Igy
Registered User
- Mar 3, 2011
- 2,097
- 2
Yes, with our brutal PK and abysmal team defense we can afford to let our most reliable and effective defensive forward walk.
No.
Is this 2012/2013?
No.
Where do we go from here?
- Thread starter Bardown warrior
- Start date
Is this 2012/2013?
No.
Fire the coach + dramatically re-shape the core. Hold on to guys who are elite players on any team (Kessel, JVR, Bernier) + Rielly and our young guys like Percy, Finn, Granberg, etc.
Everyone else on the chopping block for the right price.
Everyone else on the chopping block for the right price.
Emotional responses? This is the third year in a row that they are on the brink of choking away the season. This core can't get it done and it starts with guys like Phaneuf.
The team has the ability to turn this slide around, whether or not the people in this thread blinded by rage refuse to believe it. Bernier just came back and we played one of the best teams in the West, got HORRIBLY outshot and still managed to keep the score close.
Let's give it a few more games before we call it quits on this team.
Bardown warrior
Registered User
pucci2001
Registered User
- Jun 3, 2012
- 1,607
- 30
I am gonna say one more year with these guys(Nonis, Carlyle). My reason being we had a dynamite start to the year, though it was always a bit questionable how things went. Then we had our season marred by injuries and Bernier goes down at the most inopportune time.
Ownership had a say in the Clarkson deal, no matter what we all think Nonis just doesn't get to write cheques like that without ownership backing him. So they likely get one more season. Nonis will at the very least.
Our biggest problem is our breakout. Franson has a hot potato in our own end most times, Gunner doesnt have that good of vision though he is a solid guy back there. Dion is hit or miss. Rielly is young as hell, Gardiner is youngish, Ranger was starting to come around as of late.
I think we need to make a move to get a real dman that can play a stable role. One that we know will never pinch, will kill anyone that even breathes on Bernier, won't get outmuscled in front of the net by the likes of Gionta and Steen. It doesn't even have to be someone flashy, it could even be a guy like Willie Mitchell or Robidas. I think we bring in 2 people on the back end. Let Franson walk and hope Rielly and Gardiner pick up the slack in the point department, they are capable.
I also think we should go after a guy like Ott, play Ott and Clarkson on the 3rd line and keep Kulemin for our 2nd/3rd line swing guy if we can sign him for a fair price.
Could see our line up looking like this next season:
JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Kulemin/Ott/Clarkson(Outside chance Moulson/Callahan etc.)
Ott - Bolland(if we keep him or else Kulemin)- Clarkson
Bodie - Holland - McLaren/D'amigo/ or someone young/cheap
Rielly - New guy we sign or trade for
Phaneuf - Gunnersson
Gardiner - Gleason
Ranger if they can keep him for ~1mill.
I wouldn't mind see us make a trade involving Clarkson or letting Kulemin walk and signing Moulson or Callahan.
Stripping the C off Dion's jersey should be a given as well.
At most I think we bring in 3 new faces, everyone else we get will be brought from the AHL excluding our back up goalie.
I am curious to see what we get for Reimer but I am going to guess a second round pick or we package him with Kadri or Gardiner for some scary deal that I doubt I will like.
Sorry for the massive wall of text. I just think it is stupid to blow up too much so quickly. I also feel like the players a lot of people feel are problems were recently locked up so it will be hard to move them unless we make a deal packaging good prospects and eating cap which is going to be a lateral move anyways.
Ownership had a say in the Clarkson deal, no matter what we all think Nonis just doesn't get to write cheques like that without ownership backing him. So they likely get one more season. Nonis will at the very least.
Our biggest problem is our breakout. Franson has a hot potato in our own end most times, Gunner doesnt have that good of vision though he is a solid guy back there. Dion is hit or miss. Rielly is young as hell, Gardiner is youngish, Ranger was starting to come around as of late.
I think we need to make a move to get a real dman that can play a stable role. One that we know will never pinch, will kill anyone that even breathes on Bernier, won't get outmuscled in front of the net by the likes of Gionta and Steen. It doesn't even have to be someone flashy, it could even be a guy like Willie Mitchell or Robidas. I think we bring in 2 people on the back end. Let Franson walk and hope Rielly and Gardiner pick up the slack in the point department, they are capable.
I also think we should go after a guy like Ott, play Ott and Clarkson on the 3rd line and keep Kulemin for our 2nd/3rd line swing guy if we can sign him for a fair price.
Could see our line up looking like this next season:
JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Kulemin/Ott/Clarkson(Outside chance Moulson/Callahan etc.)
Ott - Bolland(if we keep him or else Kulemin)- Clarkson
Bodie - Holland - McLaren/D'amigo/ or someone young/cheap
Rielly - New guy we sign or trade for
Phaneuf - Gunnersson
Gardiner - Gleason
Ranger if they can keep him for ~1mill.
I wouldn't mind see us make a trade involving Clarkson or letting Kulemin walk and signing Moulson or Callahan.
Stripping the C off Dion's jersey should be a given as well.
At most I think we bring in 3 new faces, everyone else we get will be brought from the AHL excluding our back up goalie.
I am curious to see what we get for Reimer but I am going to guess a second round pick or we package him with Kadri or Gardiner for some scary deal that I doubt I will like.
Sorry for the massive wall of text. I just think it is stupid to blow up too much so quickly. I also feel like the players a lot of people feel are problems were recently locked up so it will be hard to move them unless we make a deal packaging good prospects and eating cap which is going to be a lateral move anyways.
HEAVY DUTY
Thanks to denial, I’m immortal.
hockeyes
Registered User
- Jun 15, 2013
- 5,141
- 3,072
This team is so flawed that it's going to take at least 3 years to put them back on track. It is absolutely disgusting and every fan should boycott this "product". It's pathetic but I've been a Leaf fan for over 20 years now and I see no way out of it.
We have 7 million in a useless captain & #1 defender. He earned his contract and then absolutely couldn't care less. He is garbage, period. Gets challenged at the start of the game? Set a tone? No... lol, let's hide and do nothing while your team gets ass *****.
We have 5.3 million in a useless 4th/5th line plug that is Clarkson for 7 years?? What? No words for this one, just nothing. Oh.. but he took part of a staged fight, WOW, it's almost like we could pay a goon league minimum to take his role. FFS.
We have Randy "no break out" Carlyle.. and we wonder why we get give up so many shots? Are you for real?
We have David "broken legs big contract" Bolland who has done nothing except a few games near the start of the season. Yea, let's NOT resign the guy who can't play 50 games if his life depended on it.
We have Nazeem "no hustle or skating ability but can dive" Kadri who has regressed at about the speed of light and shows no signs of ever returning.
We have Joffery "Mr. Saturday night/aka Rock star" Lupul playing to the cameras, guy pretends he is about to die whenever he is on the bench but it's pretty clear he leaves a LOT on the ice.
Overall, this entire organization is garbage. Absolute. Garbage.
There is no excuse for this performance at this point, if TL gave two ***** about this team he would let go DN, RC and all of the above players. Retain salary, buy out, I don't care. Nobody is going to step up while these plugs get paid all-star money to do NOTHING.
Keep Riely, Gardiner, Kessel, JVR and Bernier and sell the rest for picks and do a proper rebuild. NOBODY else on this roster deserves what they currently have, they deserve to learn the hard way like any other NHL team, not immediately cast into the limelight like heroes after accomplishing nothing.
We have 7 million in a useless captain & #1 defender. He earned his contract and then absolutely couldn't care less. He is garbage, period. Gets challenged at the start of the game? Set a tone? No... lol, let's hide and do nothing while your team gets ass *****.
We have 5.3 million in a useless 4th/5th line plug that is Clarkson for 7 years?? What? No words for this one, just nothing. Oh.. but he took part of a staged fight, WOW, it's almost like we could pay a goon league minimum to take his role. FFS.
We have Randy "no break out" Carlyle.. and we wonder why we get give up so many shots? Are you for real?
We have David "broken legs big contract" Bolland who has done nothing except a few games near the start of the season. Yea, let's NOT resign the guy who can't play 50 games if his life depended on it.
We have Nazeem "no hustle or skating ability but can dive" Kadri who has regressed at about the speed of light and shows no signs of ever returning.
We have Joffery "Mr. Saturday night/aka Rock star" Lupul playing to the cameras, guy pretends he is about to die whenever he is on the bench but it's pretty clear he leaves a LOT on the ice.
Overall, this entire organization is garbage. Absolute. Garbage.
There is no excuse for this performance at this point, if TL gave two ***** about this team he would let go DN, RC and all of the above players. Retain salary, buy out, I don't care. Nobody is going to step up while these plugs get paid all-star money to do NOTHING.
Keep Riely, Gardiner, Kessel, JVR and Bernier and sell the rest for picks and do a proper rebuild. NOBODY else on this roster deserves what they currently have, they deserve to learn the hard way like any other NHL team, not immediately cast into the limelight like heroes after accomplishing nothing.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 80,764
- 57,907
A top to bottom nuking is in order.
Nonis has handed out some terrible contracts that have completely locked the team into this same dysfunctional configuration for 5-7 years. Sorry, fans might have bought the hype on Clarkson, but don't you have pro scouting to look things over? Why was Phaneuf even re-signed like it would be such a shame to lose him?
Scouting needs to be nuked. Dave Morrison and his terrible picks result in our still laughable farm system. Two years ago the Marlies lost to Norfolk for the Calder Cup. Difference is we built a veteran farm team for cheap and fake results while Tampa Bay actually developed useful young NHLers.
Lupul, just take your cherrypicking ways and get the **** out of here, no one cares about your propensity to cheat on defense, score a goal and do that lame raise the roof move.
Reimer, take your weak glove hand, massive five hole and emotions and get the **** out.
Phaneuf, you move around the ice like you have arthritis and you make decisions on the ice like you have a bucket on your head. I'd strip you of the "C", publicly embarrass you and run you out of town Sittler style if I were in charge.
Franson, we're going to arbitration and I'm prepared to offer you a bus ticket out of town. Megabus.
Carlyle, get the **** out and take your toaster with you.
Hey David Clarkson, the Toronto Marlies are actually a little closer to Mimico, so it'll be really convenient for you to play at Ricoh for the next six years.
Orr. Get out.
Nonis has handed out some terrible contracts that have completely locked the team into this same dysfunctional configuration for 5-7 years. Sorry, fans might have bought the hype on Clarkson, but don't you have pro scouting to look things over? Why was Phaneuf even re-signed like it would be such a shame to lose him?
Scouting needs to be nuked. Dave Morrison and his terrible picks result in our still laughable farm system. Two years ago the Marlies lost to Norfolk for the Calder Cup. Difference is we built a veteran farm team for cheap and fake results while Tampa Bay actually developed useful young NHLers.
Lupul, just take your cherrypicking ways and get the **** out of here, no one cares about your propensity to cheat on defense, score a goal and do that lame raise the roof move.
Reimer, take your weak glove hand, massive five hole and emotions and get the **** out.
Phaneuf, you move around the ice like you have arthritis and you make decisions on the ice like you have a bucket on your head. I'd strip you of the "C", publicly embarrass you and run you out of town Sittler style if I were in charge.
Franson, we're going to arbitration and I'm prepared to offer you a bus ticket out of town. Megabus.
Carlyle, get the **** out and take your toaster with you.
Hey David Clarkson, the Toronto Marlies are actually a little closer to Mimico, so it'll be really convenient for you to play at Ricoh for the next six years.
Orr. Get out.
Last edited:
MuchoMacho
Registered User
Dion has to go, end of story.
the man does not have a winning way about him
7m cap, way overpaid
has a game like tonight AND he slips out the back door to hide from the media?
I'm just, well wow.
the man does not have a winning way about him
7m cap, way overpaid
has a game like tonight AND he slips out the back door to hide from the media?
I'm just, well wow.
blueberrie
Registered User
- Mar 23, 2010
- 2,733
- 404
Tearing it all down after the 2011-12 18 wheeler would have been emotional. Tearing it down after the game 7 meltdown would have been emotional but slightly understandable. After a third straight collapse it's time to receive the message. Burke's boys can't handle pressure and will not lead this team anywhere significant.
How much longer are we going to wait for the leadership group to "get it" and bring success to Toronto?
Kessel - 8 year NHL vet - 5th Season with the Leafs
Phaneuf - 10 year NHL vet - 5th Season with the Leafs
Lupul - 11 year NHL vet - 4th Season with the Leafs
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times...?!
TonsofPuppies*
Registered User
Lobstertainment
Oh no, my brains.
2 teams, 2 coaches, 2 18 wheelers. 1 playoff round.
Nonis is Burke without the drama. Can him.
Carlye is Burke's buddy and inept. Fire him out of a cannon.
The team is still young and can be salvaged. Salvage it please.
Nonis is Burke without the drama. Can him.
Carlye is Burke's buddy and inept. Fire him out of a cannon.
The team is still young and can be salvaged. Salvage it please.
I am Canadian
AM34|WN88|MM16
Tak7
Registered User
There just cannot be any way that the coaching staff is allowed to stay on after a season like this. Carlyle and co. HAVE to go.
I have my doubts that they will though - from the Bernier trade, to the Grabo/Mac stuff, it's been pretty damn clear that not only have Nonis and Carlyle worked well together, but Nonis has been building Carlyle's roster for him as best he can.
Why would Nonis let his coach go now, after spending all of his time on the job trying to craft a roster for that man? Plus we all know what happened with the previous regime and the coaching change - once it happens, that shield of fault and accountability no longer remains on the figure head of the coach but shifts back tot he GM.
Why would Nonis invite that sort of pressure? I don't think he will.
The only way I believe Carlyle goes, is if Lieweke basically issues Nonis an ultimatum.
***8 games remain, and try looking at the standings every now and again. The playoffs are gone man, the season is over.
I have my doubts that they will though - from the Bernier trade, to the Grabo/Mac stuff, it's been pretty damn clear that not only have Nonis and Carlyle worked well together, but Nonis has been building Carlyle's roster for him as best he can.
Why would Nonis let his coach go now, after spending all of his time on the job trying to craft a roster for that man? Plus we all know what happened with the previous regime and the coaching change - once it happens, that shield of fault and accountability no longer remains on the figure head of the coach but shifts back tot he GM.
Why would Nonis invite that sort of pressure? I don't think he will.
The only way I believe Carlyle goes, is if Lieweke basically issues Nonis an ultimatum.
***8 games remain, and try looking at the standings every now and again. The playoffs are gone man, the season is over.
Clark4Ever
What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
This talk of blowing up the team is asinine. We have many solid young pieces already in place to build around.
Let's start with replacing our coach so we don't get outshot by a ratio of 2-1 almost every night and go from there...
Let's start with replacing our coach so we don't get outshot by a ratio of 2-1 almost every night and go from there...
Purity*
Registered User
- Jan 29, 2010
- 8,446
- 1
Any move that would positively lead us in the direction of having a consistently competitive team is what we need. I don't care what needs to be done, or if we need to wait 2-4 more years for more pieces to be in place, but I am sick of cheering for this joke team that's been stuck in a never-ending loop of mediocrity.
Marr
Registered User
Tearing it all down after the 2011-12 18 wheeler would have been emotional. Tearing it down after the game 7 meltdown would have been emotional but slightly understandable. After a third straight collapse it's time to receive the message. Burke's boys can't handle pressure and will not lead this team anywhere significant.
How much longer are we going to wait for the leadership group to "get it" and bring success to Toronto?
Kessel - 8 year NHL vet - 5th Season with the Leafs
Phaneuf - 10 year NHL vet - 5th Season with the Leafs
Lupul - 11 year NHL vet - 4th Season with the Leafs
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times...?!
I don't think Kessel sees himself as a leader. A points leader, but not a motivational one. His personality is more "I'll try my best to help" rather than "I'll be the one leading the troops." Phaneuf and Lupul have letters and leadership should be expected from them.
IMO a re-tool upfront and a trade similar to the one that brought us kessel, this time for a defensemen, could position the team to be a perennial contender in 3 years:
year 1: 2014-2015
Subtractions:
phaneuf + clarkson+ 2014 1st +2015 1st + winnipeg 2nd -traded for Edmonton's 2014 1st and yakupov + conditional 2nd in 2016 (if yakupov doesn't play 100 games in toronto before going back to russia or something similar)
riemer + 2014 5th -traded for 2nd from winnipeg
franson- traded for best backup goalie/draft picks package
orr and mclaren- traded to whoever for whatever, bodie, gleason, bolland, winnik, mcclement etc. provide enough grit that we don't need orr or mclaren
raymond- gone as ufa, i'd like to have seen him moved for picks at deadline but since another cheap 1 year contract is unlikely he's probably gone
Additions:
Ekblad (Draft: Edmonton)
yakupov (trade)
winnik (ufa)
robidas (ufa)
cheap backup goalie,( hopefully a relatively young guy with a little bit of upside, bunch available)
Draft: Ekblad if he is still available, otherwise the best guy still on the board. IMO a d core of ekblad(R), rielly(L), gardiner (L) with Percy(L), Granberg (R), Gunnarsson(L) among others could be one of best in the league in 3 years time and well into the foreseeable future. getting rid of 2 first rounders and phaneuf is risky, but it takes something to get something and ekblad's about as solid a D prospect as they come and fits our core perfectly.
If Ekblad is not available then drafting the best player and eventually trading him for a right handed shot blue chip D such as Trouba could be an option.
kessel - bozak - jvr
kulemin- kadri- yakupov (sheltered abit)
winnik- bolland- holland/d'amigo/ashton (Shutdown line)
bodie- mcclement- holland/d'amigo/ashton (Pk help)
gunnarsson - robidas (Against Top Lines + pk1)
gardiner-granberg/ekblad/percy/ranger (probably not going to be pretty, but could prove effective if sheltered somewhat)
gleason- rielly (play with our top line. rielly has speed to join rush and keep up with kessel and jvr, with any luck he will continue to improve defensively, most agree the tools are there)
bernier
xxxx
Notes:
-robidas is old but reliable, will want short contract so risk is minimal, placeholder for ekblad
-gardiner or rielly always on the ice with 4th line to serve as the offensive catalyst, especially when matched up against other 4th lines.
-more pp time for JG + MR
-D will most likely falter from losing phaneuf but development should improve, especially when Phaneuf isn't the role model for our young d. gardiner's and rielly's statures and skill sest are best utilized when they are moving their feet, Phaneuf leads by doing the exact opposite of that so limiting their exposure to him could help.
-probably not a playoff team, no draft picks in first 2 rounds the next year so might as well play to win.
year 2: 2015-2016
subtractions: gleason (maybe),
additions: nothing major...hopefully
2015 draft: No Pick in 1st round, possibly a good time to take a goalie in the 2nd round, should have worked through system by the time bernier's prime years are over.
Kessel - bozak - jvr
kulemin- kadri- yakupov
winnik- bolland- holland/d'amigo/ashton
bodie- mcclement- holland/d'amigo/ashton
rielly/gardiner - robidas
gardiner/rielly-granberg/percy/ekblad
gunnarsson- percy/granberg/ekblad
percy/granberg/ekblad
bernier
xxxx
notes
-another year of devlopment, top line all in their prime and 2nd line hopefully rounding into form, if yakupov or kulemin doesn't workout then either a FA winger or give guys like holland or leivo a shot at it.
-one of gardiner or rielly should be capable of playing on the top pair by this time and gleason is now expandable, he can be dealt or kept around for depth/leadership
-should be able to compete for a playoff spot down the stretch
year 3: 2016-2017
Additions: biggs, leivo
Subtractions: Robidas
2016 Draft: high end forward talent. trading pick/s for a young and proven winger for Kardi's line or to trade up and draft franchise center
Kessel - bozak - jvr
kulemin/leivo- kadri- yakupov
winnik- bolland- holland/d'amigo/ashton
bodie/biggs- mcclement- holland/d'amigo/ashton
rielly/gardiner - ekblad/granberg/percy
gardiner/rielly-granberg/ekblad/percy
gunnarsson- percy/granberg/ekblad
xxxxx
bernier
xxxx
notes
- guys like biggs, leivo and gauthier will start to replace guys in the bottom 6 and possibly the 2nd line as the next few years progress because guys like bolland, mclement, kulemin and winnik are approaching the end of their primes.
- a young playoff team thats built from the net out, versatile and mobile d corps without sacrificing top notch forward talent
Sorry about the novel
year 1: 2014-2015
Subtractions:
phaneuf + clarkson+ 2014 1st +2015 1st + winnipeg 2nd -traded for Edmonton's 2014 1st and yakupov + conditional 2nd in 2016 (if yakupov doesn't play 100 games in toronto before going back to russia or something similar)
riemer + 2014 5th -traded for 2nd from winnipeg
franson- traded for best backup goalie/draft picks package
orr and mclaren- traded to whoever for whatever, bodie, gleason, bolland, winnik, mcclement etc. provide enough grit that we don't need orr or mclaren
raymond- gone as ufa, i'd like to have seen him moved for picks at deadline but since another cheap 1 year contract is unlikely he's probably gone
Additions:
Ekblad (Draft: Edmonton)
yakupov (trade)
winnik (ufa)
robidas (ufa)
cheap backup goalie,( hopefully a relatively young guy with a little bit of upside, bunch available)
Draft: Ekblad if he is still available, otherwise the best guy still on the board. IMO a d core of ekblad(R), rielly(L), gardiner (L) with Percy(L), Granberg (R), Gunnarsson(L) among others could be one of best in the league in 3 years time and well into the foreseeable future. getting rid of 2 first rounders and phaneuf is risky, but it takes something to get something and ekblad's about as solid a D prospect as they come and fits our core perfectly.
If Ekblad is not available then drafting the best player and eventually trading him for a right handed shot blue chip D such as Trouba could be an option.
kessel - bozak - jvr
kulemin- kadri- yakupov (sheltered abit)
winnik- bolland- holland/d'amigo/ashton (Shutdown line)
bodie- mcclement- holland/d'amigo/ashton (Pk help)
gunnarsson - robidas (Against Top Lines + pk1)
gardiner-granberg/ekblad/percy/ranger (probably not going to be pretty, but could prove effective if sheltered somewhat)
gleason- rielly (play with our top line. rielly has speed to join rush and keep up with kessel and jvr, with any luck he will continue to improve defensively, most agree the tools are there)
bernier
xxxx
Notes:
-robidas is old but reliable, will want short contract so risk is minimal, placeholder for ekblad
-gardiner or rielly always on the ice with 4th line to serve as the offensive catalyst, especially when matched up against other 4th lines.
-more pp time for JG + MR
-D will most likely falter from losing phaneuf but development should improve, especially when Phaneuf isn't the role model for our young d. gardiner's and rielly's statures and skill sest are best utilized when they are moving their feet, Phaneuf leads by doing the exact opposite of that so limiting their exposure to him could help.
-probably not a playoff team, no draft picks in first 2 rounds the next year so might as well play to win.
year 2: 2015-2016
subtractions: gleason (maybe),
additions: nothing major...hopefully
2015 draft: No Pick in 1st round, possibly a good time to take a goalie in the 2nd round, should have worked through system by the time bernier's prime years are over.
Kessel - bozak - jvr
kulemin- kadri- yakupov
winnik- bolland- holland/d'amigo/ashton
bodie- mcclement- holland/d'amigo/ashton
rielly/gardiner - robidas
gardiner/rielly-granberg/percy/ekblad
gunnarsson- percy/granberg/ekblad
percy/granberg/ekblad
bernier
xxxx
notes
-another year of devlopment, top line all in their prime and 2nd line hopefully rounding into form, if yakupov or kulemin doesn't workout then either a FA winger or give guys like holland or leivo a shot at it.
-one of gardiner or rielly should be capable of playing on the top pair by this time and gleason is now expandable, he can be dealt or kept around for depth/leadership
-should be able to compete for a playoff spot down the stretch
year 3: 2016-2017
Additions: biggs, leivo
Subtractions: Robidas
2016 Draft: high end forward talent. trading pick/s for a young and proven winger for Kardi's line or to trade up and draft franchise center
Kessel - bozak - jvr
kulemin/leivo- kadri- yakupov
winnik- bolland- holland/d'amigo/ashton
bodie/biggs- mcclement- holland/d'amigo/ashton
rielly/gardiner - ekblad/granberg/percy
gardiner/rielly-granberg/ekblad/percy
gunnarsson- percy/granberg/ekblad
xxxxx
bernier
xxxx
notes
- guys like biggs, leivo and gauthier will start to replace guys in the bottom 6 and possibly the 2nd line as the next few years progress because guys like bolland, mclement, kulemin and winnik are approaching the end of their primes.
- a young playoff team thats built from the net out, versatile and mobile d corps without sacrificing top notch forward talent
Sorry about the novel
HardCOR Talk... #1?? "A Big Rant"
(Think of this as a Daisy Joy "Loose Leafs" type post, but a lot lest structured)
You know, it's hard not to be romantic about sports. some people always laugh when I refer to the Leafs as "we" but I always do, and I have no idea why, maybe because I, and many here love this team so much, that we can't help it. We can't help but feel like we are just as part of the team as Dave Nonis, or Randy Carlyle, or Phil Kessel, because as they say, its the passion that unites us all.
Last year, that series vs Boston was one of the best things, in my life, and some may say "LOL what!" but it's true. As a 20 year old, that was the first playoffs that I can remember end to end. The two thoughts I remember clearly of me watching was Jeremy Roenick score on Eddie Belfour the last time (before last year of course) we were in the playoffs, and the second one was Joe Neiwendyk's two goal game vs the Sens, and the classic "He Did It Again" call by Joe Bowen. Everything else I remember from watching clips on LeafsTV, or YouTube.
How sad is that?
For 9 years, 8 seasons, we suffered, not making the playoffs a single time. We watched this team drop to the pit of despair. Watching Mats Sundin leave, and go to the Canucks, and retire. Watching our goaltending going from The Cat, to CuJo, to the Eagle, to Razor, Toskala and the Monster. A hard fall from grace.
We watched our top line go from Mats Sundin, Alex Mogilny and Darcy Tucker to Joey Crabb, Matt Stajan and Phil Kessel.
Speaking of Phil Kessel, when he first arrived, he was a ray of sunshine, covered with some clouds and thunder. This was a player that could be the next great Leaf. He was destined to be a player that could score at will, but what was the price? Two first round picks, along with a second round pick.... was it the right move for the organization? Flash forward to current time, and Phil Kessel is what we thought, an offensive dynamo, and has even improved his defensive game. Tyler Seguin, Dougie Hamilton are doing well, well is an understatement for the former though. Jared Knight has never been heard from though.
Back on topic. So what are you talking about Cor?
I don't know really. Maybe I am venting. This very well could be a post that will be deleted by mods. Maybe it's not relevant, although I feel like I am not the only one who will be going through an acceptance period.
In 10 years, we have seen 1 playoff series, which was capped off with a collapse for the ages. Now, we are on pace for another collapse, which brings us out of the playoffs completely, and it will be the second time in three seasons we do something like this. On top of that playoff collapse we all remember.
So I guess what is bothering me, is that when you look at what the playoffs were like last season, forgetting the collapse, the atmosphere, the hockey, it was brilliant.
Fast forward to March 1st let's say. This fan base was preparing for another playoff appearance, sitting 2nd in the division, due course for home ice advantage, something we haven't had in how long, and another step forward.
A couple weeks later, we have an opportunity to go out West, and really show how good we are, and separate ourselves from Montreal, Tampa Bay, Detroit and so on. We won 2 of 3 out west, good start.... then it happened. At a pivotal time in the season, we lost 6 straight. 7 of the last 8. In the most pivotal time of the season. We now sit in 10th. And we are dropping.
So I guess that is what bugs me. We had several chances to separate ourselves.
Instead this team showed 0 heart, 0 grit, 0 determination, and to quote Hurt from the pre-game talk thread 0 self-respect, as a team with self-respect wouldn't allow themselves to lose 6 in a row at such a pivotal time. This goes from James Reimer, to David Clarkson, to Dion Phaneuf, to Morgan Rielly, to Phil Kessel, to Jake Gardiner. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.
So, I think it's time to look forward to next season, high chance we have a new coach, small chance we could have a new GM, and chances are there are going to be chances. BIG. CHANGES. Bob McKenzie, who doesn't usually talk about the Leafs, said recently that should the Leafs miss the playoffs, Nazem Kadri, and Jake Gardiner, will likely be on their way out, and that would be the beginning. There were rumors last off-season, although faint, that Dion Phaneuf could be available. Could that be revisited this off-season? He was never Nonis' nor Carlyle's "guy". Although I don't think he is the issue, it would signal a major turn over.
Overall, my heart is broken, I love this team, and you always hate to see something you love fall to the pits. At the very least, let us hope this signals change, and change for the better.
(Think of this as a Daisy Joy "Loose Leafs" type post, but a lot lest structured)
You know, it's hard not to be romantic about sports. some people always laugh when I refer to the Leafs as "we" but I always do, and I have no idea why, maybe because I, and many here love this team so much, that we can't help it. We can't help but feel like we are just as part of the team as Dave Nonis, or Randy Carlyle, or Phil Kessel, because as they say, its the passion that unites us all.
Last year, that series vs Boston was one of the best things, in my life, and some may say "LOL what!" but it's true. As a 20 year old, that was the first playoffs that I can remember end to end. The two thoughts I remember clearly of me watching was Jeremy Roenick score on Eddie Belfour the last time (before last year of course) we were in the playoffs, and the second one was Joe Neiwendyk's two goal game vs the Sens, and the classic "He Did It Again" call by Joe Bowen. Everything else I remember from watching clips on LeafsTV, or YouTube.
How sad is that?
For 9 years, 8 seasons, we suffered, not making the playoffs a single time. We watched this team drop to the pit of despair. Watching Mats Sundin leave, and go to the Canucks, and retire. Watching our goaltending going from The Cat, to CuJo, to the Eagle, to Razor, Toskala and the Monster. A hard fall from grace.
We watched our top line go from Mats Sundin, Alex Mogilny and Darcy Tucker to Joey Crabb, Matt Stajan and Phil Kessel.
Speaking of Phil Kessel, when he first arrived, he was a ray of sunshine, covered with some clouds and thunder. This was a player that could be the next great Leaf. He was destined to be a player that could score at will, but what was the price? Two first round picks, along with a second round pick.... was it the right move for the organization? Flash forward to current time, and Phil Kessel is what we thought, an offensive dynamo, and has even improved his defensive game. Tyler Seguin, Dougie Hamilton are doing well, well is an understatement for the former though. Jared Knight has never been heard from though.
Back on topic. So what are you talking about Cor?
I don't know really. Maybe I am venting. This very well could be a post that will be deleted by mods. Maybe it's not relevant, although I feel like I am not the only one who will be going through an acceptance period.
In 10 years, we have seen 1 playoff series, which was capped off with a collapse for the ages. Now, we are on pace for another collapse, which brings us out of the playoffs completely, and it will be the second time in three seasons we do something like this. On top of that playoff collapse we all remember.
So I guess what is bothering me, is that when you look at what the playoffs were like last season, forgetting the collapse, the atmosphere, the hockey, it was brilliant.
Fast forward to March 1st let's say. This fan base was preparing for another playoff appearance, sitting 2nd in the division, due course for home ice advantage, something we haven't had in how long, and another step forward.
A couple weeks later, we have an opportunity to go out West, and really show how good we are, and separate ourselves from Montreal, Tampa Bay, Detroit and so on. We won 2 of 3 out west, good start.... then it happened. At a pivotal time in the season, we lost 6 straight. 7 of the last 8. In the most pivotal time of the season. We now sit in 10th. And we are dropping.
So I guess that is what bugs me. We had several chances to separate ourselves.
Instead this team showed 0 heart, 0 grit, 0 determination, and to quote Hurt from the pre-game talk thread 0 self-respect, as a team with self-respect wouldn't allow themselves to lose 6 in a row at such a pivotal time. This goes from James Reimer, to David Clarkson, to Dion Phaneuf, to Morgan Rielly, to Phil Kessel, to Jake Gardiner. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.
So, I think it's time to look forward to next season, high chance we have a new coach, small chance we could have a new GM, and chances are there are going to be chances. BIG. CHANGES. Bob McKenzie, who doesn't usually talk about the Leafs, said recently that should the Leafs miss the playoffs, Nazem Kadri, and Jake Gardiner, will likely be on their way out, and that would be the beginning. There were rumors last off-season, although faint, that Dion Phaneuf could be available. Could that be revisited this off-season? He was never Nonis' nor Carlyle's "guy". Although I don't think he is the issue, it would signal a major turn over.
Overall, my heart is broken, I love this team, and you always hate to see something you love fall to the pits. At the very least, let us hope this signals change, and change for the better.
blueberrie
Registered User
- Mar 23, 2010
- 2,733
- 404
I'd agree with you on that, but I also think that's part of the problem.
Kessel was acquired to be that franchise forward, be that guy. And Burke payed a steep price for him as well. It signified a "win now" mentality with Kessel leading the way.
Whether Kessel likes it or not he's a leader on this team. The highest paid player, second longest serving player, prime PP and ES TOI and the leading scorer. Younger guys look to him since he's essentially the vet in the room.
Kessel scores points, lots of them. One of the best in the league at doing that actually. But he contributes almost nothing in every other area of the ice. Two way play, physical intimidation, willingness to go to the dirty areas, leadership skills are NOT part of his game at all and that rubs off on others. IIRC he was even approached before about wearing a letter but declined. Your best player doesn't want to lead the way. It's a conflicting message.
He could be a integral part of a cup winning team like Kane is. But he needs and wants to be that 2nd or 3rd gun, not the go to guy. Not answering the tough questions, not having to put your blood and sweat into grinding down the other team's best, not busting your ass just to backcheck on time or take a hit in the corner to get the puck out, just going out there and scoring points.
My question is can we afford to hang on to Kessel while we try and put together a core around him where he's the 2nd or 3rd gun? Will he still be putting up his 35 goals by the time we get a good enough 1st line to insulate him defensively and competition wise?
He wants to be a passenger while we want him to be a driver. Who is the driver of our forward corp anyway? It's tough to say, we're 6 years into a rebuild and it's hard to identify who our absolute untouchables are. It's crazy. Burke's rebuild has just been a complete failure.
Lol @ slips out the backdoor. Some of you whiners just love to speculate and pass it off as fact. Fact is he is not way overpaid, 7 m is fair value. And incase you haven't noticed, the Leafs haven't had a winning way about them for 7 games straight now. But of course that's all on one or two players right? Never change Bipolar Nation, never change.
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