightened me Goon!

From now on I will get really, really, REALLY mad on the interwebz and scold the Caps!!

I'll still watch and support the team but gosh darnit I'll be REALLY mad that we aren't on the right track.

I CHAMPION CHANGE! It starts from us fans!!! But I'm too lazy to do anything about it...outside of...wait for it...get REALLY mad on the interwebz!!!

Getting really mad on the Interwebz on a message board with maybe a few dozen Caps fans will SURELY make the Caps a better team!

Did I mention from now on I'm going to be REALLY MAD at the Caps!?!?!?!

In fact...FIRE THE NEW GM! MAKE TED SELL THE TEAM! THROW MIKE GREEN IN A VOLACANO!

LOUD NOISES!!!!

 

[g00n]

sorry fellas. I don't see it that way. you see the wrong guy as no worse and 17 years of no cup as lateral. by definition you are saying that if the next gm and leonsis turned the team into the islanders, oilers or blue jackets that it would be no worse than what the Caps have been.

I suppose there are some that equate finishing dead last with losing game 7 in finals. both fail at the cup and are therefore equal.

from my perspective it could get a lot worse. a lot. I have hopes it will get better. sometimes you have to risk bad things in order to make a run at good things. but that acknowledges that you risk worse and you two seem to be saying it cant get worse. I cant agree.

Again, not what was said. If a team doesn't at least TRY to take legitimate shots at a championship it isn't worth following. Again, regular season results are measured in the context of the final goal.

Do you think Ted is going to let the team stink for 17 years in last place and do nothing? Really? How is that even on the table??

 

[g00n]

You have enlightened me Goon!

From now on I will get really, really, REALLY mad on the interwebz and scold the Caps!!

I'll still watch and support the team but gosh darnit I'll be REALLY mad that we aren't on the right track.

I CHAMPION CHANGE! It starts from us fans!!! But I'm too lazy to do anything about it...outside of...wait for it...get REALLY mad on the interwebz!!!

Getting really mad on the Interwebz on a message board with maybe a few dozen Caps fans will SURELY make the Caps a better team!

Did I mention from now on I'm going to be REALLY MAD at the Caps!?!?!?!

In fact...FIRE THE NEW GM! MAKE TED SELL THE TEAM! THROW MIKE GREEN IN A VOLACANO!

LOUD NOISES!!!!

Sorry but there are more ways to be a fan than the two extremes you've chosen.

 

[txpd]

Again, not what was said. If a team doesn't at least TRY to take legitimate shots at a championship it isn't worth following. Again, regular season results are measured in the context of the final goal.

Do you think Ted is going to let the team stink for 17 years in last place and do nothing? Really? How is that even on the table??

it is what you said. "The Caps have another 17 years without a Cup to go before we can start talking about it getting worse as far as a GM goes"

do I think ted is going to let the team stink for another 17 years? no, but I don't buy that McPhee's 17 teams stank. I think there were several quality teams that didn't win the cup. unless you are saying that no cup = stink.

I will just put this to rest. I am fine that McPhee is gone. I hope they hire a good gm. I wont judge said gm til he has showed his work. I am not going to say he is the wrong guy because leonsis waited too long to hire him. I will wait and see what the team is like. Right now I have no position on anything because nothing is on the table to value.

 

[g00n]

it is what you said. "The Caps have another 17 years without a Cup to go before we can start talking about it getting worse as far as a GM goes"

Which you turned into 17 years of not trying and being in last place. Not what I said.

 

[Liberati0n*]

Those examples are entirely the point, as the post that was responded to accused the lack of accountability of Ovechkin as causing coaching changes.

I guess I didn't really read the context of the post. Either way, they were beside the point of my post.

how would that accountability take shape is what I am curious about? being forced to play with jay beagle? being publically called out by the coach? being benched for long stretches of games where the caps held a lead?

what kind of accountability are you looking for and do we know that it hasn't been applied?

Well, for one thing, in picking those situations you're asking me about how to establish "accountability" after it already hasn't existed for a while, which is different than having it in place from the beginning. I don't know exactly.

The Oates instances you list were, even if we assume they do fit what I'm talking about, fatally flawed because they were part of a larger scheme of incoherent and inconsistent management on Oates' part. Inconsistency is what doomed Boudreau's attempt to be harder on Ovechkin+ in 2011 too. Oates was also passive aggressive and the story of some of those instances may been more about him losing his composure and letting his (childlike, narcissistic) emotions overrun his brilliant plan.

The Hunter thing probably fits. Obviously, it needed to be turned towards a productive approach to growing Ovechkin's game, which we don't know if it was to that point. It's really more about the organizational culture. It's about setting expectations and standards that have never sincerely been set in Washington. I'm not as concerned with what punishment should be applied when players violate/don't meet those standards as I am with setting up a situation where they won't be violated in the first place. If you cultivate a serious environment where people take their responsibilities seriously and there are high standards and goals you're focused on, people coming into that environment will automatically absorb that culture (unless they're just really self-absorbed, someone like Oates could be an exception here).

The situation with Ovechkin isn't a story of what's not being done now, but of what wasn't done 7-8 years ago.

 

[BobRouse]

Sorry but there are more ways to be a fan than the two extremes you've chosen.

I think you missed the part where I'm going to be REALLY mad on this message board. I'm with Goon here!

Change! Hope! Brought to you by Rids, Goon and Tinner!

Our combined anger and displeasure will completely change the complexion of the team, turn them around and show infidels like TX how its done!

Everyone else...If you are not with us then you are against us!!!

 

[NoMoreChoking]

I'm all in on Shero now just cause he has the balls and eyes to admit that Letang is bad and tried to trade him.

Hoping he can do the same with Green

 

[BobRouse]

The Hunter thing probably fits. Obviously, it needed to be turned towards a productive approach to growing Ovechkin's game, which we don't know if it was to that point. It's really more about the organizational culture. It's about setting expectations and standards that have never sincerely been set in Washington. I'm not as concerned with what punishment should be applied when players violate/don't meet those standards as I am with setting up a situation where they won't be violated in the first place. If you cultivate a serious environment where people take their responsibilities seriously and there are high standards and goals you're focused on, people coming into that environment will automatically absorb that culture (unless they're just really self-absorbed, someone like Oates could be an exception here).

.

You mean like our 80s and 90s teams? Murray squared and Schoeny all had serious levels of accountability. We had multiple HOF defensemen and a HOF forward with 700 career goals (and another guy just outside of the HOF with 500)

Accountability does not necessarily equal success. There are about a billion other things involved