Speculation: What does Kyle Dubas do with less than 7 million dollars?

[Bomber0104]

didn't realize Trouba cloned himself. You forgot Liljegren, and yes our group was better. They limited chances better and high danger chances better. results vs names.

Rangers: 2.49GA/G (2nd in the NHL)
Leafs: 3.07GA/G (19th in the NHL)

Results he says

*braces for a torrent of meaningless blogger stats*

 

[Morbo]

Rangers: 2.49GA/G (2nd in the NHL)
Leafs: 3.07GA/G (19th in the NHL)

Results he says

*braces for a torrent of meaningless blogger stats*

hardly takes that. answer is between the pipes, plain and simple.

 

[Bomber0104]

hardly takes that. answer is between the pipes, plain and simple.

The usual default excuse.

I imagine if Campbell played with Carolina (1st in GA/GP) this year he'd have similar numbers to Freddie.

Probably not quite Igor's numbers if he were on the Rangers, but fairly close, in that scenario.

 

[colchar]

I imagine his thought process will be the same as every other offseason, and we'll reap the rewards.

115 point regular season team. Does it get any better than that.

You're kidding right?

 

[Morbo]

The usual default excuse.

I imagine if Campbell played with Carolina (1st in GA/GP) this year he'd have similar numbers to Freddie.

Probably not quite Igor's numbers if he were on the Rangers, but fairly close, in that scenario.

Are you trying to say the Leafs didn't get bottom of the barrel goaltending this season?

 

[Bomber0104]

Are you trying to say the Leafs didn't get bottom of the barrel goaltending this season?

Bottom of the barrel? If Campbell was bottom of the barrel he wouldn't be getting the money he will in two weeks time from a team that actually has cap-space to afford a starter.

Maybe the backups, but I mean a team like the Rangers weren't getting stellar performance out of there's either.

The difference is definitely defence between the two teams, one team plays a cheat-the-zone all-out offensive system that stresses constant high risk plays to force rush opportunities and the other plays a typical conservative Gallant style..

One had top results in goals-against, the other was bottom-half in the league.

Results are results, and I'm not too concerned about shot-location charts because when it comes down to it, that really doesn't explain anything to do with how the puck crossed the goal line.

And it's also incredibly ignorant to suggest a fundamental stat like goals-against isn't a team-driven statistic.

Totally lazy to just lump that stat on the goalie.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Rangers: 2.49GA/G (2nd in the NHL)
Leafs: 3.07GA/G (19th in the NHL)

Results he says

*braces for a torrent of meaningless blogger stats*

You quoted goals against stats in response to someone talking about mitigating scoring chances. Do you not know the difference? Leafs were 19th in GA because their upper middle class D (10-13th range depending on stats) was harpooned by the 29th best goaltending.
This gets tiring after a while with you people

The usual default excuse.

I imagine if Campbell played with Carolina (1st in GA/GP) this year he'd have similar numbers to Freddie.

Probably not quite Igor's numbers if he were on the Rangers, but fairly close, in that scenario.

You imagine a lot of things it seems, doesn’t make any of it true

 

[Nylanderthal]

Bottom of the barrel? If Campbell was bottom of the barrel he wouldn't be getting the money he will in two weeks time from a team that actually has cap-space to afford a starter.

Maybe the backups, but I mean a team like the Rangers weren't getting stellar performance out of there's either.

The difference is definitely defence between the two teams, one team plays a cheat-the-zone all-out offensive system that stresses constant high risk plays to force rush opportunities and the other plays a typical conservative Gallant style..

One had top results in goals-against, the other was bottom-half in the league.

Results are results, and I'm not too concerned about shot-location charts because when it comes down to it, that really doesn't explain anything to do with how the puck crossed the goal line.

And it's also incredibly ignorant to suggest a fundamental stat like goals-against isn't a team-driven statistic.

Totally lazy to just lump that stat on the goalie.

The only teams that will overpay Campbell will be teams with cap space because they’re bad teams. You’re looking at buffalo jersey Detroit maybe.
The GA stat looks bad (lower/mediocre middle class) because the goaltending it self was literally bottom of the league in every measurable way. Unless mid season all star nominations are your thing

 

[Bomber0104]

You quoted goals against stats in response to someone talking about mitigating scoring chances. Do you not know the difference? Leafs were 19th in GA because their upper middle class D (10-13th range depending on stats) was harpooned by the 29th best goaltending.
This gets tiring after a while with you people

Goals-against are an actual stat, which directly impact the score and result of the game.

Who-shot-the-puck-closer-to-the-net heat maps do not, and are not a measure of defence, scoring chances, goaltending or any other lofty aspirations people on blogs and twitter may have.

"Mitigating scoring chances"

Those are very big words, I'm impressed, but pointing out where a shot is taken from tells you about 20% of the necessary information about how "dangerous" a shot really is.

 

[Bomber0104]

You imagine a lot of things it seems, doesn’t make any of it true

Overnight Freddie Andersen went from cast-away in Toronto to 4th in Vezina voting.

Campbell would have done just fine in front of a team like that and this shouldn't be a controversial statement since they're of similar quality.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Goals-against are an actual stat, which directly impact the score and result of the game.

Who-shot-the-puck-closer-to-the-net heat maps do not, and are not a measure of defence, scoring chances, goaltending or any other lofty aspirations people on blogs and twitter may have.

"Scoring chances"

Are you suggesting organizations don’t use some form of metrics to determine scoring chances and their quality? That they don’t bother isolating goaltending performance vs team D? They simply just look at GA/G and call it a day?
You probably still think pitcher wins & batting average are key stats for identifying quality baseball players as well.
The lazy thing to do is to just lump it all in together without any context.
It’s easier to just say you don’t understand.
Troglodyte.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Boeser contract
look

 

[Nylanderthal]

Overnight Freddie Andersen went from cast-away in Toronto to 4th in Vezina voting.

Campbell would have done just fine in front of a team like that and this shouldn't be a controversial statement since they're of similar quality.

He was cast away here because he quit on his team when they needed him most.
He did the same shit the season before being dumped here and pulled the same stunt this season in Carolina.
3 times he’s been unwilling to make himself available even though multiple organizations failed to discover any issues.
I’m glad he had a great regular season, although I thought that didn’t matter around here.

 

[Bomber0104]

Are you suggesting organizations don’t use some form of metrics to determine scoring chances and their quality? That they don’t bother isolating goaltending performance vs team D? They simply just look at GA/G and call it a day?
You probably still think pitcher wins & batting average are key stats for identifying quality baseball players as well.
The lazy thing to do is to just lump it all in together without any context.
It’s easier to just say you don’t understand.
Troglodyte.

Troglodyte? Someone's getting frustrated I see

I'm sure they do attempt to separate it but probably do so in a far more intelligent way than shot-location heat maps scraped from the nightly NHL.com data dump.

Just one example but any stat that values a shot from Hedman the same as one from Justin Holl is to be summarily laughed-at and dismissed.

Not only are you NOT doing that, you're accepting that as fact and also trying to make grandiose claims about "mitigating scoring chances" (big words!), goaltending, team-defence....all taken from a tiny snippet of raw junk data.

 

[leafsfan5]

What do you mean by the Leafs "pushing back"? The Leafs went ahead in the series 1-0, 2-1 and 3-2 with noticeable drop offs in play quality in Game 2 and 4 when they completely no showed to try and extend the series lead to 2x games. There was some minimal score effects at the end of each game, as well as grabbing the lead in Game 6, but the trend of the series was Toronto with the upper hand but unable to put Tampa away.

Especially alarming, they could have made the series 3-1 coming home, but Keefe hung up the "mission accomplished banner" 2-2 going home.

This was the biggest indictment on the coaching staff and the team imo. Such an obvious example of the complacency this team continuously shows. Game 4 was a murder when it should've been our chance to put the giant on its knees with a chance to knock them out at home

At the end of the day, the biggest thing Dubas does this offseason is solve the goaltending issue. But, if the complacency remains it won't matter and we won't go far

 

[Bomber0104]

He was cast away here because he quit on his team when they needed him most.
He did the same shit the season before being dumped here and pulled the same stunt this season in Carolina.
3 times he’s been unwilling to make himself available even though multiple organizations failed to discover any issues.
I’m glad he had a great regular season, although I thought that didn’t matter around here.

I don't care about your personal feelings toward Freddie Andersen.

My point was he went from average to Vezina quality jumping from Toronto (a not-so great defensive team) to Carolina (a very good defensive team).

Campbell's numbers would improve just the same if he somehow signed there this off-season.

Not controversial, and I'm not asking you for your feelings about either player.

Just how their statistics would respond to changing teams, given how fundamental stats like GAA, GA/GP, and even SV% are team-statistics, and don't just belong to goaltenders..

 

[Nylanderthal]

I don't care about your personal feelings toward Freddie Andersen.

My point was he went from average to Vezina quality jumping from Toronto (a not-so great defensive team) to Carolina (a very good defensive team).

Campbell's numbers would improve just the same if he somehow signed there this off-season.

Not controversial, and I'm not asking you for your feelings about either player.

Just how their statistics would respond to changing teams..

I wasn’t giving a personal opinion i was stating a fact. Facts are he quit on his teams making him unavailable on three occasions when the doctors were unable to find anything wrong.
He was cast aside here not because of performance alone, but because of what’s between the ears and how he’s unavailable to his team at the most crucial of times.
Like I said glad he had a good regular season, but I have heard by numerous posters on here that the regular season is meaningless in the end

 

[Bomber0104]

This was the biggest indictment on the coaching staff and the team imo. Such an obvious example of the complacency this team continuously shows. Game 4 was a murder when it should've been our chance to put the giant on its knees with a chance to knock them out at home

At the end of the day, the biggest thing Dubas does this offseason is solve the goaltending issue. But, if the complacency remains it won't matter and we won't go far

What if we have a defence AND goaltending issue?

I fail to see how there's not a lot more work to do in both of those departments.

I wasn’t giving a personal opinion i was stating a fact. Facts are he quit on his teams making him unavailable on three occasions when the doctors were unable to find anything wrong.
He was cast aside here not because of performance alone, but because of what’s between the ears and how he’s unavailable to his team at the most crucial of times.
Like I said glad he had a good regular season, but I have heard by numerous posters on here that the regular season is meaningless in the end

Once again, I'm not asking about your deep-seated feelings about Freddie as a person.

I'm asking how a goalie like Freddie was able to go from average in Toronto to Vezina calibre in Carolina.

I'm suggesting that a goalie like Jack would also be able to go from average to above-average in Toronto to similarly Vezina calibre in Carolina.

The difference is quite clearly the team playing in front of both of those teams.

Carolina is a top defensive squad, Toronto is average-to-below average, and the GA/GP , SV% , GAA suffers as a result of playing for this team versus that one..

This shouldn't be an argument but you're looking for one I guess because, reasons...

 

[LeafEgo]

Are you suggesting organizations don’t use some form of metrics to determine scoring chances and their quality? That they don’t bother isolating goaltending performance vs team D? They simply just look at GA/G and call it a day?
You probably still think pitcher wins & batting average are key stats for identifying quality baseball players as well.
The lazy thing to do is to just lump it all in together without any context.
It’s easier to just say you don’t understand.
Troglodyte.

This is a pretty weird and somewhat concerning comparison to bring up. Advanced stats work very well in baseball and very poorly in hockey for obvious reasons.

 

[Apex Predator]

This is a pretty weird and somewhat concerning comparison to bring up. Advanced stats work very well in baseball and very poorly in hockey for obvious reasons.

Unfortunately for the people that keep shoving those stats down our throats it’s not obvious to them.

 

[colchar]

The only teams that will overpay Campbell will be teams with cap space because they’re bad teams.

Teams have cap space because they're bad teams?

 

[Nylanderthal]

Teams have cap space because they're bad teams?

Generally bad teams don’t spend to the cap, thus they can overpay a guy like jack

 

[TGB]

Would trading Muzzin be worth it? He looked awfully slow for awhile there, but some people said he was looking good at times. I dunno. I have a hard time reading defensive prowess in hockey. That would free up a good bit of money though.

Advanced stats work very well in baseball

No, they absolutely do not. As I have proven, you don't need any of those stats to get a good read on how players perform. It's just that certain primary stats, not floating average stats which is what most advanced stats are, are more reliable because baseball statistics generally have 50% veracity which is really high.

 

[Morbo]

Bottom of the barrel? If Campbell was bottom of the barrel he wouldn't be getting the money he will in two weeks time from a team that actually has cap-space to afford a starter.

Maybe the backups, but I mean a team like the Rangers weren't getting stellar performance out of there's either.

The difference is definitely defence between the two teams, one team plays a cheat-the-zone all-out offensive system that stresses constant high risk plays to force rush opportunities and the other plays a typical conservative Gallant style..

One had top results in goals-against, the other was bottom-half in the league.

Results are results, and I'm not too concerned about shot-location charts because when it comes down to it, that really doesn't explain anything to do with how the puck crossed the goal line.

And it's also incredibly ignorant to suggest a fundamental stat like goals-against isn't a team-driven statistic.

Totally lazy to just lump that stat on the goalie.

what are you blathering about? I'm not the one trying to confuse team GA with goalie performance, that's you.

the Leafs were 22nd in team save percentage.

 

[thusk]

The usual default excuse.

I imagine if Campbell played with Carolina (1st in GA/GP) this year he'd have similar numbers to Freddie.

Probably not quite Igor's numbers if he were on the Rangers, but fairly close, in that scenario.

Toronto was 3rd in expected goal against
Ranger was 11th

Last season leafs finished 6th. Campbell looking great andersen had to play injured and his entire carreer he was trash when he was playing with an injury so pretty hard to evaluate

2 years ago leafs was 18th

So Yes i think the biggest difference was between pipe.