What does "see more of the younger guys" mean? Does he mean he's going to completely stop watching this team and start going to CBJ and Pens games exclusively?
Speculation: When Does Bruno Get The Boot?
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What does "see more of the younger guys" mean? Does he mean he's going to completely stop watching this team and start going to CBJ and Pens games exclusively?
Kat Predator
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- Nov 28, 2019
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I have the same question. When you put this with his comment that the "cereal [sic] winners" that he himself signed are untouchable, it doesn't add up.
herzausstein
Registered User
If he had the power to have us see more of the younger guys, why wait until after Christmas? It has been 26 games. The season is almost 1/3 of the way done and the team hasnt improved in any real measurable way. Our special teams over the past 6 games has been crap. Our goal scoring is still crap. We are still giving up 3 or more goals against a game on average.
What is currently going on with not playing the young players obviously isnt working. Why wait another 9 games? Will that extra 10% of the season really help?
What is currently going on with not playing the young players obviously isnt working. Why wait another 9 games? Will that extra 10% of the season really help?
I know Trotz said Christmas, but if we lose to a fellow bottom dweller tonight to make it a five game losing streak (and 10 out of 12), he may have to consider it.
herzausstein
Registered User
Also, the team hasnt improved since the start of the season. Why did we lose young players for nothing if he was gonna get the young players more time after Christmas? Why not hold onto them?
Yet another indication Trotz is not a serious GM. Why in the world do you need to set an arbitrary date to see the state of the team? There has been more than enough of a sample size. I guess if they win a few games between now and Christmas Stanley Cup here they come!
I think with Tomasino, at least, the team truly believed he didn't have it. Organizationally they value certain traits above others (hounding pucks, winning battles) and the idea of letting a skilled player use his skill to make plays just doesn't happen here.
Of course, that only applies if you're a young player here.
herzausstein
Registered User
And i guess that's what irritates me the most. We dont let players play their game. We pound into some stupid mould and take the creativity out of their game. We force this team to be "tough to play against" by making them throw hits around and "hound the puck". If we dont like that kindof game, dont draft it. It is a terrible waste of picks. Our commentators praise the hits like they mean anything even when you lose the game. Meanwhile the stats that matter, goals for/aginst, points, etc seem to indicate we are in fact not tough to play against. Absolute bottom in Goals for/game. Being outscored by literally every NHL team
sending the waiver exempt players down and calling up different waiver exempt players to fill their spot in the press box with Trotz = “seeing more of the younger guys”.
Predsanddead24
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- Mar 7, 2019
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That point streak last year really did set this franchise back by several years I think. I’d bet Trotz’s thinking is heavily relying on the idea that we can do that again and we’ll be right back in a playoff spot.
AtlantaWhaler
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
- Jul 3, 2009
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So, we'll wait until Christmas to start playing better. Great.
I'm having a hard time understanding what is wrong with expecting "hounding the puck" to be an important part of a young players game.
Maybe we define "hounding the puck" differently but even the most talented offensively gifted players need a certain level of work ethic to get and keep possession of the puck.
Maybe we define "hounding the puck" differently but even the most talented offensively gifted players need a certain level of work ethic to get and keep possession of the puck.
- Aug 13, 2007
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Is this f***ing idiot still coaching this team?
Predsanddead24
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For me it's not that hounding the puck isn't something we should work on young players to do but more that we view hounding the puck as the be-all and end-all of player evaluation. If someone is producing twice the point total of someone else than I'm keeping that guy rather than the guy producing less because he hounds the puck more. Which was basically my view of the choice to send down Tomasino versus Sherwood in the middle of last season. Sherwood to his credit ended up kicking it into another gear after that choice but who knows what happens to Tomasino had we decided to keep him up instead. Although I also think the whole Tomasino doesn't work hard enough thing is way overstated which has always been a less popular opinion here.
Porter Stoutheart
Seen Stamkos?
- Jun 14, 2017
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Yeah, the "veteran tweener" types we've employed have maybe mastered the art of "hounding the puck". Because they learned they don't really have the skills to do much else. So it's something. Sherwood was good at that, and I guess all the Janks/Big Sexy/Smith guys do it to, at least to an acceptable extent. But the rest of their skillset is AHL level. You simply cannot make that trait the only differentiator.
(As an aside, I thought Tolvanen had at least somewhat learned the trait also... anyway he was in on the forecheck throwing hits, and hustling noticeably on the backcheck too... all of which probably detracted slightly from his ability to score... but was also completely ignored by the Braintrust apparently. Trying to teach these guys that trait at the expense of their actual niche skillset isn't the way to go either. Square pegs and round holes...
)The one Tomasino trope I find really overstated was during that training camp a couple years back on the Euro tour where it was first suggested by the coaching staff that he had been dogging it in some fashion. But I watched a lot of those games and saw the energetic and engaged version of Tomasino. They shat upon him all the same. And the narrative became entrenched that he had a bad camp or showed up unready and needed to go back to the AHL to find his game or whatever. Which I thought was totally bogus. Yet it gets oft-repeated here all the same because that was the organization narrative.
predfan24
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- Jul 12, 2006
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This might have already been said, but I feel like Bruno would already be gone if this was a bigger market with more media/fan pressure.
- Aug 13, 2007
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Funny you say that.... even thought I haven't been a regular ticket holder in years, I apparently have a ticket rep assigned to me. He's called me a few times before and lo and behold he calls me today wanting to sell me a smaller ticket pack.
My exact quote was, "Please tell your management that I have no interest in coming to see that steaming pile of dogshit that is on this ice this year. I will not buy another ticket as long as Andrew Brunette is the coach."
He laughed and acknowledged that it had been "a tough year this season"
Obviously won't do a bit of good but felt good to vent
My exact quote was, "Please tell your management that I have no interest in coming to see that steaming pile of dogshit that is on this ice this year. I will not buy another ticket as long as Andrew Brunette is the coach."
He laughed and acknowledged that it had been "a tough year this season"
Obviously won't do a bit of good but felt good to vent
Predsanddead24
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Yep I feel that was when the perception of Tomasino as low effort was cemented in a lot of peoples minds and I just never really bought it. I'm glad everyone is coming around to the idea that just because a coach thinks something about a player doesn't make it correct, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills seeing people I've argued that point about Tomasino specifically for years with on here acting like they haven't been on board with the handling of our young players (sans Fabbro) the last several seasons. Which isn't to say I haven't gone too far in the other direction (see Afansyev) but still.
Armourboy
Hey! We suck!
I've been playing WoW for 20 years so this especially makes me laugh.New nickname for Ole No Neck...
Tomasino got the bad camp rap because he didn't look good in camp. Probably if you were willing to dig hard enough you could see that opinion from people that went and watched.Yeah, the "veteran tweener" types we've employed have maybe mastered the art of "hounding the puck". Because they learned they don't really have the skills to do much else. So it's something. Sherwood was good at that, and I guess all the Janks/Big Sexy/Smith guys do it to, at least to an acceptable extent. But the rest of their skillset is AHL level. You simply cannot make that trait the only differentiator.
(As an aside, I thought Tolvanen had at least somewhat learned the trait also... anyway he was in on the forecheck throwing hits, and hustling noticeably on the backcheck too... all of which probably detracted slightly from his ability to score... but was also completely ignored by the Braintrust apparently. Trying to teach these guys that trait at the expense of their actual niche skillset isn't the way to go either. Square pegs and round holes...
The one Tomasino trope I find really overstated was during that training camp a couple years back on the Euro tour where it was first suggested by the coaching staff that he had been dogging it in some fashion. But I watched a lot of those games and saw the energetic and engaged version of Tomasino. They shat upon him all the same. And the narrative became entrenched that he had a bad camp or showed up unready and needed to go back to the AHL to find his game or whatever. Which I thought was totally bogus. Yet it gets oft-repeated here all the same because that was the organization narrative.
Now the coaches did allude to him not working in the offseason and I thi k ultimately the fans put 2 and 2 together.
Kat Predator
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- Nov 28, 2019
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It's not like the brain trust is batting 1.000 with these evaluations. Some skepticism of the company line seems healthy.
glenngineer
Registered User
Unfortunately, like many around here, the coaches held on to the belief that he wasn't doing the work off the ice. What I saw of his on-ice play, there were times I wish he were more assertive. That still didn't change the fact that he was averaging .5ppg with McC and Smith.
If he came to camp and he hadn't done the offseason work, is that on him and/or the coaches and I think it lies in the middle to be honest. The kid was what, 20 a couple of seasons ago. That's what player development is for and to check in on him during the offseason to see how it's going. It's also on some vets to mentor him and maybe workout with him.
Maybe he just didn't give a shit and thought, I did great my first year, I've earned my place. Was that on the coaches that should've said, hey, great year, we want to see you take the next step in your game and get your ppg average up to .75. Did they do that? I have no idea. Easy to point fingers but the team and the player have to be on the same course.
If I were the development staff, I would've shown him videos of Sullivan and his tenacious approach to the game and that as a smaller player, he can have the same impact. Maybe he didn't have the speed to pull it off. Maybe they got him thinking too much but he seems to be making the right plays alongside Malkin. Is that because it's Malkin and there's more room on the ice for Phil or is that because Phil is using his instincts and talent to drive his play?
Once again, a lot of unknowns but it sucks when you see a 22 year old kid you developed succeed somewhere else and wasn't given the same opportunity, it can piss you off.
Porter Stoutheart
Seen Stamkos?
- Jun 14, 2017
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That's what I disagree with. Because I watched too. I think those people were "towing the company line", not watching. Those posts are definitely on here somewhere. But it definitely did become the narrative.
Armourboy
Hey! We suck!
I mean I did too and I definitely don't recall him looking good. I mean its not like everyone would have jumped on that band wagon just because the coaches said so, we disagree with those guys all the time, especially when it doesn't match the eye test.
I seem to recall no one being really impressed with him going through camp. Eventually the coaches make that comment and people then assume that was probably the issue. I mean you see the guy not playing well, and a coach says he didn't do the offseason work its pretty dang plausible.
Obviously he didn't have a good camp because if he had that mess would have never stuck. No one liked Hynes to start with so absolutely no one had a reason to take his side unless something was matching what they were seeing.
Some of us were critical of his work ethic the year he was on the forth line most of the time and scored his 0.5PPG. This isn't now and wasn't then some "idiots just towing the company line" type thing. Look up that season and you'll see that Tomasino did f***all when on the PP or higher lines. As a matter of fact he was a major liability in the Dzone against higher level opponents because he couldn't or wouldn't win a board battle to clear the puck.
Again though, that being said, this year he was different and showed the maturity and determination to possess the puck. He was the coaches redheaded stepchild that couldn't prove himself worthy no matter what he did. And now he's gone.
Again though, that being said, this year he was different and showed the maturity and determination to possess the puck. He was the coaches redheaded stepchild that couldn't prove himself worthy no matter what he did. And now he's gone.
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