Kings Article: What You Probably Don’t Know About Kevin Gravel’s Rise On LA Kings Depth Chart

[FrozenRoyalty]

Los aAngeles Kings fans probably saw defenseman prospect Kevin Gravel make his Kings and National Hockey League debut last season during an East Coast road trip. He played in five games and certainly didn't look out of place.

Gravel had a great season with the Ontario Reign of the AHL, and is now expected to make the big club's roster for the 2016-17 season.

But what's interesting is the FULL backstory about how he rose to the top of the Kings depth chart for defenseman, passing older more experienced players. Kings Director of Amateur Scouting Mark Yanetti shared with Frozen Royalty more than what's been reported previously regarding why he chose to stay in the Kings organization on an AHL contract when he could've easily signed with another NHL team instead.

Check it out at...

What You Probably Don’t Know About Kevin Gravel’s Rise On LA Kings Depth Chart

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[Peter James Bond II]

Thanks, Gann. Great story. I really started paying attention to Gravel when Tonellisghost was on here, highly touting Kevin. Great to learn more about him and the work he has put in. Have a good feeling he will be a third pairing this year with the Kings. I believe he would be good as Doughty's partner, as Kevin is a better skater than McNabb, as well as a little more poised. Time will tell.

 

[Fishhead]

Great read, very interesting to hear such a detailed account.

I'm going to be pulling for him even harder in camp, the guy has demonstrated that this is where he wants to be.

 

[triplcrown]

Gravel needs to be trained as Doughty's D-partner.

We really have no choice but to put in that spot the best young "shutdown"-type D-man we have available in our system at this time.

Ideally, we'd sign a "Willie Mitchell"-type, and that would be that.
Except WMs do not grow on trees, and we couldn't sign one even if he were available, due to cap space limits.

It has to be Gravel -- who can switch-off with McNabb----IMO, we should leave Muzzin/Martinez (who played great together at times this year) together as our 2nd pair.

Gravel has a more natural "defense-1st"/"shutdown" mentality than McNabb, and is a better skater as well.

I saw him play 5 games at Ontario this season, and he projected true "studliness" on many shifts.

IMO, for best results, put Gravel with DD and set expectations on "high".


And really, what other choice do we have?

 

[Trolfoli]

Did Gravel rise or did Forbort fall?

I'm a ****... lol... guess I'll read the article now.

Nice article... Now it's on Gravel to beat out some guys for a spot so we don't have to watch Scuderi all ****ing year.

 

[bob77]

I don't think Forbort has fallen at all. Him and Gravel are very close as far as what we truly need. The story plays well because Gravel was an unknown by scouts somewhat. Gravel two seasons ago was a scratch most games until the end of the year at Manchester. He only started playing more consistently when he played with Forbort. That says just as much about Forbort's game as Gravel's. They do play well together. I've been saying this for a very long time now. I've said it before and I'll say it again. They're pretty much the same player. Gravel is a little better offensively, and thus he got to quarterback the PP along with Backman. This gave him a lot of confidence IMO. However, he certainly is NOT a PP specialist. Ontario just did not have anyone on D that truly excelled in that role. Forbort is a little better defensively, and is a slightly better PK. They both skate well and move the puck well. They will both battle along the boards and in the corners. Both will stay tight with their man in coverage in the D zone. Both have reach, break up plays well, get to pucks and get the play moving the other way. The Forbort story is just about how the Kings should have never taken him in the first round. The Gravel story is about how all the teams should have probably taken him in a higher round, including the Kings. Both probably should have gone in the second or third round in hindsight. One story sounds like success and one sounds like failure, but to 18 year old kids on draft day, they are all equal after that. They all lace em up the same way. The part about Gravel being a free agent is a little overblown IMO. First, every college kid can play four years and then be a UFA. Second, the money you sign for and are going to get isn't much different. The fact he signed an AHL contract at first and not an NHL contract was advantageous to him as well. It was a one year deal, and at the end of the year if he didn't like how things were going, he was a UFA again. Actually for NHL purposes, he was a UFA still during his entire time in Manchester. He could have signed an NHL contract with any team at any time if he liked. Going forward, I hope one of Gravel or Forbort gets plenty of playing time this year, if not both. I'd expect things to start out a little slow, but after awhile they'd both settle in. They are certainly going to be an upgrade over Schenn and Scuderi.

 

[lakonigla]

(Quote 1) "He still had success because he was so good and so smart. But we didn’t offer him an NHL contract.â€

(Quote 2) “There was no way he was going to earn an NHL contract from us,†Yanetti declared. “No way he was going to be able to achieve the things we put in front of him."

(Quote 3) “Now you look at him, he’s on the cusp of being a full-time NHL player,†Yanetti added. “He’s got a Calder Cup Championship that he was a factor in winning.

(Quote 4) "You could argue that he’s our best defensive prospect.â€


Should I concerned about our scouts and developmental stuff?

 

[bob77]

We really have no choice but to put in that spot the best young "shutdown"-type D-man we have available in our system at this time.

Ideally, we'd sign a "Willie Mitchell"-type, and that would be that.
Except WMs do not grow on trees, and we couldn't sign one even if he were available, due to cap space limits.

It has to be Gravel -- who can switch-off with McNabb----IMO, we should leave Muzzin/Martinez (who played great together at times this year) together as our 2nd pair.

Gravel has a more natural "defense-1st"/"shutdown" mentality than McNabb, and is a better skater as well.

I saw him play 5 games at Ontario this season, and he projected true "studliness" on many shifts.

IMO, for best results, put Gravel with DD and set expectations on "high".


And really, what other choice do we have?

I agree with your comparison with McNabb. I've always believed that McNabb excelled on his Buffalo AHL team as an offensive catalyst. Even the 20 games or so he played with Manchester, he was offensive, risk taking, and actually good at it. He also liked to run guys as much as possible. The Kings have, as some say on this board, neutered his offense, and haven't been fully successful at transforming him into a SAH D. Gravel on the other hand is naturally a SAH D, with offensive spurts here and here. Forbort is almost strictly a SAH D, and this comes naturally to him also.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

(Quote 1) "He still had success because he was so good and so smart. But we didn’t offer him an NHL contract.”

(Quote 2) “There was no way he was going to earn an NHL contract from us,” Yanetti declared. “No way he was going to be able to achieve the things we put in front of him."

(Quote 3) “Now you look at him, he’s on the cusp of being a full-time NHL player,” Yanetti added. “He’s got a Calder Cup Championship that he was a factor in winning.

(Quote 4) "You could argue that he’s our best defensive prospect.”


Should I concerned about our scouts and developmental stuff?

I've seen this come up before with college prospects who stay a year or two too long and stagnate. With the development staff having limited access to college prospects until after they turn pro, I don't think we can put it on the staff until the end of the first year. They can teach good technique, but it's interesting to see which prospects show real growth and consistency from the second half of the first pro season onward.

The scouts have done a very good job finding mid-round prospects who meet their potential, buy in to the team-first philosophy and who don't appear to have attitude problems. They also are good at finding prospects that give the Kings value in trades. Thinking about prospects we've traded away or lost through waivers, (Thomas Hickey, Hudson Fasching, Nic Deslauriers, Colin Miller, J-F Berube, Linden Vey, Brian O' Neiil, Jordan Weal, Valentin Zykov, Roland McKeown) only the smaller players O'Neill, Vey, and Weal have struggled to add value to their new teams. It's too early to judge Zykov, of course, because of his injury.

Anyway, great article on Kevin Gravel, Gann.

 

[HookKing]

I agree with your comparison with McNabb. I've always believed that McNabb excelled on his Buffalo AHL team as an offensive catalyst. Even the 20 games or so he played with Manchester, he was offensive, risk taking, and actually good at it. He also liked to run guys as much as possible. The Kings have, as some say on this board, neutered his offense, and haven't been fully successful at transforming him into a SAH D. Gravel on the other hand is naturally a SAH D, with offensive spurts here and here. Forbort is almost strictly a SAH D, and this comes naturally to him also.

The AHL is not the NHL. McNabb doesn't have anywhere near the foot speed to duplicate his AHL "excellence" in the NHL.

 

[Basilisk]

I don't think Forbort has fallen at all. Him and Gravel are very close as far as what we truly need. The story plays well because Gravel was an unknown by scouts somewhat. Gravel two seasons ago was a scratch most games until the end of the year at Manchester. He only started playing more consistently when he played with Forbort. That says just as much about Forbort's game as Gravel's. They do play well together.

Which player plays which side?


Thanks!!!

 

[bob77]

Which player plays which side?


Thanks!!!

When they play together, Gravel always plays the right side. Both are left handed. Gravel shows very good versatility playing his off side. He has somewhat mastered quick, hand eye, skating movements that come with playing the right side, much like Alec Martinez. IMO, when playing the off side, it's more difficult to break out and play D in our zone, but makes for more offensive opportunity on the offensive blue line with your stick to the middle of the rink, and scooping puck off the boards and walking to the middle of the rink on your forehand. With that said, Gravel is much better at playing the right side than Forbort. However, it doesn't mean that Gravel is better than Forbort when playing the left side. In fact, he has played so much right side that left side seems almost new to him and strange. It will be interesting what combinations DS decides to go with. He could put Martinez back on the left side, but that would end the Muzzin Martinez pairing. If so, that could be a spot on the right side for Gravel. If you had to look at competition for spots, it'd be like this:

Right side
DD
AM
Trotman
Gravel
Greene
Gilbert

Left side
Muzzin
AM
Gravel
Forbort
McNabb
Scuderi

 

[bob77]

The AHL is not the NHL. McNabb doesn't have anywhere near the foot speed to duplicate his AHL "excellence" in the NHL.

No. I agree. I wasn't clear. I'm not suggesting the Kings try to groom McNabbs AHL offensive excellence. I am saying though they did realize they had to tame him down a bit.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I get the feeling people are simply down on forbort and up on gravel because of draft position. I do think Gravel has already displayed a better mind and poise for the game though, that's the biggest visible difference between the two at this point.

But I do think Forbort is being undersold. I do remember saying more than once that the guy fired two to three of the hardest, best breakout passes I've seen ever. He's got the latent ability, I question his mind in combination with his footspeed--he can look slower/clompier than he is (like Muzzin at first) because he doesn't necessarily know where he's going (still early, developmental steps imo). But I DO think he's got upside still and he should be getting NHL minutes, just like Gravel

(Quote 1) "He still had success because he was so good and so smart. But we didn’t offer him an NHL contract.â€

(Quote 2) “There was no way he was going to earn an NHL contract from us,†Yanetti declared. “No way he was going to be able to achieve the things we put in front of him."

(Quote 3) “Now you look at him, he’s on the cusp of being a full-time NHL player,†Yanetti added. “He’s got a Calder Cup Championship that he was a factor in winning.

(Quote 4) "You could argue that he’s our best defensive prospect.â€


Should I concerned about our scouts and developmental stuff?

I read that as they should be applauded for being able to read the guy well enough to be able to challenge him like that and come out with a gem. They knew his character and personality enough--along with his potential--to do such a thing. Gutsy, for sure.

 

[damacles1156]

Defenders take a long time to develop. Unless you have talent like Doughty, its going to be a long road ahead. Look at how many people labeled Hickey a bust, he is now a solid Defender for NYI.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

I get the feeling people are simply down on forbort and up on gravel because of draft position. I do think Gravel has already displayed a better mind and poise for the game though, that's the biggest visible difference between the two at this point.

But I do think Forbort is being undersold. I do remember saying more than once that the guy fired two to three of the hardest, best breakout passes I've seen ever. He's got the latent ability, I question his mind in combination with his footspeed--he can look slower/clompier than he is (like Muzzin at first) because he doesn't necessarily know where he's going (still early, developmental steps imo). But I DO think he's got upside still and he should be getting NHL minutes, just like Gravel



I read that as they should be applauded for being able to read the guy well enough to be able to challenge him like that and come out with a gem. They knew his character and personality enough--along with his potential--to do such a thing. Gutsy, for sure.

Jason Lewis has a new article up on Derek Forbort over at Hockeybuzz. As for how they evaluate prospect defenseman, Jason had this observation:



I'd love to see what analytics the Kings are using beyond the basics.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Jason Lewis has a new article up on Derek Forbort over at Hockeybuzz. As for how they evaluate prospect defenseman, Jason had this observation:



I'd love to see what analytics the Kings are using beyond the basics.

Well, on top of that, he was also the top CF% player in the league. It was also a preciously small sample size so you can't extrapolate huge conclusions other than "we wanted to see more of what Forbort could do with more playing time," which is exactly what I took a crapload of heat for at the time for some reason.

Edit: yeah I see Jason covered that haha. I still think Gravel has the better instincts and thus ceiling but I do think Forbort should be an everyday NHL dman even if just a bottom pairing one. He has a modern skillset.

 

[bob77]

Well, on top of that, he was also the top CF% player in the league. It was also a preciously small sample size so you can't extrapolate huge conclusions other than "we wanted to see more of what Forbort could do with more playing time," which is exactly what I took a crapload of heat for at the time for some reason.

Edit: yeah I see Jason covered that haha. I still think Gravel has the better instincts and thus ceiling but I do think Forbort should be an everyday NHL dman even if just a bottom pairing one. He has a modern skillset.

It wasn't me giving you crap. I have been on the Gravel Forbort bandwagon for a long time now. At times I find myself sticking up more for Forbort because of him being labeled a failure due to his draft position, and people thinking Gravel is a success due to his draft position. I have watched a lot of these two over the years, even in the college games, AHL Live, etc. I respect everyone's opinion about the two, because to me they have been essentially the same player. I just want to see one of them move forward in the process, if not both.

 

[Thrice]

When they play together, Gravel always plays the right side. Both are left handed. Gravel shows very good versatility playing his off side. He has somewhat mastered quick, hand eye, skating movements that come with playing the right side, much like Alec Martinez. IMO, when playing the off side, it's more difficult to break out and play D in our zone, but makes for more offensive opportunity on the offensive blue line with your stick to the middle of the rink, and scooping puck off the boards and walking to the middle of the rink on your forehand. With that said, Gravel is much better at playing the right side than Forbort. However, it doesn't mean that Gravel is better than Forbort when playing the left side. In fact, he has played so much right side that left side seems almost new to him and strange. It will be interesting what combinations DS decides to go with. He could put Martinez back on the left side, but that would end the Muzzin Martinez pairing. If so, that could be a spot on the right side for Gravel. If you had to look at competition for spots, it'd be like this:

Right side
DD
AM
Trotman
Gravel
Greene
Gilbert

Left side
Muzzin
AM
Gravel
Forbort
McNabb
Scuderi

Here's the reality.

Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez and McNabb are the top 4 minutes eaters, as they were last season.

Gilbert, Trotman, Gravel and Forbort will compete for the final 3 spots.

I cannot imagine a scenario where the Kings have two pairings with left shots playing the right side. So either Gravel will get NHL ice time or Forbort but not both. Now, if there are injuries then all bets are off but I just can't see a way both Forbort and Gravel end up in the starting lineup come game one.

Lastly, there's also the expansion draft to consider. Every team will be required to expose one defenseman who is a) under contract in 2017-18 (or RFA) and b) played in 40 or more NHL games the prior season OR played in 70 or more NHL games in the prior two seasons.

I see this as big incentive for Lombardi to ensure that Trotman plays at least 32 games next season as he would fulfill the games played requirement. Last year he played 38 games. Assuming either Gravel or Forbort get into 40 games next year either one or both of them could also be exposed. The alternative is exposing one of Doughty/Muzzin/Martinez/McNabb.

I have a feeling the team will break camp as follows:

McNabb/Doughty
Muzzin/Martinez
Gravel/Gilbert/Trotman

What I don't want to see is:

McNabb/Doughty
Muzzin/Gilbert
Martinez/Trotman
Gravel

 

[Basilisk]

Here's the reality.

Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez and McNabb are the top 4 minutes eaters, as they were last season.

Gilbert, Trotman, Gravel and Forbort will compete for the final 3 spots.

I cannot imagine a scenario where the Kings have two pairings with left shots playing the right side. So either Gravel will get NHL ice time or Forbort but not both. Now, if there are injuries then all bets are off but I just can't see a way both Forbort and Gravel end up in the starting lineup come game one.

Lastly, there's also the expansion draft to consider. Every team will be required to expose one defenseman who is a) under contract in 2017-18 (or RFA) and b) played in 40 or more NHL games the prior season OR played in 70 or more NHL games in the prior two seasons.

I see this as big incentive for Lombardi to ensure that Trotman plays at least 32 games next season as he would fulfill the games played requirement. Last year he played 38 games. Assuming either Gravel or Forbort get into 40 games next year either one or both of them could also be exposed. The alternative is exposing one of Doughty/Muzzin/Martinez/McNabb.

I have a feeling the team will break camp as follows:

McNabb/Doughty
Muzzin/Martinez
Gravel/Gilbert/Trotman

What I don't want to see is:

McNabb/Doughty
Muzzin/Gilbert
Martinez/Trotman
Gravel

Here's what I would favor.....


Scuderi & Greene being sent to Ontario to mentor our AHL D.... That situation might actually be beneficial to cap space, but I'm no rules lawyer. Then.....



McNabb / Doughty

Muzzin / Martinez

Forbort / Gravel


.....which leaves Gilbert & Trotman as the designated "healthy scratch" defensemen.

 

[bob77]

Here's what I would favor.....


Scuderi & Greene being sent to Ontario to mentor our AHL D.... That situation might actually be beneficial to cap space, but I'm no rules lawyer. Then.....



McNabb / Doughty

Muzzin / Martinez

Forbort / Gravel


.....which leaves Gilbert & Trotman as the designated "healthy scratch" defensemen.

As a team, we've walked ourselves then into an AHL situation that gives AHL coaches some very experienced NHL vets, so then what does that mean for the franchise that prouds itself on developing players in the A?

 

[bob77]

Here's what I would favor.....


Scuderi & Greene being sent to Ontario to mentor our AHL D.... That situation might actually be beneficial to cap space, but I'm no rules lawyer. Then.....



McNabb / Doughty

Muzzin / Martinez

Forbort / Gravel


.....which leaves Gilbert & Trotman as the designated "healthy scratch" defensemen.

As a team, we've walked ourselves then into an AHL situation that gives AHL coaches some very experienced NHL vets, so then what does that mean for the franchise that prouds itself on developing players in the A?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Here's what I would favor.....


Scuderi & Greene being sent to Ontario to mentor our AHL D.... That situation might actually be beneficial to cap space, but I'm no rules lawyer. Then.....



McNabb / Doughty

Muzzin / Martinez

Forbort / Gravel


.....which leaves Gilbert & Trotman as the designated "healthy scratch" defensemen.

I agree with THrice that my worry is about the 'experienced' d-men we still have. The organization is SAYING the right things, but I'm not sold that Scuderi will be waived, and I say there's little to NO chance Greene is waived. Then again, we run into other concerns, like I doubt Gilbert got signed to be a scratch nor did the org trade for Trotman to be a reserve player, he's either playing big minutes in the AHL or NHL. There are a lot of redundancies, which is good, but I'm not sure what to make of the organization's thinking, as they're saying one thing but the past shows quite another...

I still feel like there are trades made over the summer to thin that out a bit, but there's still going to be a crapton of competition at camp. That's good. But there are still a lot of redundant d-men for depth spots. That's good to an extent. If we end up losing a younger d-man for nothing, I might snap.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Defenders take a long time to develop. Unless you have talent like Doughty, its going to be a long road ahead. Look at how many people labeled Hickey a bust, he is now a solid Defender for NYI.

such a great point. this is one reason I was hoping that with this supposed "new style, re-invent, moving forward" statement by DL, that
DS would be replaced. I just do not see how DS changes in terms of style PLUS giving the rookies playing time and sticking with them.

Not many complained when Hickey was lost (except the pick was wasted, but he will not amount to much) and he has done well.
He would be 2nd paring here now.

I fear we will see the same become of Forbort...one who could do well here but may not get the chance. Signing Gilbert and Trotman, seemingly make it almost impossible for DS to go with Gravel and Forbort - EVEN IF they play well. He will choose Gilbert, even if Gilbert does not play as well as Gravel and Forbort, because of his experience.

Can a young player make it with the Kings? Yes, but it's much more difficult to. Forbort would have probably played last year on most teams and probably have done well.

Since McBain and Schenn were let go, understand at least 1 signing.
Wish that would have only been Trotman, as he is young, has experience and has some promise to be a 3rd pairing...whereas Gilbert has had injuries and not the player he was even 2-3 years ago.
Ehrhoff part 2 all over again.

 

[Prince]

“Now you look at him, he’s on the cusp of being a full-time NHL player,†Yanetti added. “He’s got a Calder Cup Championship that he was a factor in winning. The kid has shown intangibles. He’s shown drive. I think you can tell by how excited I get talking about him. That kid is a story. You just don’t see—those are the type of guys who end up in Europe or the ECHL. Those are the type of guys who find the lowest common denominator of their potential. But here we are, eight months later, he’s on the way to finding the highest cusp of his potential. That’s a cool story.â€

Did anyone else read this and think..."Bub Holloway... I am talking about you. Oh, what could have been"