When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[norrisnick]

Exactly this. This echoes what I said on the first page. He started with almost nothing. Ofc it's gonna take a while.

That said, this is the first time I see myself questioning his draft and free agency, but even then, I don't want to judge until I see the result of his decisions. He still has the benefit of the doubt and I see no reason for us fans to think we know better until his moves prove to be bad. His only real actual mistake right now is Chiarot imo. Smaller mistakes would be Zadina's contract and Nedeljkovic's trade, and maybe Perlini but all these were buy-low and hope kind of moves, so I won't fault him for these since he has hit on a few of those already.

I get the feeling that Yzerman has put the rebuild in neutral this year. Whether intentionally or unintentionally due to what is available, this year just feels like plugging holes and treading water. Underwhelming.

That and the draft felt like they put a list together and never bothered to run a "sanity check" against one of the numerous publications out there. A handful of picks felt completely removed from consensus.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Hey remember when the Wings limped out of the playoffs in the first round with barely a whimper for five years in a row or whatever

And full circle that’s basically exactly what they’re trending towards for the late 2020s. They have no elite forwards, are done tanking to try and get any and so they’ll need to get very lucky. The Detroit Mid Wings are back in business.

 

[Bank Shot]

It's year 6 of Ken Holland's tenure

Where's your Cup

(Hint: you're not gonna get it)

This thread is about Yzerman. Go cry about Holland somewhere else.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

And full circle that’s basically exactly what they’re trending towards for the late 2020s. They have no elite forwards, are done tanking to try and get any and so they’ll need to get very lucky. The Detroit Mid Wings are back in business.

You guys keep acting like 100-point scorers just fall out of the sky and Yzerman has been holding his bucket upside down the whole time.

The Wings will not draw a Rantanen-caliber player through FA and they cannot trade for one without giving up at least one established asset which is something they can't afford right now. That's why this has to be done through the draft and that's why getting f***ed in the lottery is the worst thing that could've happened to us.

I also don't know how much clearer I can make "Holland go down, Yzerman go up" at this point.

 

[WarriorofTime]

You guys keep acting like 100-point scorers just fall out of the sky and Yzerman has been holding his bucket upside down the whole time.

The Wings will not draw a Rantanen-caliber player through FA and they cannot trade for one without giving up at least one established asset which is something they can't afford right now. That's why this has to be done through the draft and that's why getting f***ed in the lottery is the worst thing that could've happened to us.

Not sure what you're hoping for, a pat on the back and "it's ok Stevie, it wasn't your fault"? His personal success doesn't interest me, he didn't have to leave Tampa Bay if he wanted all the glory. He took a chance coming back to Detroit and maybe thinking he had a magic touch to make it all happen. I don't really care about if it's Yzerman's fault or the ping pong balls fault, the Wings aren't in a great spot right now and Yzerman is in charge so he's gotta figure it out. If signing JT Compher for 5 years is his way of figuring it out, then godspeed.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

As someone who hasn't liked his summer, it's hard to criticize the guy until the moves he's made have the chance to fail or succeed.

I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Not sure what you're hoping for, a pat on the back and "it's ok Stevie, it wasn't your fault"? His personal success doesn't interest me, he didn't have to leave Tampa Bay if he wanted all the glory. He took a chance coming back to Detroit and maybe thinking he had a magic touch to make it all happen. I don't really care about if it's Yzerman's fault or the ping pong balls fault, the Wings aren't in a great spot right now and Yzerman is in charge so he's gotta figure it out. If signing JT Compher for 5 years is his way of figuring it out, then godspeed.

Except no other GM could've moved the needle any further than he did because they'd all be exactly as handicapped as him.

 

[TKB]

Not sure what you're hoping for, a pat on the back and "it's ok Stevie, it wasn't your fault"? His personal success doesn't interest me, he didn't have to leave Tampa Bay if he wanted all the glory. He took a chance coming back to Detroit and maybe thinking he had a magic touch to make it all happen. I don't really care about if it's Yzerman's fault or the ping pong balls fault, the Wings aren't in a great spot right now and Yzerman is in charge so he's gotta figure it out. If signing JT Compher for 5 years is his way of figuring it out, then godspeed.

No sigining JT Compher to 5 years is not his way of figuring it out, but thanks for confirming once again that you don't understand what he is doing despite how often you like to talk about it, and have been told repeatedly.

 

[Hisch13r]

The D looks like it’ll be great. The forward group is incredibly uninspiring

 

[Ezekial]

No sigining JT Compher to 5 years is not his way of figuring it out, but thanks for confirming once again that you don't understand what he is doing despite how often you like to talk about it, and have been told repeatedly.

Hey, at least he gets to use that super creative Detroit Mid Wings moniker over and over.

 

[um]

You can blame the draft lottery luck but I would also point out where Vasi, Point and Kucherov were drafted. Maybe he just got lucky in Tampa.

wouldn't credit go to the Scouts in Tampa?

 

[UrbanImpact]

Yzerman is over-rated. I think many Detroit fans are starting to question the Kool-Aid.

I'm even more confident and excited for the Canucks now that Yzerman decided to move on and not pay Hronek.

 

[Chainshot]

From a team-building standpoint, not getting the higher-end lottery luck certainly stings. Listening to his end-of-season press conference where he referenced other teams in the division being ahead of DRW in the prospect/young player portion of their builds was interesting - IIRC, it was a question about the Sens and Sabres specifically - and that he's still trying to put more prospect talent into their pipeline. I liked the Wings draft as they took six different guys who I have seen and like most of where they took them (I do think Cleveland might have been high, but for what he does, I get using their fifth selection to roll the dice and also make sure they get their guy). He's put 28 guys into their system in 3 drafts, they're going for quantity since the ping-pong balls are not giving them quality.

In the meantime though, I am curious how he's going to generate the forward talent to take the next push forward. Most of his divisional rivals have younger scorers who have hit already, so it seems someone like Raymond or Berggren need to make that jump into top line forward production to give them a boost. I wonder at the possibility of a 2-way center spine of Larkin, Kasper, and Danielson and think of a team that is going to be smothering.

In terms of identity, from an outside perspective, it looks like he's trying to make sure his blueline is very solid and will have waves of workmanlike depth players in place while he tries to rustle up or polish up the scoring talent. Having started without a Stamkos or Hedman type, he's done pretty well from where I sit but will the Wings continue to push forward or will they find themselves still a bit short in scoring talent in the near-term. I'm curious to see how it plays out.

 

[Ole Gil]

wouldn't credit go to the Scouts in Tampa?

Sure looks like it. Could've used those guys to tell him Nedjelkovic wasn't the goalie of the future.

 

[tfwnogf]

thought he lost his marbles when he traded for Yamamoto...then he bought him out so Stevie Y is still cool with me.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

You guys keep acting like 100-point scorers just fall out of the sky and Yzerman has been holding his bucket upside down the whole time.

The Wings will not draw a Rantanen-caliber player through FA and they cannot trade for one without giving up at least one established asset which is something they can't afford right now. That's why this has to be done through the draft and that's why getting f***ed in the lottery is the worst thing that could've happened to us.

I also don't know how much clearer I can make "Holland go down, Yzerman go up" at this point.

I think there's some denial there. Signing guys like Gostisbehere, Compher etc. doesn't win you a Cup or even a division, but it might make your team competent enough to not be in the basement group. If you know you need to build through the draft then aiming for middling competence like that worsens your picks, doesn't win you anything that would drive interest, doesn't help the long-term future of the team.

There's only two rational explanations for it:

- The team thinks all the main building blocks are already in the organization (seems unlikely but not impossible).
- There's pressure from the business side to look 'alive' in order to drive season ticket sales, media interest etc. and the hockey ops guys rationalize it as saying they're good enough at scouting and development to build even with mid-round picks (based on what evidence?).

 

[SimpleJack]

Yeah not sure what the Wings are doing tbh.

I think there's some denial there. Signing guys like Gostisbehere, Compher etc. doesn't win you a Cup or even a division, but it might make your team competent enough to not be in the basement group. If you know you need to build through the draft then aiming for middling competence like that worsens your picks, doesn't win you anything that would drive interest, doesn't help the long-term future of the team.

There's only two rational explanations for it:

- The team thinks all the main building blocks are already in the organization (seems unlikely but not impossible).
- There's pressure from the business side to look 'alive' in order to drive season ticket sales, media interest etc. and the hockey ops guys rationalize it as saying they're good enough at scouting and development to build even with mid-round picks (based on what evidence?).

This

I thought the same thing last season when they added guys like Perron and Copp and rounded out their roster perhaps too well/much. Then traded away young talent like Vrana and Hronek. Very odd.

They haven’t done a good enough job of bottoming out/tanking…as crazy as it sounds. Now here they are adding these same middling level pieces again. Are they going for it? Like I don’t get it. And it doesn’t appear to be working.

 

[Byron Bitz]

the Vrana trade looks really bad atm. he might have some issues, but he can score goals at the NHL level

Vrana ended up having substance abuse issues, Can’t blame Yzerman for that one.

 

[Hisch13r]

Vrana ended up having substance abuse issues, Can’t blame Yzerman for that one.

There was something else going on there that caused a disconnect. He had 10 goals in 20 games after being moved

 

[North Cole]

This thread is about Yzerman. Go cry about Holland somewhere else.

Don't worry, in year 10 of his tenure we will still be asking them to point to the spot on the DET doll where Holland hurt them. Our team has nearly fully turned over from the roster that Chia left us with, after 5 years it's not a valid excuse for Holland to point at Chia being shit.

 

[wintersej]

wouldn't credit go to the Scouts in Tampa?

GM has to take the scouts input from all the different countries and leagues and make the final call. If it’s garbage in it’s gonna be garbage out, but the GM can also side with the wrong scout. I’m a Boston fan. Story is that the concensous was Robert Thomas but a pounding on the table moment had Sweeney pivot to Vaakaneinen. It’s just like any job. Sometimes someone makes a convincing argument for the wrong thing!

 

[norrisnick]

I think there's some denial there. Signing guys like Gostisbehere, Compher etc. doesn't win you a Cup or even a division, but it might make your team competent enough to not be in the basement group. If you know you need to build through the draft then aiming for middling competence like that worsens your picks, doesn't win you anything that would drive interest, doesn't help the long-term future of the team.

There's only two rational explanations for it:

- The team thinks all the main building blocks are already in the organization (seems unlikely but not impossible).
- There's pressure from the business side to look 'alive' in order to drive season ticket sales, media interest etc. and the hockey ops guys rationalize it as saying they're good enough at scouting and development to build even with mid-round picks (based on what evidence?).

Yzerman talked about that in a presser last season. They tried three years to be bad. They got Raymond, Edvinsson, and Kasper out of it. They made the conscious decision that they can't keep being bad and needed to turn the ship around and start improving.

 

[TKB]

I think there's some denial there. Signing guys like Gostisbehere, Compher etc. doesn't win you a Cup or even a division, but it might make your team competent enough to not be in the basement group. If you know you need to build through the draft then aiming for middling competence like that worsens your picks, doesn't win you anything that would drive interest, doesn't help the long-term future of the team.

There's only two rational explanations for it:

- The team thinks all the main building blocks are already in the organization (seems unlikely but not impossible).
- There's pressure from the business side to look 'alive' in order to drive season ticket sales, media interest etc. and the hockey ops guys rationalize it as saying they're good enough at scouting and development to build even with mid-round picks (based on what evidence?).

I appreciate the response but I disagee with this. I think the closest model that Yzerman is following for sustained success at the upper levells with multitple opporutnities to contend is the Boston Bruins.

They haven't had a top10 pick since Dougle Hamilton in 2011, I think. Before that they did have Seguin and Kessel as top 5 picks, but those weren't the guys that made them what they are.

Bergeron was drated 45th, Krejic was drafted 63rd, Marchand 71st. They got a superstar in in UFA with Chara.

They have maintained a disciplined cap structure, and have an elite culture largely established by the leadership of Chara. Yzerman tried to sign Chara in Detroit to help establish culture, and a recent article stated he was closer to coming here than I ever thought.

Though not the same, there are elements of this approach , in what Yzerman did in Tampa.

This admittedly a difficult approach, but then again all rebuild are in terms of success rates. What Yzerman has going fo him, his a methodic approach along with patience and disscipline to carry it out.

People look at the Compher signing and say that's not dscipline, but on the contrary, the contract going forward is not as much of an overpayment as it seems today, and will have not prevent him from doing what he needs to do in the future. JT is here for culture and leadership, and will take the load off of responsibilites for Kasper, Danielson and whoever when they (hopefully) are on the big team to stay.

When the time comes after SFY has accumulated numerous assets, has a fully developed pipeline of prospects and the right guy hits the market, Yzerman will be in a postition to strike, but that is still likely years away.

 

[Sabresbyswords104]

Yzerman seems to always reach with his picks.

 

[Mobiandi]

His drafting has been horrendous