What is the story behind MIN losing the North Stars to DAL? | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

What is the story behind MIN losing the North Stars to DAL?

JT Kreider

FIRE GORDIE CLARK
Dec 24, 2010
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With no knowledge of the state of hockey in the State of Hockey in the 90s-- or the financials of such a random destination in Texas?

For Minnesota fans with memories of that time period, what was the reaction to the move? Did this come out of nowhere as a total shock or something that had been in the works for some time and was expected?

Did NS fans pick a new team? Follow the team to Dallas? I'm sure the quick success that team found in the late 90s had to hurt. I doubt just stop following hockey altogether was common. Was there promise of getting an expansion team right off the bat?
 
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Several reasons were cited for the relocation, including poor attendance during a string of losing seasons, the failure to reach deals for a new arena in either Minneapolis or Saint Paul, and a sexual harassment lawsuit against Green that resulted in his wife threatening to leave him unless he moved the team.

I believe the latest was the main one
 
Dallas isn't as "random" as you may think. The D-FW Metroplex is one of the largest urban areas in the entire country. Theres also tons of major companies headquartered there and sponsorships to be had, hence why it was an attractive option.

Its not surprising the league or any owner looking to relocate considered Dallas as an option.
 
Several reasons were cited for the relocation, including poor attendance during a string of losing seasons, the failure to reach deals for a new arena in either Minneapolis or Saint Paul, and a sexual harassment lawsuit against Green that resulted in his wife threatening to leave him unless he moved the team.

I believe the latest was the main one

I am not an expert in the North Stars history but I highly doubt the NHL would accept a relocate just because of a owner’s wife’s threats
 
Met Center seats were dope. Problem was, you could see them when there was a game going.
Met_Chairs_with_Fans.jpg
 
One of the greatest memories of the North Stars was the 1991 Stanley Cup Finals against the Penguins.

That was probably one of the best series I’ve watched, Mario Lemieux was a beast which couldn’t be stopped, kinda felt bad for North Stars goalie Jon Casey.
 
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Also the North Stars in their final year of existence changed their jerseys and the Stars just pretty much continued with the same exact design??
 
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Moved to the History forum.

Note that posting a Wikipedia post (with zero elaboration) is flaming ( and it should be obvious why).
 
One of the greatest memories of the North Stars was the 1991 Stanley Cup Finals against the Penguins.

That was probably one of the best series I’ve watched, Mario Lemieux was a beast which couldn’t be stopped, kinda felt bad for North Stars goalie Jon Casey.
Then that team was gutted when San Jose was granted a franchise, as the Gund brothers, who were the outgoing minority owners of the North Stars, somehow claimed and were granted the right to take a large portion of the roster with them.

North Star fans getting the shaft

Ye

Yes, but I have no idea if the design change had anything to do with relocation, maybe just coincidence
Not coincidence, the move was already planned. Norm was forcing his way out of town already.

Dallas isn't as "random" as you may think. The D-FW Metroplex is one of the largest urban areas in the entire country. Theres also tons of major companies headquartered there and sponsorships to be had, hence why it was an attractive option.

Its not surprising the league or any owner looking to relocate considered Dallas as an option.
There was this brand new arena already built and waiting and offered as a home... the Target Center. Norm pissed and moaned that wasn't good enough, they deserved a building of their own, not sharing a brand new arena with the new basketball team in town.

Again, doing everything he could to force the move. Never took any option to keep them here seriously.
 
View attachment 629013Also the North Stars in their final year of existence changed their jerseys and the Stars just pretty much continued with the same exact design??
they changed their sweater design/logo prior to the 91-92 season which was their second to last in minny. considering green had relocation on his mind pretty much once he purchased the team, i'd say the rebrand was tied to the potential move
 
The anger toward owner Norm Green was definitely palpable. When the move was going down in ‘93, they were selling “Norm Greed” t-shirts. On the back of those shirts:

Top Ten Reasons His Professional Hockey Team Can’t Make It In Minnesota

10. Too many parking spots used by “MALL” shoppers
9. City of Bloomington wouldn’t allow mural of owner on outside of stadium
8. Luxury suites much better in Dallas
7. Minnesota Lottery commission denied owners request for the “NORM” scratch-n-win ticket
6. Road salt too harsh on ROLLS ROYCE
5. More knowledgeable hockey fans in Dallas than in the entire state of Minnesota
4. Women in Minnesota don’t wear enough make-up
3. Northwest doesn’t fly direct from Minneapolis to Palm Springs anymore
2. Sids “not a close personal friend” of owner

1. Owner thinks he’s GOD, wants to be closer to religious cults in Waco!!

😄
 
The Minnesota timber wolves expansion team sucked every last dollar from the Minnesota sports fan.
 
One of the greatest memories of the North Stars was the 1991 Stanley Cup Finals against the Penguins.

That was probably one of the best series I’ve watched, Mario Lemieux was a beast which couldn’t be stopped, kinda felt bad for North Stars goalie Jon Casey.
I was reviewing this series recently on YouTube, and it was actually very close and could have gone either way. I'd forgotten how close it was, probably because of the butt-whipping in game six.

One wonders if things could have been different if the North Stars had won the '91 Cup.
 
I was reviewing this series recently on YouTube, and it was actually very close and could have gone either way. I'd forgotten how close it was, probably because of the butt-whipping in game six.

One wonders if things could have been different if the North Stars had won the '91 Cup.
Games 1 though 5 were some of the best competitive hockey I’ve seen played. Game 6 was a one sided pens blowout.

Casey was standing on his head though most of those games but as the series went on, the Penguins and Mario Lemieux imposed their will on the tired North Stars defense.

If the North Stars had won the cup perhaps things could have been different and they might have gotten a new arena but it seems the wheels for moving the franchise were already in motion behind the seen even before the North Stars went to the Finals against the Pens.

It was really sad when the North Stars left the state of hockey as it took awhile to except the Stars in Dallas.
 
I posted this and I think it was removed in the move:

The Adam Raider book, Frozen in Time: A Minnesota North Stars History is a great book on the North Stars, and goes into detail the teams move to Dallas. It's also being published in paperback this year, so should be more easily accessible for people.
 
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Then that team was gutted when San Jose was granted a franchise, as the Gund brothers, who were the outgoing minority owners of the North Stars, somehow claimed and were granted the right to take a large portion of the roster with them.

North Star fans getting the shaft

it was shady af, but did the north stars really lose much of value here?

looking at the dispersal draft list, the only guys off their 1991 roster that were lost were neil wilkinson and shane churla. churla they immediately got back by trading kelly kisio, whom they got in the expansion draft, to SJ. wilkinson was a good stay at home guy, but in the expansion draft, the north stars got dave babych, whom they swapped in a three way for craig ludwig. even though he was thirty, ludwig went on to play eight seasons with the stars franchise and was key to hatcher and matvichuk's development. wilkinson ran into injury problems and ended up retiring the same year ludwig did.

it does seem weird that the north stars had to give three goalies to san jose. one was a high quality guy, irbe, the other two not so much (brian hayward at the end of his career, and jarmo myllys). but even there, i don't think the north stars really lost much. in the offseason, minny trades a 5th and an 8th to get darcy wakaluk, who was a capable backup. irbe doesn't become anything for another two years, at which point minny has traded jon casey for andy moog, who kept the crease warm for a couple years until they get belfour as a free agent.

in retrospect, i think the north stars actually do better giving away all those bit parts to san jose and replacing them through the expansion draft.

their first pick was rob ramage, who was broken down and not very useful

second pick was babych, who became ludwig

third pick was depth defenceman allen pederson, to replace the other depth defencemen they lost

fourth and sixth picks were charlie huddy and randy gilhen, who were packaged to get todd elik from LA. elik was later traded for brent gilchrist, who gave them half a decade of solid play as a quintessential bob gainey player

fifth pick was kelly kisio, who was swapped out to bring back churla

all to say, the downfall of that '91 north stars team isn't that they lost 24 players out of their system to the sharks so much as that team made its run on the back of a lot of old players that went on to immediately regress: broten, propp, bobby smith, gaetan duchesne, stew gavin. similar to the hurricanes after their cup run: you subtract recchi, weight, and matt cullen, and stillman misses half the year and suddenly you go from a deep three line attack to just an average bubble team.
 
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This is weird.... Sexual harassment with team movement? WTF?

The harassment occurred within the NS organization. Effectively she was saying he needed to choose between keeping her around and keeping the office girls around.

Not quite the same scenario once you get into the details, but the Charlotte Hornets had a similar situation with George Shinn. In both situations the owner was in the middle of a questionable campaign for public funds when he disgraced himself with a sexual harassment scandal, and the end result was public rejection and relocation of the team.
 
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So, why didn't they become The Lone Stars?
Or is "Lone"incompatible with a plural?

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dallas lone stars was a popular rumour at the time.

related factoid: when the grizzlies moved to memphis, there was talk they would be called the memphis express, because the city is a fedex hub. but fedex ended hp being the name of the arena instead.
 
The NHL at that time I feel really wanted a team in Texas anyway and had the North Stars stayed then the league would've expanded into Dallas by the late 90s

Green actually wanted to take the team to Anaheim but the league stepped in and said no since they were already planning on Disney launching the Ducks. He relented and the league allowed him to move the North Stars anywhere he wanted

Their arena was an issue. Only sat 15,000 (if that, maybe less) and was lacking in luxury boxes. I know for a while they wanted to develop the arena around it with shops and a fan experience but nothing ever really came to fruition. The team itself throughout the 70s and 80s was inconsistent, not putrid or anything, but never really had any prolonged stretches where they were a true Cup threat (their two runs of 81 and 91 came out of nowhere)...still for "The State of Hockey"...they really didn't draw as well as they should've for a hockey crazed state.

Imho more could've been done and should've been done to keep them in Minnesota. Dallas should've gotten the expansion team
 
...still for "The State of Hockey"...they really didn't draw as well as they should've for a hockey crazed state.

Imho more could've been done and should've been done to keep them in Minnesota. Dallas should've gotten the expansion team
Here's the biggest issue with Minnesota imo. They value the state hockey tournament like Texas values hs football. Its always about the local town team wining states after the kids grew up playing youth hockey there. Same with college in a way. The Gophers barely ever carry any non Minnesota players. I always felt like the non interest in pro hockey / the we gotta get American/Minnesota born players is why the NHL hasnt gotten as big as it should there. If you look at my point above regarding Texas its a football strong hold but a team like the Dallas Cowboys in their glory years was about fielding the best team possible I highly doubt birthplace was a huge factor. And if we wanna take it to traditional hockey markets in the US look at Boston and Detroit both areas have turned out alot of good nhl players but if you take the top 5 players in each organizations history you wont find any hometown guys. This is why I think the state of hockey mantra has really hurt both the North Stars and the Wild although I think the Wild went really overboard with it
 
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