What's The Best Non-Big Four Season Offensively (Since 1967)?

[DitchMarner]

Since the '67 expansion, what season is the best offensive season by a non-Big Four (Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe) player? We'll limit things to the post 1967 expansion era since it can be difficult to compare scoring from the Original Six Era and prior to modern scoring.

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[BraveCanadian]

For me it is close between Espo, Yzerman, Jagr and McDavid… I’m thinking Jagr 99

 

[JackSlater]

For me it's one of Yzerman 1989, Jagr 1999, and McDavid 2023. I voted for Yzerman but all three are good picks.

 

[WalterLundy]

Either 2021 or 2023 McDavid easily.

 

[hamzarocks]

Mcdavid 21 or Mcdavid 23

 

[norrisnick]

Yzerman in '89. If you're discounting the Big 4, he scored 45 more points than anyone that didn't play with Wayne or Mario that year.

EDIT - and 62 points more than his closest teammate.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

The highest level of performance was probably McDavid in 2021, but I'm hesitant to vote for it because it was an unusual season (only 56 games, and only against divisional opponents). Obviously none of that is McDavid's fault, but I can't ignore the context either. The fact that he came close to matching that level of performance in 2023 definitely helps (it proves it wasn't a byproduct of that unusual year).

But I'm not certain if McDavid in 2023 was better than Jagr in 1999. Jagr scored 127 points in a much lower-scoring season. A crude, high level adjustment based solely on leaguewide GPG gets him up to 154 points (essentially matching McDavid's output in 2023). Jagr pretty clearly had a weaker supporting cast (not that McDavid had strong support, but it's hard to overlook that he collaborated with Draisaitl 75 times - Jagr's best teammate was Martin Straka). On the other hand, McDavid was 35% ahead of the next closest non-teammate - there were five different players who were within 35% of Jagr. I haven't voted yet, and am open to hearing arguments, but these were the seasons that immediately jumped out.

 

[WalterLundy]

The highest level of performance was probably McDavid in 2021, but I'm hesitant to vote for it because it was an unusual season (only 56 games, and only against divisional opponents). Obviously none of that is McDavid's fault, but I can't ignore the context either. The fact that he came close to matching that level of performance in 2023 definitely helps (it proves it wasn't a byproduct of that unusual year).

But I'm not certain if McDavid in 2023 was better than Jagr in 1999. Jagr scored 127 points in a much lower-scoring season. A crude, high level adjustment based solely on leaguewide GPG gets him up to 154 points (essentially matching McDavid's output in 2023). Jagr pretty clearly had a weaker supporting cast (not that McDavid had strong support, but it's hard to overlook that he collaborated with Draisaitl 75 times - Jagr's best teammate was Martin Straka). On the other hand, McDavid was 35% ahead of the next closest non-teammate - there were five different players who were within 35% of Jagr. I haven't voted yet, and am open to hearing arguments, but these were the seasons that immediately jumped out.

The highest level of performance was probably McDavid in 2021, but I'm hesitant to vote for it because it was an unusual season (only 56 games, and only against divisional opponents). Obviously none of that is McDavid's fault, but I can't ignore the context either. The fact that he came close to matching that level of performance in 2023 definitely helps (it proves it wasn't a byproduct of that unusual year).

But I'm not certain if McDavid in 2023 was better than Jagr in 1999. Jagr scored 127 points in a much lower-scoring season. A crude, high level adjustment based solely on leaguewide GPG gets him up to 154 points (essentially matching McDavid's output in 2023). Jagr pretty clearly had a weaker supporting cast (not that McDavid had strong support, but it's hard to overlook that he collaborated with Draisaitl 75 times - Jagr's best teammate was Martin Straka). On the other hand, McDavid was 35% ahead of the next closest non-teammate - there were five different players who were within 35% of Jagr. I haven't voted yet, and am open to hearing arguments, but these were the seasons that immediately jumped out.

2022-23: ESG: 2.39, PPG: 0.65, SHG: 0.10
1998-99: ESG: 1.84, PPG: 0.69, SHG: 0.10

22-23 McDavid:
82 GP: 64 G, 89 A, 153 P (1.87)

98-99 Jagr in 22-23 levels:
81 GP: 53 G, 96 A, 149 P (1.84)

McDavid 2023 dominated his peers to a greater extent and also has better numbers when the special teams and even strength are adjusted accordingly. Is also the first season since Gretzky 86-87 to lead outright in goals, assists and points. As someone who is a huge Jagr fan I think it’s pretty easily McDavid even though this was his premiere season that I enjoyed firsthand and up close.

2020-21: EVG: 2.25, PPG: 0.57, SHG: 0.07

20-21 McDavid in 22-23 levels:
56 GP: 36 G, 79 A, 115 P (2.05)

This season however beats them all. Easily the best season for non big 4 on a per game basis. The only seasons that I’d say that are better (for Gretzky and Lemieux only) are 82-87 Gretzky, 89 and 93 Lemieux. That’s it really.

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

McNuggies

 

[jigglysquishy]

I suspect McDavid 2023 wins and a lot of that comes down to goals and games played. But in terms of just straight up game to game domination, his 2021 campaign is the best non Big Four hockey I've seen.

I can see an argument for Jagr 99, but I do think these 3 seasons are clearly better than all the other included ones.

 

[Video Nasty]

2022-2023 McDavid.

A normal, full 82 game season to prove that two seasons prior wasn’t a fluke.

Led in goals, assists, and points.

Cleared his closest non-teammate by 40 points.

Had just 7 pointless games all season long, which is Gretzky territory, and collected at least a point in 59 out of his final 62 games.

76 points in the first half and 77 points in the second half.

I think we’ll see a return of that player this upcoming season once he’s all healed up.

 

[insomniac]

Is Teemu Selanne’s 1992-93 rookie season worth mentioning here? 76 goals (tied for second all-time among non-big four) and 132 points in his first campaign is insane.

 

[Felidae]

Is Teemu Selanne’s 1992-93 rookie season worth mentioning here? 76 goals (tied for second all-time among non-big four) and 132 points in his first campaign is insane.

It's an all time great goalscoring season, but not for overall production.

 

[Rorschach]

Bernie Nicholls, 70g 80a, 150pts.

 

[JackSlater]

Is Teemu Selanne’s 1992-93 rookie season worth mentioning here? 76 goals (tied for second all-time among non-big four) and 132 points in his first campaign is insane.

No, not really. That season gets overrated because of the raw totals but scoring was crazy that year. Selanne was only tied for fifth in points and tied for first in goals. Third in goals per game, seventh in points per game, didn't bring a whole lot outside of offence. It's still a great season but 1993 was crazy and it is not remotely a contender for best offensive season outside of Gretzky, Lemieux, or Orr since 1967.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

2022-23: ESG: 2.39, PPG: 0.65, SHG: 0.10
1998-99: ESG: 1.84, PPG: 0.69, SHG: 0.10

22-23 McDavid:
82 GP: 64 G, 89 A, 153 P (1.87)

98-99 Jagr in 22-23 levels:
81 GP: 53 G, 96 A, 149 P (1.84)

McDavid 2023 dominated his peers to a greater extent and also has better numbers when the special teams and even strength are adjusted accordingly. Is also the first season since Gretzky 86-87 to lead outright in goals, assists and points. As someone who is a huge Jagr fan I think it’s pretty easily McDavid even though this was his premiere season that I enjoyed firsthand and up close.

2020-21: EVG: 2.25, PPG: 0.57, SHG: 0.07

20-21 McDavid in 22-23 levels:
56 GP: 36 G, 79 A, 115 P (2.05)

This season however beats them all. Easily the best season for non big 4 on a per game basis. The only seasons that I’d say that are better (for Gretzky and Lemieux only) are 82-87 Gretzky, 89 and 93 Lemieux. That’s it really.

I actually prefer the method you used for adjusting the scoring environment (because it captures ES and PP scoring levels separately). That supports the notion that McDavid 2023 was slightly stronger than Jagr 1999. But the difference is small, and it comes down to how much of a boost McDavid had playing with Draisaitl.

 

[WalterLundy]

I actually prefer the method you used for adjusting the scoring environment (because it captures ES and PP scoring levels separately). That supports the notion that McDavid 2023 was slightly stronger than Jagr 1999. But the difference is small, and it comes down to how much of a boost McDavid had playing with Draisaitl.

For sure. I wouldn’t blame anyone for taking Jagr 1999. That season was incredible and he did so with a cast that wasn’t exactly great. The gap isn’t big for points or ppg but beyond peer dominance in McDavid’s favor it comes down to a few things. McDavid had the better goal scoring season by 11 adjusted goals and was able to be the driver on the greatest powerplay ever (by conversion rate) while having the best adjusted powerplay individual ouput ever by this method. Doing so in a league with low PPO and PPG as a whole is also an amazing feat. Also the historical significance of leading outright in goals, assists and points for the first time since 1987 Wayne Gretzky is truly remarkable.

I also got to see McDavid that year when he came to Pittsburgh (2 goals, 2 assists that night) when he was in the middle of the 5 consecutive multi goal games. I also got to see 1999 Jagr a lot live and while he was arguably my favorite penguin ever to watch I thought that version of McDavid was a level of offensive skill that I just haven’t seen. Not saying he’s better than Gretzky or Lemieux but what I was seeing was very special. Maybe that plays a role as well for me. In any event either season is a fine selection and I’d get it either way these are just my primary reasons.

 

[DitchMarner]

Okay... McDavid '23 has 24 votes (four times as many as the option with the next most votes: Yzerman '89). I'm going to turn this into a polls series and start the second poll now.

 

[Xspyrit]

Ryan Poehling 3.0 PPG season, all his points were goals too

AINEC