What tier is lafrienere on?

[bert]

Lets see how physical a game he can play against men. Wingers also take way less time to make an impact at the NHL level than defenders. Either way, its about what they were as prospects. Lafreniere isn't going to be playing a heavily physical game at the NHL level. We aren't talking about a Jamie Benn type winger here.

I'd say "might not be franchise" level is a pretty clear statement, considering Matthews and Eichel are pretty damn clearly franchise level. Especially when you refer back to what he said about Matthews, Eichel, and Dahlin at their draft dates.

Well we might be talking a Peter Forsberg like impact. They are about the same size and play a very similar style game.

I think its conjecture you are using to prove your point he didnt say those players thats your opinion. Lafreniere was just as good if not better than Eichel in his draft year who is also a player who people question his character. I'll reiterate you are selling him short.

 

[93LEAFS]

Well we might be talking a Peter Forsberg like impact. They are about the same size and play a very similar style game.

I think its conjecture you are using to prove your point he didnt say those players thats your opinion. Lafreniere was just as good if not better than Eichel in his draft year who is also a player who people question his character. I'll reiterate you are selling him short.

No, he said he might not be a franchise player, unless you think McDavid is the only franchise player in the league, and that Matthews/Eichel aren't (or weren't viewed as such at there draft date). I'd say that it is pretty direct, and not conjecture. Unless you think Eichel wasn't viewed as a franchise player at the time of his draft.

He doesn't have close to the vision Forsberg displayed or that level of physicality. This honestly reminds me of people trying to compare Kakko to Forsberg last year. If you think I'm selling him short, I think you are dramatically overrating him, and I'd say the same thing if the Leafs won the lotto. I think he'll be around an 85-90 point winger. Eichel was better in his draft year. He was the first draft-eligible to win the Hobby Baker. Eichel had higher projected ceiling due to his physical tools, combined with his hockey-IQ. He was much more proven than someone like Byfield, who many believe had the higher ceiling that Laf, but has a much lower floor. Eichel had way less questions about his floor at the NHL level.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

No, he said he might not be a franchise player, unless you think McDavid is the only franchise player in the league, and that Matthews/Eichel aren't (or weren't viewed as such at there draft date). I'd say that it is pretty direct, and not conjecture. Unless you think Eichel wasn't viewed as a franchise player at the time of his draft.

He doesn't have close to the vision Forsberg displayed or that level of physicality. This honestly reminds me of people trying to compare Kakko to Forsberg last year. If you think I'm selling him short, I think you are dramatically overrating him, and I'd say the same thing if the Leafs won the lotto. I think he'll be around an 85-90 point winger. Eichel was better in his draft year. He was the first draft-eligible to win the Hobby Baker. Eichel had higher projected ceiling due to his physical tools, combined with his hockey-IQ. He was much more proven than someone like Byfield, who many believe had the higher ceiling that Laf, but has a much lower floor. Eichel had way less questions about his floor at the NHL level.

The only "knock" I see about Lafreniere is the position he plays and how a winger can't control the game (theoretically, though Kane kind of proves otherwise) as much as a center can. If he was a natural center instead of a winger, I don't see his upside being any lower than most of the guys not named McDavid.

 

[93LEAFS]

The only "knock" I see about Lafreniere is the position he plays and how a winger can't control the game (theoretically, though Kane kind of proves otherwise) as much as a center can. If he was a natural center instead of a winger, I don't see his upside being any lower than most of the guys not named McDavid.

Except he is a winger, and we don't know how his game would translate if asked to take on the responsibility of a center.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Is he even a better prospect than Taylor Hall? Serious question, I haven't seen too much of him.

 

[bert]

No, he said he might not be a franchise player, unless you think McDavid is the only franchise player in the league, and that Matthews/Eichel aren't (or weren't viewed as such at there draft date). I'd say that it is pretty direct, and not conjecture. Unless you think Eichel wasn't viewed as a franchise player at the time of his draft.

He doesn't have close to the vision Forsberg displayed or that level of physicality. This honestly reminds me of people trying to compare Kakko to Forsberg last year. If you think I'm selling him short, I think you are dramatically overrating him, and I'd say the same thing if the Leafs won the lotto. I think he'll be around an 85-90 point winger. Eichel was better in his draft year. He was the first draft-eligible to win the Hobby Baker. Eichel had higher projected ceiling due to his physical tools, combined with his hockey-IQ. He was much more proven than someone like Byfield, who many believe had the higher ceiling that Laf, but has a much lower floor. Eichel had way less questions about his floor at the NHL level.

Forsberg wasnt considered as good a prospect as Lafreniere at the time of the draft. Stylistically they play a similar game. He is also a much better prospect than Kakko, i never compared him to forsberg. Eichel wasnt better in his draft year, he wasnt close to as good at the WJC and they had comparable years as you can get when looking at college and Major jr. Lafreniere literally won every single possible award this year what more do you want from him?

 

[93LEAFS]

Forsberg wasnt considered as good a prospect as Lafreniere at the time of the draft. Stylistically they play a similar game. He is also a much better prospect than Kakko, i never compared him to forsberg. Eichel wasnt better in his draft year, he wasnt close to as good at the WJC and they had comparable years as you can get when looking at college and Major jr. Lafreniere literally won every single possible award this year what more do you want from him?

More physical tools. That's what separates him from the Eichel/Dahlin/Matthews and MacKinnon as a prospect for me. All 3 of those forwards had very clear projectable traits when looking towards the NHL where you could say they would be top 10 in the league pretty much the minute they got in, to combine with high hockey-iq, along with ridiculous resumes. Eichel and MacKinnon had ridiculous speed/strength combo's allowing the to drive center ice at will. Matthews had a ridiculous shot/goal scoring instincts to combine with a very high-end strength/puck control game. Lafreniere has a very complete game, and great-IQ which makes him fairly safe as the #1 pick, but I don't see the clear projectable physical traits that make him likely to be as dominant as those guys.

What Eichel did in the NCAA at 18 was more impressive than what Laf did in the QMJHL at 18. We've seen similar level of dominance at the 17/18 group in the QMJHL this decade (Drouin) while we haven't seen what Eichel did in decades (since Kariya).

 

[bert]

More physical tools. That's what separates him from the Eichel/Dahlin/Matthews and MacKinnon as a prospect for me. All 3 of those forwards had very clear projectable traits when looking towards the NHL where you could say they would be top 10 in the league pretty much the minute they got in, to combine with high hockey-iq, along with ridiculous resumes. Eichel and MacKinnon had ridiculous speed/strength combo's allowing the to drive center ice at will. Matthews had a ridiculous shot/goal scoring instincts to combine with a very high-end strength/puck control game. Lafreniere has a very complete game, and great-IQ which makes him fairly safe as the #1 pick, but I don't see the clear projectable physical traits that make him likely to be as dominant as those guys.

What Eichel did in the NCAA at 18 was more impressive than what Laf did in the QMJHL at 18. We've seen similar level of dominance at the 17/18 group in the QMJHL this decade (Drouin) while we haven't seen what Eichel did in decades (since Kariya).

Well Drouin didnt win best player in the CHL back to back years so its not the same thing. Lafreniere was much better at the WJC than Eichel, the only reason anyone would distinctly have him over Lafreniere would be because he plays center. Eichel doesnt have Lafrenieres compete, maturity or hockey IQ. He has better physical tools no doubt, I put more weight in hockey IQ i think its the most important trait in a player. Watched them both very close id personally take Lafreniere I think he is a winner and plays the game the right way and makes sure his team is always in the battle. I dont think you can say the same thing about Eichel.

 

[93LEAFS]

Well Drouin didnt win best player in the CHL back to back years so its not the same thing. Lafreniere was much better at the WJC than Eichel, the only reason anyone would distinctly have him over Lafreniere would be because he plays center. Eichel doesnt have Lafrenieres compete, maturity or hockey IQ. He has better physical tools no doubt, I put more weight in hockey IQ i think its the most important trait in a player.

But, Eichel has very high hockey-IQ, I don't think Laf's is that much further ahead. I put hockey-IQ very high too, which is why I'd take Perfetti at 4, and I wouldn't scoff at someone taking him 2. I just think when you are comparing him to the top prospects of the decade, the fact the 3 forwards I pointed to had ridiculous physical tools to combine with great hockey-IQ knocks him back a tier. I mean, Drouin had a great chance of winning it two years in a row, and arguably would have if he didn't miss so much of the season for injuries, Lightning training camp and WJC. Plus, no one in the QMJHL really had a comparable year to Mantha this year.

 

[Ignite111]

It's going to be funny how all the people on the edge of their seats before the draft now don't think he's that good.

Yea guys come on he’s going to the rangers now. Guys gonna be the next Gretzky

 

[Ignite111]

Really not sure what these tiers are. Hype he’s below Tavares above Kane and stammer.

As far as potential it’s obviously hard to tell but can definitely see him in a few year being up there with Matthews

 

[boredmale]

The 7th tier

Honestly though where would Lafrienere rate against Jack Hughes? Personally if they close to equal I think Rangers should try make a trade given I think they need a center more then a winger

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I tend to go by when sports media start to report on them.

Connor/Sidney - 12/13 years old if not earlier

Second tier being 15-16 years old

Third tier being 17

Then the rest with the "decision at the draft" with who had the best draft year season.

I'd put Laffy in the not generational but major impact player ala Mack/Matthews, granted those are some big shoes to fill.

At worst I see him at the Hallsy 3rd tier level.

Crosby was interview by hockey night in Canada at 5 years old

 

[Voight]

He's got more hockey sense and a better shot than Hall.

I don't disagree, but I was talking in more of a potential talk. I.E. his ceiling.

 

[93LEAFS]

Crosby was interview by hockey night in Canada at 5 years old

Mitch Marner had a CP24 piece at 4. I can think of busts who got crazy coverage early on.

Reporting is a pointless measurement, especially for guys who come from places with limited hockey culture (Matthews, Kopitar, Seth Jones, etc).

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Except he is a winger, and we don't know how his game would translate if asked to take on the responsibility of a center.

Wasn't my point. My point is there's always a knock against wingers, and that's the only "knock" I see against Lafreniere compared to a lot of players not named McDavid.

 

[93LEAFS]

Wasn't my point. My point is there's always a knock against wingers, and that's the only "knock" I see against Lafreniere compared to a lot of players not named McDavid.

I'd say the gap in physical tools compared to Matthews/MacKinnon/Eichel is pretty clear.

 

[Halla]

Below that. also bump Matthews up a tier. kinda weird to have him paired with a 28 year old undrafted guy that hasnt yet hit am34s worst season goals wise


Lafreniere comes in somewhere around Mackinnon hype. not as much as matthews or mcdavid, but more than say hughes or yak

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'd say the gap in physical tools compared to Matthews/MacKinnon/Eichel is pretty clear.

And? Not having as good a shot as Matthews or not being an explosive skater like MacKinnon doesn't automatically mean both those areas are a knock on Lafreniere. The only knock (ie. perceived weakness) on Lafreniere's game is the position he plays and how much he can control play from that spot at the NHL level.

 

[93LEAFS]

And? Not having as good a shot as Matthews or not being an explosive skater like MacKinnon doesn't automatically mean both those areas are a knock on Lafreniere. The only knock (ie. perceived weakness) on Lafreniere's game is the position he plays and how much he can control play from that spot at the NHL level.

Except those abilities give them very clear game-breaking abilities, that are immediately transferable to being impact NHLers (although MacKinnon had bumps in the road). Just because they aren't knocks on Lafreniere, doesn't mean you should ignore that those guys had very clear physical traits that projected to be elite from the start.

 

[SFKingshomer]

A more physical Simon Gagne is where I see him. PPG good 2 way winger.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Except those abilities give them very clear game-breaking abilities, that are immediately transferable to being impact NHLers (although MacKinnon had bumps in the road). Just because they aren't knocks on Lafreniere, doesn't mean you should ignore that those guys had very clear physical traits that projected to be elite from the start.

So because Tavares skated like Bambi on ice and his shot was about as hard as mine or yours is, we should assume that means his mental gifts (ie. vision, hockey IQ, etc.) wouldn't be enough to compare him to guys with better physical gifts?

I just think you're vastly underselling Lafreniere all because he doesn't have that one elite physical gift (though I'd argue he does have an elite physical gift when it comes to passing) that guys like Matthews or MacKinnon do.

 

[Ben White]

Well we might be talking a Peter Forsberg like impact. They are about the same size and play a very similar style game.

I think its conjecture you are using to prove your point he didnt say those players thats your opinion. Lafreniere was just as good if not better than Eichel in his draft year who is also a player who people question his character. I'll reiterate you are selling him short.

Well no...

Lafreniere WJC highlights:


Forsberg WJC highlights:


And these are only highlights from 3 of Forsberg’s games that tournament.

 

[bert]

Well no...

Lafreniere WJC highlights:


Forsberg WJC highlights:

You dont believe he has the potential to be an impact player like Forsberg? Pretty hard to compare WJC era's but both were terrific.

 

[Ben White]

You dont believe he has the potential to be an impact player like Forsberg? Pretty hard to compare WJC era's but both were terrific.

I can’t see him being anything close to Forsberg’s level no. McDavid, Crosby that’s Forsberg level, pretty high expectations to put on Laferniere.