Who is the 17th best player so far in the 21st Century?

[wetcoast]

17th in a series of 25 polls inspired by a recent ESPN poll.

so far this is the top 16 are

1.Crosby
3. Ovechkin
3. McDavid
4. Lidstrom
5. Malkin
6. Brodeur
7. Kucherov
8. Kane
9. Mackinnon
10. Pronger
11. Datsyuk
12. Chara
13. Karlsson
14. Thornton
15. Draisaitl
16. Keith

Click to read more...

 

[banks]

Price.

But I'm also surprised Jagr hasn't been picked yet.

 

[HBK27]

Where is Niedermayer? Played more than half of his HOF career and won 3 Cups in the 2000's.

He retired in 2010 at the age of 36, but was still playing at a very high level, posting 48 points in 80 games his final season. Could've easily played 3 or so more seasons if he wanted.

 

[wetcoast]

Where is Niedermayer? Played more than half of his HOF career and won 3 Cups in the 2000's.

He retired in 2010 at the age of 36, but was still playing at a very high level, posting 48 points in 80 games his final season. Could've easily played 3 or so more seasons if he wanted.

Niedermayer in the 21st Century is obviously behind guys like Doughy and Hedman so that's why he isn't an option.

Price.

But I'm also surprised Jagr hasn't been picked yet.

Really there are probably 4 or 5 better forwards in the NHL left this Century before I take Jagr.

 

[bobholly39]

Price.

But I'm also surprised Jagr hasn't been picked yet.

I also voted Price
I don't think Jagr should be picked yet - but based on some of the early polls, I agree. I'm pretty sure Jagr was getting the 2nd most votes in rounds 4 or 5 here. I think it took a while for people to figure out this is 2000-2001 season & on.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Price

He had one of the best year ever recorded for a goalie, was voted as the best goalie by the players like 5 or 6 years in a row and was without a doubt the player the most useful to his team while he was playing
Just take a look to the record the Habs had with and without Price

His Trophy case is thinner than it should be but you can blame both Bergevin (for the bad teams Price had to play for) and Kreider (for being a f***ing POS)

 

[I am not exposed]

Lundqvist and Luongo are both better than Price.

 

[ShootIt]

For me, it's hard to rate goalies vs skaters.

I went with Bergy. His 2 way play was huge for the Boston Bruins. While not a superstar offensively, he was very good offensively and elite defensively.

6 Selkes, 3 time allstar, 1 Cup and some other awards.

 

[bobholly39]

Lundqvist and Luongo are both better than Price.

Price is definitely the better goalie of the 3.

You might have an argument if you want to argue either/or had a better career. I still lean Price though, but I'm big on peak.

 

[bobholly39]

For me, it's hard to rate goalies vs skaters.

I went with Bergy. His 2 way play was huge for the Boston Bruins. While not a superstar offensively, he was very good offensively and elite defensively.

6 Selkes, 3 time allstar, 1 Cup and some other awards.

Making the all-star game isn't all that relevant. Making an end of season all-star team is what counts, and Bergeron has none of those.

The 6 Selke are great - I'd argue his 12 straight top 3 finish is even more impressive then just the 6 wins.

For me though - he's still far behind on such a list. There's at least 5-6 names I take here before I consider him,

 

[TGWL]

I like Price but I have a hard time voting for him. He had some fantastic numbers in 2013-2014, 2014-2015, and 2016-2017, and we'll never know how long that could have lasted if he stayed healthy, but I struggle to put him above somebody like Lundqvist who carried his team such a long time. I guess you can just look at all time peak vs all time peak based on that 1 season which dominated goalies everywhere.

I don't think Kopitar gets enough credit.

 

[Rebels57]

In case anyone is wondering, since 00-01 Jagr scored 963 points in 1008 Regular Season NHL games.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Hossa since 99/00 has 1103 points +228, for 10th overall

Since 00/01 has 1047 points, for 14th overall

 

[banks]

I also voted Price
I don't think Jagr should be picked yet - but based on some of the early polls, I agree. I'm pretty sure Jagr was getting the 2nd most votes in rounds 4 or 5 here. I think it took a while for people to figure out this is 2000-2001 season & on.

That makes sense. That era has a lot of nostalgia for people.

I certainly am not voting Jagr in yet. But considering his era is usually seen with rose coloured glasses around here, it's a bit of a shock that he hasn't been nostalgia voted in. I'm not even a fan and even I paused at his name wondering if I missed something.

Add Toews

 

[Bouboumaster]

Lundqvist and Luongo are both better than Price.

You could make a case for Luongo

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Price had the better peak but Lundqvist was better longer.

 

[Voight]

You could make a case for Luongo

Why not Lundqvist?

Sam number of Vezinas as Price (their winning seasons almost match up perfectly) plus four other seasons where ehe was nominated vs one other for Price. More AST's than Price.

Overall Hank has ten seasons where he finished top ten in Vezina voting vs seven for Price.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Why not Lundqvist?

Sam number of Vezinas as Price (their winning seasons almost match up perfectly) plus four other seasons where ehe was nominated vs one other for Price. More AST's than Price.

Overall Hank has ten seasons where he finished top ten in Vezina voting vs seven for Price.

Because Price's impact on the Habs >>> Hank's on NYR
Plus the fact that their pairs recognized Price as the best goalie on Earth right Up until Vasilevsky came around (and Price was basically playing with one leg)
Plus the fact that NYR was absolutly better than the Habs

 

[wetcoast]

Price is definitely the better goalie of the 3.

You might have an argument if you want to argue either/or had a better career. I still lean Price though, but I'm big on peak.

What exactly are you using for peak and how does his peak compare to other goalies available here?

Vasilevskiy has a decent peak but I honestly don't know how to rank goalies and either way I prefer a guy like Kopitar or Doughty here,

The fact that Jager is leading right now with 8 votes is really weird as you only get to count the 2000-2001 season onwards.

Scoring finishes are 1,2,5 and 8 and his playoff resume isn't even in the top 50% of guys left, WTF?

I'd actually take all 6 forwards left over him right now.

Kopitar, Stamkos and Iginla are 6,7,8th in points this century

Hossa 14th
Bergeron 16th

Jagr is 24th

 

[um]

It can’t be Price over Lundqvist and Luongo. There’s way too many down seasons in there.

 

[Voight]

Because Price's impact on the Habs >>> Hank's on NYR
Plus the fact that their pairs recognized Price as the best goalie on Earth right Up until Vasilevsky came around (and Price was basically playing with one leg)
Plus the fact that NYR was absolutly better than the Habs

Borrowing this from @Kupo

The idea that Price was behind a Much, Much worse team is complete horse shit.


07 [MTL 257 GF] [NYR 205 GF]
Kovy (84) Pleks (69) Streit (62) Markov (58) Koivu (56)
Jagr (71) Gomez (70) Drury (58) Shanny (46) Straka (41)

08 [MTL 242 GF] [NYR 200 GF]
Kovy (65) Markov (64) Koivu (50)
Zherdev (58) Gomez (58) Drury (56)

09 [MTL 210 GF] [NYR 219 GF]
Pleks (70) Gomez (59) Camy (50)
Gabs (86) Prospal (58) Dubi (44)

10 [MTL 213 GF] [NYR 224 GF]
Pleks (57) Cammy (47) Gionta (46) Kost(46)
Dubi (54) Callahan(48) Gaborik(48) Stepan(45)

11 [MTL 207 GF] [NYR 222 GF]
Patches(65) Cole(61) Desharnais(60) Pleks(52)
Gaborik(76) Richards(66) Callahan(55) Stepan (51)

12 [MTL 146 GF] [NYR 126 GF]
Patches(39) Subban(38) Pleks(33) Markov(30)
Stepan(44) Nash(42) Richards(34) Callahan (31)

13 [MTL 209 GF] [NYR 214 GF]
Patches(60) Subban(53) Desh(52) Pleks(43)
Zucc(59) Stepan(57) Richards(51) Brassard(45)

14 [MTL 214 GF] [NYR 248 GF]
Patches(67) Pleks(60) Subban(60) Markov(50)
Nash(69) Brassard(60) Stepan(55) Zucc(49)

15 [MTL 216 GF] [NYR 233 GF]
Patches(64) Galch(56) Pleks(54) Subban(51)
Zucc(61) Brassard(58) Stepan(53) Yandle(47)

16 [MTL 223 GF] [NYR 253 GF]
Patchs(67) Radulov(54) Galch(44) Byron(43
Zucc(59) JTM(56) Stepan(55) Kreider (53)

The Rangers scored 7 more goals than the Habs over these 10 season's. (2,137 vs 2,144). Posters suggesting Price did more with less are completely clueless and don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Both offense's were equally pathetic. Almost identical. So No. Price was not as good as Lundqvist with Much, Much worse. That's an asinine, lazy statement.

-------------------

I dont think it's fair to say Price had a way bigger impact on his team compared to Hank. The Rangers only ever went as far as they did because of him. They weren't some powerhouse team that happened to have an elite goalie, the goalie was the team.

 

[Crow]

These fine players all seem a tier below the rest so far to me outside of pronger who is far too high. Doughty deserves this one, and I’d have him above pronger too. Actually doughty belongs in this tier.

And I know pronger was a physically imposing d man with offensive prowess but half his career was played outside of this time period. During this time period he was close to an even +/- player on very very good teams. Real contenders.

I’d love to hear the argument for him. I don’t get it. Like way to almost get it done in the playoffs a lot?

 

[jigglysquishy]

I’d love to hear the argument for him. I don’t get it. Like way to almost get it done in the playoffs a lot?

In 2004 the Oilers missed the playoffs. In 2006 they made the Cup final with Pronger as their best player.

Then he goes to the Ducks and is their best player when they win the Cup.

He's the best player on the Flyers when they go the Cup final in 2010.

He was a Norris finalist in 2004 and 2007. Likely was best defenseman on per game basis in 2001 and 2007.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Price by quite a bit. Him and Draisaitl should've gone way higher.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Borrowing this from @Kupo

The idea that Price was behind a Much, Much worse team is complete horse shit.


07 [MTL 257 GF] [NYR 205 GF]
Kovy (84) Pleks (69) Streit (62) Markov (58) Koivu (56)
Jagr (71) Gomez (70) Drury (58) Shanny (46) Straka (41)

08 [MTL 242 GF] [NYR 200 GF]
Kovy (65) Markov (64) Koivu (50)
Zherdev (58) Gomez (58) Drury (56)

09 [MTL 210 GF] [NYR 219 GF]
Pleks (70) Gomez (59) Camy (50)
Gabs (86) Prospal (58) Dubi (44)

10 [MTL 213 GF] [NYR 224 GF]
Pleks (57) Cammy (47) Gionta (46) Kost(46)
Dubi (54) Callahan(48) Gaborik(48) Stepan(45)

11 [MTL 207 GF] [NYR 222 GF]
Patches(65) Cole(61) Desharnais(60) Pleks(52)
Gaborik(76) Richards(66) Callahan(55) Stepan (51)

12 [MTL 146 GF] [NYR 126 GF]
Patches(39) Subban(38) Pleks(33) Markov(30)
Stepan(44) Nash(42) Richards(34) Callahan (31)

13 [MTL 209 GF] [NYR 214 GF]
Patches(60) Subban(53) Desh(52) Pleks(43)
Zucc(59) Stepan(57) Richards(51) Brassard(45)

14 [MTL 214 GF] [NYR 248 GF]
Patches(67) Pleks(60) Subban(60) Markov(50)
Nash(69) Brassard(60) Stepan(55) Zucc(49)

15 [MTL 216 GF] [NYR 233 GF]
Patches(64) Galch(56) Pleks(54) Subban(51)
Zucc(61) Brassard(58) Stepan(53) Yandle(47)

16 [MTL 223 GF] [NYR 253 GF]
Patchs(67) Radulov(54) Galch(44) Byron(43
Zucc(59) JTM(56) Stepan(55) Kreider (53)

The Rangers scored 7 more goals than the Habs over these 10 season's. (2,137 vs 2,144). Posters suggesting Price did more with less are completely clueless and don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Both offense's were equally pathetic. Almost identical. So No. Price was not as good as Lundqvist with Much, Much worse. That's an asinine, lazy statement.

-------------------

I dont think it's fair to say Price had a way bigger impact on his team compared to Hank. The Rangers only ever went as far as they did because of him. They weren't some powerhouse team that happened to have an elite goalie, the goalie was the team.

This is revisionist history, there was never any universe during that time where anybody would look at New York and Montreal's rosters and not think New York was the much stronger team. Their defense in particular was always incredibly deep, with guys like McDonagh, Staal, Girardi, Stralman, Boyle, and Yandle playing for them.

As a Sens fan who saw the Senators face off in the playoffs against both the Canadiens and the Rangers twice during those years (and have a 1-1 record against both), there was no question New York was the much stronger team. Montreal were always very mediocre rosters, dragged by a crazy good goalie in Price.