When will Bouchard be considered elite?

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Some might say Bouchard isn't generational at both ends of the ice. That is a fair point.

One can acknowledge that Bouchard is a step back of Orr or Bourque while at the same time acknowledging that Bouchard controls the entire sheet of ice better than any defender currently playing.

And that quite frankly the Oilers would be golfing if they didn't have an elite 3 zone defender. The two tigers of the west with 1 zone elite defenders are golfing though.

 

[GOilers88]

Hyman put up 50 with Mcdavid. That's an example of someones stats being elevated.

Hyman wouldn't put up 50 in Arizona. Of course we will never know for sure, but we could still use logic in this subjective argument.

Even Hyman in Colorado wouldn't put up 50. Again we wouldn't know for sure, but I'd still bet my house and rest easy at night.

Bouchard 100 percent would be worse on Arizona than Makar or Josi would. It's obvious to most people. I don't know why you have to pump him up so much.

Makar would take a hit if he went from MacK and Colorado to Arizona and...Arizona.

You can do this exercise with virtually every single player in the league. Take away any star teammates and playoff teams they play on and put them on a bottom feeder and they all take a big hit.

I don't understand what point is trying to be made here? If the bar for elite or superstar is to put up superstar points without any stud teammates, then the only star player in the league is Kirill Kaprizov last year.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

In this thread Bouchard is a black hole defensively and not elite. In any thread regarding Bouchard's next contract; the vultures come out and say shit like "the Oilers won't be able to afford him" and then state how their team would be able to fit his contract in

“Bouchard sucks and in conclusion he’s going to get 10 million in his next deal”

 

[zaYG]

Guys a bum clearly, you should trade him to Boston for the rights to hometown boy Debrusk.

 

[Donner]

"For me"? If we look at his four games vs Stars:

He was actually #1 overall on the team in three of the four games. And while one game he had obviously negative defensive impact, in the other three he's been #1 #1 #2(barely behind his defensive partner) defensively.

The haters will skip right over this post and the actual numbers

A narrative of being a bad defensive player must be maintained at all times

 

[Despote]

In all honesty Bouchard has been the Oilers best player in these playoffs. I don't expect him to win the Smythe if Edmonton makes it that far, but he has been the guy.

 

[SavoieSeason]

he has a playoff stat line Matthews could only dream of

 

[paulmm3]

"For me"? If we look at his four games vs Stars:

He was actually #1 overall on the team in three of the four games. And while one game he had obviously negative defensive impact, in the other three he's been #1 #1 #2(barely behind his defensive partner) defensively.

Stats are for losers homie. I've watched the guy play plenty of games I feel good commenting on my viewings of his subpar defense.

 

[Rowlet]

“Bouchard sucks and in conclusion he’s going to get 10 million in his next deal”

Nurse sucks and he got 9.25x8

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

I'm guessing sometime between the 5 fabulous weeks of The Chevy Chase Show and The butthole cut of Cats.

 

[TheUnusedCrayon]

Bouchard was the best defenseman offensively and defensively in game 4. His two-way game is elite.

You have to be willingly ignorant to say he was the best defensively in game 4.

Plays like this weren't one-offs. They happened multiple times last night. He makes a good play initially to separate from puck but then shuts the controller off once he felt his job was done. At no point does he try to readjust to position himself in between his player and the net and then once his man escapes with the puck (because he shut his controller off) he doesn't even try more than a 25% effort to prevent a high danger shot on net from the slot.

And people say this guy is elite defensively?! This happens all of the time with him.

Phenomenal offensively, subpar defense because he disengages so damn often from the defensive side of the game.

 

[phrenssoa]

Bouchard’s greatest asset is his awareness on the ice. Sure he’s not the most gifted skater, the flashiest stick handler or the most physically engaged player, but he makes up for it in spades with his hockey IQ.

I have honestly never seen a defenceman with his level of anticipation. He always knows exactly when to pinch, where to go with the puck, and how to get pucks through traffic.

 

[Donner]

You have to be willingly ignorant to say he was the best defensively in game 4.

Plays like this weren't one-offs. They happened multiple times last night. He makes a good play initially to separate from puck but then shuts the controller off once he felt his job was done. At no point does he try to readjust to position himself in between his player and the net and then once his man escapes with the puck (because he shut his controller off) he doesn't even try more than a 25% effort to prevent a high danger shot on net from the slot.

And people say this guy is elite defensively?! This happens all of the time with him.

Phenomenal offensively, subpar defense because he disengages so damn often from the defensive side of the game.
View attachment 877514

You have to be willingly ignorant to say he was the best defensively in game 4.

Plays like this weren't one-offs. They happened multiple times last night. He makes a good play initially to separate from puck but then shuts the controller off once he felt his job was done. At no point does he try to readjust to position himself in between his player and the net and then once his man escapes with the puck (because he shut his controller off) he doesn't even try more than a 25% effort to prevent a high danger shot on net from the slot.

And people say this guy is elite defensively?! This happens all of the time with him.

Phenomenal offensively, subpar defense because he disengages so damn often from the defensive side of the game.
View attachment 877514

Noone has ever, ever said he is elite defensively. If you can ever find any statement of this I will eat my words.

Bouchard makes many good underrated defensive plays that are not going to show up in a highlight reel, but does makes a few bad decisions that will. So hell get painted with a brush that hes bad defensively, despite every defensive metric to the contrary. He is actually above average defensively by any defensive metric you look at

As another quick example. Head to heard shot tables for the first 4 games. Bouchard looking particulary good.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

You have to be willingly ignorant to say he was the best defensively in game 4.

Plays like this weren't one-offs. They happened multiple times last night. He makes a good play initially to separate from puck but then shuts the controller off once he felt his job was done. At no point does he try to readjust to position himself in between his player and the net and then once his man escapes with the puck (because he shut his controller off) he doesn't even try more than a 25% effort to prevent a high danger shot on net from the slot.

And people say this guy is elite defensively?! This happens all of the time with him.

Phenomenal offensively, subpar defense because he disengages so damn often from the defensive side of the game.
View attachment 877514

Nurse shifted over to contest Stankhoven and Bouchard made sure to cover Robertson. This is how it should be played in a zone defense. If Bouchard goes out of position to take Stankhoven, Robertson has a completely uncontested lane to the net - incidentally in a spot where he scored the game winning goal 2 nights prior.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Makar would take a hit if he went from MacK and Colorado to Arizona and...Arizona.

You can do this exercise with virtually every single player in the league. Take away any star teammates and playoff teams they play on and put them on a bottom feeder and they all take a big hit.

I don't understand what point is trying to be made here? If the bar for elite or superstar is to put up superstar points without any stud teammates, then the only star player in the league is Kirill Kaprizov last year.

Of course Makar would take a hit, but not as much as Bouchard.

The point I'm trying to make is that Bouchard is not on Makar's level

That said Bouchard as had some stellar games this playoffs.

 

[snag]

Bouchard’s greatest asset is his awareness on the ice. Sure he’s not the most gifted skater, the flashiest stick handler or the most physically engaged player, but he makes up for it in spades with his hockey IQ.

I have honestly never seen a defenceman with his level of anticipation. He always knows exactly when to pinch, where to go with the puck, and how to get pucks through traffic.

Now if he could only get rid of those ass clencher passes he makes in his own zone. I swear I tighten up at least once a game.

 

[Sol]

I think Bouchards lazy eye gives him a distinct advantage since he sees two sides of the ice at once.

 

[super6646]

His shot really seems to remind me of Al Macinnis’. Man can just fire them from the point all day and get it on net. Very hard and accurate. It’s actually beautiful to watch given how few dmen nowadays use the slap shot.

If he can improve his play defensively (like Macinnis did later in his career), he will be a future norris candidate.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Bouchard is 6'3 and 200 pounds but plays like he's 5'9 170 out there.

This is an extremely bad take, made up and nonsensical tbh.
He uses his body alot to recover pucks and pinch. He wins 90% of those battles and they happen dozens of times a game
Especially on the pinches when the winger is tryin to get thru him. You see him win those battles upto a dozen times per game

 

[TheUnusedCrayon]

Noone has ever, ever said he is elite defensively. If you can ever find any statement of this I will eat my words.

Bouchard makes many good underrated defensive plays that are not going to show up in a highlight reel, but does makes a few bad decisions that will. So hell get painted with a brush that hes bad defensively, despite every defensive metric to the contrary. He is actually above average defensively by any defensive metric you look at

As another quick example. Head to heard shot tables for the first 4 games. Bouchard looking particulary good.
View attachment 877532

If my multi quote would work you can see just 1 page ago somebody calling him elite defensively. Edit: scroll one post past this one and my multi quote I figured out lol

Nurse shifted over to contest Stankhoven and Bouchard made sure to cover Robertson. This is how it should be played in a zone defense. If Bouchard goes out of position to take Stankhoven, Robertson has a completely uncontested lane to the net - incidentally in a spot where he scored the game winning goal 2 nights prior.

No. The way it should go is after contact, Bouchard should jockey to pin Stankoven so that he doesn't get a free lane to the net to negate the whole play in the first place. Instead he opts to allow his man to establish position and then force his teammate to cover for his laziness.

Edit: autocorrect error fixed

 

[TheUnusedCrayon]

Generational offence. Elite defence. That means he’s a 2 way threat.

Noone has ever, ever said he is elite defensively. If you can ever find any statement of this I will eat my words.

Bouchard makes many good underrated defensive plays that are not going to show up in a highlight reel, but does makes a few bad decisions that will. So hell get painted with a brush that hes bad defensively, despite every defensive metric to the contrary. He is actually above average defensively by any defensive metric you look at

As another quick example. Head to heard shot tables for the first 4 games. Bouchard looking particulary good.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Nurse shifted over to contest Stankhoven and Bouchard made sure to cover Robertson. This is how it should be played in a zone defense. If Bouchard goes out of position to take Stankhoven, Robertson has a completely uncontested lane to the net - incidentally in a spot where he scored the game winning goal 2 nights prior.

Yup.

Gotta love when someone does a play breakdown and gets it completely wrong

 

[TheNumber4]

Bouchard’s greatest asset is his awareness on the ice. Sure he’s not the most gifted skater, the flashiest stick handler or the most physically engaged player, but he makes up for it in spades with his hockey IQ.

I have honestly never seen a defenceman with his level of anticipation. He always knows exactly when to pinch, where to go with the puck, and how to get pucks through traffic.

As all GREAT players. Their greatness usually does stem from Hockey IQ moreso than any individual physical attribute or skill attribute.

You are right, his game is driven by IQ, anticipation, and reads of the game. Add elite shooting (best in the NHL from the blue line), good stick handling, good skating, good defensive stick, and it all adds up to Elite+ player.

 

[TheUnusedCrayon]

Yup.

Gotta love when someone does a play breakdown and gets it completely wrong

If you're referencing me that's hilarious considering Bouch is the rd so his zone is Stankoven's position anyways. If you wanna quote zone defense then he's out of position, if you wanna quote man on man then clearly it was his man also.

Either way, it's poor defense and as a result a high danger chance was generated.

 

[On The Prowl]

You have to be willingly ignorant to say he was the best defensively in game 4.

Plays like this weren't one-offs. They happened multiple times last night. He makes a good play initially to separate from puck but then shuts the controller off once he felt his job was done. At no point does he try to readjust to position himself in between his player and the net and then once his man escapes with the puck (because he shut his controller off) he doesn't even try more than a 25% effort to prevent a high danger shot on net from the slot.

And people say this guy is elite defensively?! This happens all of the time with him.

Phenomenal offensively, subpar defense because he disengages so damn often from the defensive side of the game.
View attachment 877514

He still has things to learn in his own end, but the transformation he has gone through since his rookie year in the D-Zone creates some belief that once he gets a little more experience along with getting stronger he could become a monster, as long as he puts the work in anyways.