When did teams stop using injury timelines?

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

I feel like it's become so normalized for players to disappear for weeks and months without any sort of injury information or timeline.

Victor Arvidsson was out for 15 games earlier in the season, we never found out why.

What's Roman Josi's timeline? He was taken out of a game nearly a month ago and there's no confirmation of what his injury actually is (suspected concussion?) or when he's supposed to return.

What's Kaprizov's timeline? "Longer than expected" - Bill Guerin

Eriksson-Ek?

At the start of January, Val Nichushkin was announced to be out 7-10 days with a "lower body injury". He was subsequently out of the lineup for 2 months.

I get that once in a while it can be hard to have a definitive timeline, but it's turning into the new standard now.

Used to be quite normal to see things like "4-6 weeks" or "aiming for mid April", now it's just "week-to-week" which could be anywhere from one to 30 weeks.

 

[ijuka]

Probably when NHL embraced gambling.

 

[MikeyMike01]

Probably when NHL embraced gambling.

I would expect the opposite. The NFL is super transparent with injuries, because of gambling.

 

[Djp]

I would expect the opposite. The NFL is super transparent with injuries, because of gambling.

Not always. Post season you hear about injuries that were not disclosed

 

[Djp]

I feel like it's become so normalized for players to disappear for weeks and months without any sort of injury information or timeline.

Victor Arvidsson was out for 15 games earlier in the season, we never found out why.

What's Roman Josi's timeline? He was taken out of a game nearly a month ago and there's no confirmation of what his injury actually is (suspected concussion?) or when he's supposed to return.

What's Kaprizov's timeline? "Longer than expected" - Bill Guerin

Eriksson-Ek?

At the start of January, Val Nichushkin was announced to be out 7-10 days with a "lower body injury". He was subsequently out of the lineup for 2 months.

I get that once in a while it can be hard to have a definitive timeline, but it's turning into the new standard now.

Used to be quite normal to see things like "4-6 weeks" or "aiming for mid April", now it's just "week-to-week" which could be anywhere from one to 30 weeks.

There are 2 parts....

1. Specific injury location
2. Time missed

They usually will mention the injury if surgery is needed and they are out 2+ months

With IR you done have s game count. Its just a day count.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Not always. Post season you hear about injuries that were not disclosed

That they played through though, right?

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

There are 2 parts....

1. Specific injury location
2. Time missed

They usually will mention the injury if surgery is needed and they are out 2+ months

With IR you done have s game count. Its just a day count.

Yeah, thats my point. They used to mention injuries regardless of surgery.

 

[bov]

It should be nobody's damn business to know the extent or timeline of an injury/illness/etc but gambling plays a large role.

 

[Djp]

That they played through though, right?

Yrs they played with the injury and it was not listed

For example wi th h the Bill's TE kincaid mussef some games fue ti injury. After he played but wa not his n pi rank self and he played under 50% of the snaps.

Allen had an injury to his hand/,fnger that wasnt reported
.Coleman missed time, came back, wasnt the same. After season ended it was said he wasn't 100%

With Sabres-' I think per break Thompson wasnt 100% but not missing games due to a hand/wrist injury where faceoffs was s big problem with this injury

 

[WarriorofTime]

Because Hockey Media is largely filled with types that want to be buddy-buddy with management and ownership groups in exchange for access, so they don't demand accountability and transparency here.

 

[Hennessy]

The Avalanche were trailblazers in this regard. Every other franchise noted you could get away with just not saying stuff.

Edit: I hadn't even considered the gambling aspect. Colorado's silence predates the league's enthusiasm for that, but for other teams it may very well play a role.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Some of it is a change in the way injuries are managed. There’s far less of an attitude of “it’s been two weeks, man up and earn your pay” and more patience with re-evaluating with a goal of 100% recovery. With 8-year contracts and a salary cap, you can’t afford to ruin a guy with impatience over his availability. So there’s no point giving timelines when the reality is you will likely not stick to them anyway.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

It’s so they can take advantage of LTIR how Vegas does

 

[Machinehead]

Gamling is huge in other sports and other leagues will tell you exactly what the injury is.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The injury secrecy started before gambling. It's been either upper or lower body injury for a while now, and it's annoying.

 

[banks]

It's in the best interest of the team and the player to be secretive about an injury. The less the opposition knows, the better.

A player doesn't want the opposing players to know if he recently hurt his foot or knee. They could target it, or might know that you have limits on certain movements. Where as the team doesn't want other teams to know what players will or won't be available for a game. That way they can't plan and prepare as well. And if you say "two weeks" and it turns into a month then you bring up a lot of unwanted questions and attention.

There's a bunch of other reasons. It's just better (for them) to keep it quiet.

The league requires some form of description and timeline. But with no rules to what those descriptions or timelines need to be, the teams can get away with being as vague as possible. That's why it's all "lower body, week to week". Because that satisfies the requirement while revealing essentially nothing.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

It's in the best interest of the team and the player to be secretive about an injury. The less the opposition knows, the better.

A player doesn't want the opposing players to know if he recently hurt his foot or knee. They could target it, or might know that you have limits on certain movements. Where as the team doesn't want other teams to know what players will or won't be available for a game. That way they can't plan and prepare as well. And if you say "two weeks" and it turns into a month then you bring up a lot of unwanted questions and attention.

There's a bunch of other reasons. It's just better (for them) to keep it quiet.

The league requires some form of description and timeline. But with no rules to what those descriptions or timelines need to be, the teams can get away with being as vague as possible. That's why it's all "lower body, week to week". Because that satisfies the requirement while revealing essentially nothing.

I never really bought the “teams will target the injury” stuff. Is there any evidence of that that’s not speculative or anecdotal?

The NFL is way more violent and I’ve never heard that as a reason to not disclose injuries in that sport. If anything, teams get chastised for failing to report injury details.

The NHL injury disclosure stuff is frankly bizarre and has been for a long time. It’s not an issue in any other major sport. A couple weeks ago when LeBron (the face of the NBA) got injured, the broadcast reported it was a groin strain within about five minutes.

 

[banks]

I never really bought the “teams will target the injury” stuff. Is there any evidence of that that’s not speculative or anecdotal?

The NFL is way more violent and I’ve never heard that as a reason to not disclose injuries in that sport. If anything, teams get chastised for failing to report injury details.

The NHL injury disclosure stuff is frankly bizarre and has been for a long time. It’s not an issue in any other major sport. A couple weeks ago when LeBron (the face of the NBA) got injured, the broadcast reported it was a groin strain within about five minutes.

Yes. Nytimes (only last year) did an anonymous player poll that included discussion about being transparent about player injuries. I can't read it past the paywall. But here's a reddit post about it. Here's what players themselves said:

“I know guys would get targeted. I’d target people and hit his foot from the crease."

"If someone knows that you have a bad wrist, we’re going to slash your wrist. We’re competitive. It’s violent out there. Everyone says they don’t try and hurt or injure people, but we all know you do.”

"During the regular season, you’re not going to target a guy’s injury. But in the playoffs, you’re going to.”

Not anecdotal. No speculation. Firsthand admissions from the players themselves. End of discussion.

 

[Summer Rose]

I never really bought the “teams will target the injury” stuff. Is there any evidence of that that’s not speculative or anecdotal?

The NFL is way more violent and I’ve never heard that as a reason to not disclose injuries in that sport. If anything, teams get chastised for failing to report injury details.

The NHL injury disclosure stuff is frankly bizarre and has been for a long time. It’s not an issue in any other major sport. A couple weeks ago when LeBron (the face of the NBA) got injured, the broadcast reported it was a groin strain within about five minutes.

As violent as the NFL is, it seems like there are a lot fewer attempts by players to injure each other. Could be wrong though. NFL players can and do take advantage of knowing a guy they’re going up against is dealing with some kind of injury though. If an edge rusher is lined up against an offensive tackle dealing with a shoulder issue, he’s going to attack more often on that side in order to try to get past him in order to pressure the quarterback. What I haven’t really seen is something like a blocker do a blindside chop block on a guy who has a knee issue though. Hockey players would definitely do both in equivalent situations. They’ve even admitted they would, as mentioned by the poster above me.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Very annoying. Every Leaf injury this year is day to day per Berube. Some guys miss a practice and no games, others out for months

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Yes. Nytimes (only last year) did an anonymous player poll that included discussion about being transparent about player injuries. I can't read it past the paywall. But here's a reddit post about it. Here's what players themselves said:

“I know guys would get targeted. I’d target people and hit his foot from the crease."

"If someone knows that you have a bad wrist, we’re going to slash your wrist. We’re competitive. It’s violent out there. Everyone says they don’t try and hurt or injure people, but we all know you do.”

"During the regular season, you’re not going to target a guy’s injury. But in the playoffs, you’re going to.”

Not anecdotal. No speculation. Firsthand admissions from the players themselves. End of discussion.

Kinda shameful to me that this is just accepted and players admit to this. Really curious which players said it.

Ive always thought this is insane when people bring it up in the past like it’s normal behavior.

 

[banks]

Kinda shameful to me that this is just accepted and players admit to this. Really curious which players said it.

Ive always thought this is insane when people bring it up in the past like it’s normal behavior.

I agree completely that it's shameful. But it's also undeniable.

Those quotes form the nytimes article where players admitted they would target an injury are shocking. But it's way worse when you realise that the topic was only one small question on a large poll, and it only reached a small number of players. If you had a way to get all players' anonymous thoughts, it you'd get far more, and far worse, admissions about targeting.

There's no way to stop it either, other than keeping injury info private. So I'm fine with the current NHL rules. They shouldn't have to disclose anything. "Upper body" and "day to day" is all anyone reasonably needs to know.