Where does Leetch rank amongst his peers?

[moose94]

I think for a solid 5 seasons he was the best Defenseman in the NHL. Perhaps at certain points in time, only Bourque was better. Other than that I think you'd be hard pressed to pick another Dman for a run at the Cup. I loved watching him play with Messier. They were the dynamic duo here in New York.

So I guess my question is where does Leetch rank against other Defensemen of his generation? I don't think there was any Dman I'd take over him.

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[Crease]

Top 5ish? It’s hard. So many Hall of Famers in his era. Bourque, Chelios, Stevens, Lidstrom, Coffey, MacInnis, Pronger. Choose your weapon.

 

[Megustaelhockey]

For my money, Leetch is the best American-born defenseman ever, but you can make an argument for Chelios, too. Lidstrom, Bourque, and Coffey were probably better. MacInnis, Pronger, and Stevens not as talented or consistent.

 

[moose94]

For my money, Leetch is the best American-born defenseman ever, but you can make an argument for Chelios, too. Lidstrom, Bourque, and Coffey were probably better. MacInnis, Pronger, and Stevens not as talented or consistent.

If you put any of them on that 94 team and replace Leetch I don't think the Rangers win that Cup. They needed every bit of Leetch's greatness to beat NJ and Bure and the Canucks.

I think 94 Leetch is the most dominant Conn Smythe from the 80s onward aside from Gretzky.

I would take it further and say Leetch is the greatest American player ever, for any position.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Peak Leetch is behind Bourque and Coffey, and that's it.

In the 90's Peak Leetch behind Bourque and that's it.

Lidstrom beat him in consistency but no one could take over a game like Leetch. Bourque was just a monster at both ends of the ice, and Coffey with his skating skill was diet Bobby Orr in his prime.

MacInnis was all about the slapshot, Stevens and Chelios couldn't match Leetch's offense. Pronger was below all of them while still an outstanding player.

So, career wise:
Bourque
Coffey
Lidstrom
Leetch
MacInnis
Chelios
Stevens
Pronger

peak wise:
Coffey
Bourque
Leetch
Lidstrom
MacInnis
Chelios
Stevens
Pronger

90s wise:
Bourque
Leetch
Coffey
Lidstrom
Chelios
Stevens
MacInnis
Pronger

 

[moose94]

Peak Leetch is behind Bourque and Coffey, and that's it.

In the 90's Peak Leetch behind Bourque and that's it.

Lidstrom beat him in consistency but no one could take over a game like Leetch. Bourque was just a monster at both ends of the ice, and Coffey with his skating skill was diet Bobby Orr in his prime.

MacInnis was all about the slapshot, Stevens and Chelios couldn't match Leetch's offense. Pronger was below all of them while still an outstanding player.

So, career wise:
Bourque
Coffey
Lidstrom
Leetch
MacInnis
Chelios
Stevens
Pronger

peak wise:
Coffey
Bourque
Leetch
Lidstrom
MacInnis
Chelios
Stevens
Pronger

90s wise:
Bourque
Leetch
Coffey
Lidstrom
Chelios
Stevens
MacInnis
Pronger

I agree with much of this. Leetch had a higher ceiling than just about any Defenseman with the exception of maybe Bourque or Coffey. But I'd still take Leetch over them at his peak. All due respect to Bourque but he never delivered the Cup to Boston while Leetch did deliver for New York. And Leetch was under more pressure than any player in NHL history to do it. Coffey was unbelievable offensively but Leetch was better at both ends of the ice.

Pronger at the bottom is accurate. He's somewhat overhyped on these boards. Chelios was more physical and played forever but he was not at any point a better or more valuable player than Leetch. I don't understand why some lists have him ranked above Leetch.

One thing I've noticed is this myth that Leetch "flamed out" and was only great for a short time, which is bologna. Leetch had 79 points in 2001 at age 33 in the dead puck era, and even by the time he was on the Leafs near the end of his career he was still playing great hockey.

Leetch played on terrible non-playoff teams for years. It's the same thing Kane dealt with on the Hawks for the past 8 years or so. Great player on awful teams. You don't become 1 of 8 Defenseman in NHL history to have over 1,000 points by only being great for a few years. Leetch's teams were just beyond dreadful. Not even Messier could do anything for them when he came back.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

For my money, Leetch is the best American-born defenseman ever, but you can make an argument for Chelios, too. Lidstrom, Bourque, and Coffey were probably better. MacInnis, Pronger, and Stevens not as talented or consistent.

This is where I'm at. Leetch was the best American born defenseman so far.

And had Leetch not been forced to spend half his career on mediocre Rangers teams he'd probably have more trophies in his case.

Also, consider that he basically did all he did on two destroyed ankles.

Guy was flat out dominant offensively and underrated defensively.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

I agree with much of this. Leetch had a higher ceiling than just about any Defenseman with the exception of maybe Bourque or Coffey. But I'd still take Leetch over them at his peak. All due respect to Bourque but he never delivered the Cup to Boston while Leetch did deliver for New York. And Leetch was under more pressure than any player in NHL history to do it. Coffey was unbelievable offensively but Leetch was better at both ends of the ice.

Pronger at the bottom is accurate. He's somewhat overhyped on these boards. Chelios was more physical and played forever but he was not at any point a better or more valuable player than Leetch. I don't understand why some lists have him ranked above Leetch.

One thing I've noticed is this myth that Leetch "flamed out" and was only great for a short time, which is bologna. Leetch had 79 points in 2001 at age 33 in the dead puck era, and even by the time he was on the Leafs near the end of his career he was still playing great hockey.

Leetch played on terrible non-playoff teams for years. It's the same thing Kane dealt with on the Hawks for the past 8 years or so. Great player on awful teams. You don't become 1 of 8 Defenseman in NHL history to have over 1,000 points by only being great for a few years. Leetch's teams were just beyond dreadful. Not even Messier could do anything for them when he came back.

Exactly, as the offense went, so did Leetch.

It was no surprise then that Leetch lit it up in 2001 when Fleury found his scoring, and the Czechmates were flying up and down the ice, with Messier returning successfully. The biggest issue with the 01 team - which was their best since 97, at the time - was that they couldn't defend. Rich Pilon, Brad Brown, Sylvain Lefebvre, and Dale Purinton in your lineup for that many games is just not a recipe for success. Never mind they still almost made the playoffs until Richter got hurt and the dynamic duo of McLean and Hebert started letting in 4 a game, then you realized Richter and his 3.28 GAA and .893 were actually stealing games all along.

Always wanted Leetch to return for 05-06 and it's a crime he didn't. That would have filled our biggest need that season. Wouldn't have needed to trade for the defensive liability of Sandis Ozolinsh either. Would've been great to see Leetch with the Jagr unit on the PP...wouldn't have been surprised if coming back re-energized him and he decided to play a couple more seasons, either.

 

[Machinehead]

The only definitely one better at the time Leetch played was Bourque.

Leetch could have put up the same numbers Coffey did if his career started when Coffey's did.

Lidstrom did the vast majority of his Norris damage after Leetch was retired.

Pronger was also way more notable in the 2000's and was never as good as Leetch anyway.

I guess a case could be made for MacInnis.

Chelios...eh. It was a different game, but looking back with a more modern sensibility, he took way too many penalties.

30 point ass Scott Stevens is not one of Leetch's peers. Glorified Matthis Ekholm.

Career, Bourque and Lidstrom.

 

[CasusBelli]

Surprised no one has mentioned Phil Housley.

 

[moose94]

I think at his peak, Leetch was the most well rounded of them all. Even physically, Leetch could hit when he had to. Those hip checks were nasty! Coffey was better (maybe) offensively. Chelios was better physically. Lidstrom was (maybe) better defensively. But NONE of these players were "really good" at EVERYTHING the way Leetch was.

And out of all these guys, Leetch to me was the best "big game" Defenseman of the bunch!

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Surprised no one has mentioned Phil Housley.

IMO Housley was in the Pronger category of clearly below the rest.

Housley's offense = Pronger's defense. However, Housley's defense was probably average at best and well below that of his peers.

A great player for sure, but not among the greatest at the position, even in his own era.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Surprised no one has mentioned Phil Housley.

Housley always had pretty stats, but was known during his playing days as a PP specialist who barely played defense & hated contact.

 

[CasusBelli]

Housley always had pretty stats, but was known during his playing days as a PP specialist who barely played defense & hated contact.

Fair point. I was just going by stats.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Fair point. I was just going by stats.

Housley was a brilliant skater. And had an above average shot. Just not a great 2 way defenseman, however.

 

[moose94]

Leetch in his prime was being compared to Bobby Orr and Messier was saying he was the best player in the league. Enough said.

 

[markymarc1215]

Peak Leetch was an elite talent we won't see again. His vision and ability to skate the puck out are unmatched. I know Fox is great and is the closest thing we've had to Leetch, but there is a huge gap in my opinion.

Watch the 91-92 regular season, and the 93-94 and 94-95 playoffs, and you will see a player just under Coffey and Bourque.

Floor Leetch (most of the late 90s and early 2000s aside from 01-02) was still a legit #1 defenseman, but nowhere near what we saw from 88-97. To be fair, he had awful teams in front of him, and when Beukeboom retired, he just never found that steady partner again.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Peak Leetch was an elite talent we won't see again. His vision and ability to skate the puck out are unmatched. I know Fox is great and is the closest thing we've had to Leetch, but there is a huge gap in my opinion.

Watch the 91-92 regular season, and the 93-94 and 94-95 playoffs, and you will see a player just under Coffey and Bourque.

Floor Leetch (most of the late 90s and early 2000s aside from 01-02) was still a legit #1 defenseman, but nowhere near what we saw from 88-97. To be fair, he had awful teams in front of him, and when Beukeboom retired, he just never found that steady partner again.

I think he's equal to if not better than Coffey. Put Leetch on those mid-late 80s Edmonton teams & he's putting up MONSTER numbers like Coffey did while playing better defense.

Later career, the late 90s early 2000s Rangers teams not only killed his stats, but probably broke his spirit as well. Plus he was really beat up by that point. Two broken ankles, nerve damage in his shoulder, separated shoulder, etc etc over the years starts to add up when you factor in all the minutes he played.

Fox is a very good player, but Leetch was at a very different level. I've said this many times on this site when this discussion is brought up, but Leetch's performance in he 94 playoffs has only been topped by two others in the last 40 years. Pick your favorite playoff year from Gretzky & Lemieux in '91. That's it. Plus Leetch did it while playing elite defense 30 minutes a night. That was a glorious time to be a Ranger fan. Of course winning the Cup was special, but watching one of our own players perform like that for 2 months was just so much fun to watch.