What does Marchand need to be 1st ballot HHOFer?

[Fantomas]

Why is Theo Fluery not in? They had very similar careers. Why isn't Alex Mogilny in? After seeing some posts here and looking at their stats how does Marchand get in and not them?

Fleury is probably not in because of his reputation. But even then Marchand's four-year run between 2016-2020 is better than Fleury's peak. Mogilny has a case but is inconsistent and lacks a strong playoff run.

The Hall is rather inconsistent with the kinds of players they let in. You can make arguments for a lot of guys since they let in countless undeserving and, at best, borderline players from the 80s like Bernie Federko and Michel Goulet.

 

[Jumptheshark]

/Fleury is probably not in because of his reputation. But even then Marchand's four-year run between 2016-2020 is better than Fleury's peak. Mogilny has a case but is inconsistent and lacks a strong playoff run.

The Hall is rather inconsistent with the kinds of players they let in. You can make arguments for a lot of guys since they let in countless undeserving and, at best, borderline players from the 80s like Bernie Federko and Michel Goulet.

We are taking careers and not snap shots

But if you want snap shots

Fleury 12 season best to worst per stats
Goals
51-43-43-34-33-31-30-30-29-29-27-24
Assists
66-53-51-50-49-45-44-40-39-38-35-29
PTS
104-100-96-85-78-74-73-69-67-66-64-63
PMS
216-197-186-157-136-133-122-112-112-104-88-77

Marchand best to worst 12 season by stats
goals
39-37-36-34-32-29-29-28-28-25-24-21
Assists
64-59-51-48-46-46-40-38-28-27-24-20
Pts
100-87-85-85-80-69-67-67-61-55-53-42
PMS
97-96-95-90-87-82-81-78-74-64-63-51

Not sure where you are getting Marchand was better in a 4 year prime than Fleury

Marchand top 5 years purely on pts
100-87-85-85-80=437 pts
Fluery
104-100-96-85-78=463 pts

FLeury had more 50+ goals season and 100+ pt season than Marchand.

Anyone who says Marchand is a first ballot hall of famer needs to look at Fluery not being in. The are pretty much the same player with the same reputation ON THE ICE

 

[PB37]

We are taking careers and not snap shots

But if you want snap shots

Fleury 12 season best to worst per stats
Goals
51-43-43-34-33-31-30-30-29-29-27-24
Assists
66-53-51-50-49-45-44-40-39-38-35-29
PTS
104-100-96-85-78-74-73-69-67-66-64-63
PMS
216-197-186-157-136-133-122-112-112-104-88-77

Marchand best to worst 12 season by stats
goals
39-37-36-34-32-29-29-28-28-25-24-21
Assists
64-59-51-48-46-46-40-38-28-27-24-20
Pts
100-87-85-85-80-69-67-67-61-55-53-42
PMS
97-96-95-90-87-82-81-78-74-64-63-51

Not sure where you are getting Marchand was better in a 4 year prime than Fleury

Marchand top 5 years purely on pts
100-87-85-85-80=437 pts
Fluery
104-100-96-85-78=463 pts

FLeury had more 50+ goals season and 100+ pt season than Marchand.

Anyone who says Marchand is a first ballot hall of famer needs to look at Fluery not being in. The are pretty much the same player with the same reputation ON THE ICE

Fluery has one All Star finish to Marchand's four which is fairly significant.

 

[Fantomas]

We are taking careers and not snap shots

But if you want snap shots

Fleury 12 season best to worst per stats
Goals
51-43-43-34-33-31-30-30-29-29-27-24
Assists
66-53-51-50-49-45-44-40-39-38-35-29
PTS
104-100-96-85-78-74-73-69-67-66-64-63
PMS
216-197-186-157-136-133-122-112-112-104-88-77

Marchand best to worst 12 season by stats
goals
39-37-36-34-32-29-29-28-28-25-24-21
Assists
64-59-51-48-46-46-40-38-28-27-24-20
Pts
100-87-85-85-80-69-67-67-61-55-53-42
PMS
97-96-95-90-87-82-81-78-74-64-63-51

Not sure where you are getting Marchand was better in a 4 year prime than Fleury

These are just raw stats. Adjust for context (e.g., looking at adjusted goals/points/goals created), and Marchand is just way more consistently good. He's also aging better.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

A Hart or Lindsay, maybe.

How many guys got in first chance with Marchand's numbers and no hardware?

 

[archangel2]

These are just raw stats. Adjust for context (e.g., looking at adjusted goals/points/goals created), and Marchand is just way more consistently good. He's also aging better.

This is a term I despise and is very subjective

Fluery has one All Star finish to Marchand's four which is fairly significant.

For me all star anything means nothing and is FAR from being significant

 

[Machinehead]

1st ballot????

He needs a different career to be 1st ballot.

 

[Fantomas]

This is a term I despise and is very subjective

Everything's subjective

 

[Pablo El Perro]

He'll get in some time after Mogilny and Elias

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

A nose job?

Can I get away with that though...........

I think he's HHOF first ballot. Hate the guy (in the best way you can, aka wish he was on my team) but he's definitely worthy.

 

[PB37]

For me all star anything means nothing and is FAR from being significant

It means you've been recognized as one of the two best at your position at the end of the year. I think it can be a very telling award, especially when comparing stars across generation gaps to compare how they faired against their peer group.

 

[nbwingsfan]

This is a term I despise and is very subjective




For me all star anything means nothing and is FAR from being significant

Why would being one of top two players at your position mean nothing to you? Lol

 

[GeeoffBrown]

I feel like Marchand is an interesting and controversial character and that alone could get him in the hall. I think you could certainly say he is worthy of the Hall of Fame if you put an emphasis on the "fame" aspect, since everyone's got an opinion on Brad Marchand

 

[Voight]

4xtop ten in scoring is not enough for a first ballot HOFer. He had some good years and I think placed Selke top ten once. He's an agitator and won a cup. That's good enough to get you on the plane but he's not flying first class.

Depends on the year. If it's a weaker year, he will get in the first year hes eligible.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Depends on the year. If it's a weaker year, he will get in the first year hes eligible.

I wouldn’t put him in. Not first year.

 

[NVious]

>Finally becomes captain
>Kills Bruins

Maybe he should get in.

 

[ToDavid]

I feel like Marchand is an interesting and controversial character and that alone could get him in the hall. I think you could certainly say he is worthy of the Hall of Fame if you put an emphasis on the "fame" aspect, since everyone's got an opinion on Brad Marchand

Agree with this. I think people are forgetting how much image and reputation plays into this.

With respect, Shea Weber is not a first ballot hall of famer. But he's the posterboy of the blue collar, rough and tumble, leave it all out on the ice, Canadian defenseman. That image played a huge part I'm sure. And I don't know that this is completely wrong. Like you said, it's the hall of fame, not the hall of stats.

Marchand, love him or hate him, has been an infamous figure in the game for over a decade. On top of that he's got an extended period of elite play and a cup, and while he was a rookie he wasn't at all an insignificant part of that run.

I don't think he's first ballot, but I don't think he's as far off as a lot of people think.

 

[SherVaughn30]

Easy, lick the committees shoes!

 

[Voodoo Child]

At this point in his career, nothing really. A Conn Smythe would have helped but he's probably going to get there in a weak year if he gets 1000, which he probably will next year

 

[HockeyVirus]

For me all star anything means nothing and is FAR from being significant

Are you confusing the all star game with the NHLs first and 2nd allstar teams?

 

[Sol]

Lick the right people at the right time.

Facts. Good top almost got someone to become the president.

 

[archangel2]

Are you confusing the all star game with the NHLs first and 2nd allstar teams?

Both.. Reporters vote for the year end all stars and the system had its problems and all star games it is often based upon what players will actually show up and play.