Speculation: What does Kyle Dubas do with less than 7 million dollars?

[Dekes For Days]

Toronto did push back sometimes but it was intermittent it seemed sporadic

We literally pushed back in every single instance, and we controlled play for large periods of time, so I'm not sure what you mean. We didn't go "ok get through this come back next game".

Your argument seems to boil down to the idea that we need to be completely dominant in 100% of the time after we go down in a game, or you consider us a team that rolls over and dies, even though Colorado (the team you contrasted us with) didn't do that at all, and neither did Tampa - the very team we were playing against. No team does. That's a wildly unrealistic expectation for a normal game, let alone a playoff game between two elite teams.

I think you're too focused on Toronto and don't notice that other teams are doing the exact same things.

They had an identity verus washington

What exactly do you think our "identity" was against Washington?

that series and team was different. Every year since then the intensity and the pulse seems go have gone down ever so slightly each year.

That series and team wasn't different, other than that we were a worse team. Our intensity and pulse hasn't decreased; it's increased. I think it's simply that how critical and impatient you are has grown ever so slightly each year. There was no pressure or expectation in the slightest against Washington, and that impacted perception.

 

[andora]

We literally pushed back in every single instance, and we controlled play for large periods of time, so I'm not sure what you mean. We didn't go "ok get through this come back next game".

Your argument seems to boil down to the idea that we need to be completely dominant in 100% of the time after we go down in a game, or you consider us a team that rolls over and dies, even though Colorado (the team you contrasted us with) didn't do that at all, and neither did Tampa - the very team we were playing against. No team does. That's a wildly unrealistic expectation for a normal game, let alone a playoff game between two elite teams.

I think you're too focused on Toronto and don't notice that other teams are doing the exact same things.

What exactly do you think our "identity" was against Washington?

That series and team wasn't different, other than that we were a worse team. Our intensity and pulse hasn't decreased; it's increased. I think it's simply that how critical and impatient you are has grown ever so slightly each year. There was no pressure or expectation in the slightest against Washington, and that impacted perception.

i was curious about the specific parts of games i remembered - and this is all 5on5 numbers.


game 2 - 2nd and 3rd periods

Period

TOI

SF

SA

SF%

SCF

SCA

SCF%

HDCF

HDCA

HDCF%

xGF

xGA

xGF%

1​

13:18​

6​

5​

54.55%​

6​

7​

46.15%​

3​

0​

100%​

0.7​

0.33​

67.64%​

2​

15:31​

7​

8​

46.67%​

8​

12​

40%​

1​

4​

20%​

0.53​

0.67​

44.25%​

3​

12:44​

9​

8​

52.94%​

5​

4​

55.56%​

1​

3​

25%​

0.4​

0.81​

32.81%​

Final

41:33:00​

22​

21​

51.16%​

19​

23​

45.24%​

5​

7​

41.67%​

1.63​

1.82​

47.21%​

game 4 - first two periods

Period

TOI

SF

SA

SF%

SCF

SCA

SCF%

HDCF

HDCA

HDCF%

xGF

xGA

xGF%

1​

15:33​

8​

8​

50%​

10​

9​

52.63%​

5​

5​

50%​

1.07​

0.75​

58.88%​

2​

7:54​

4​

3​

57.14%​

1​

5​

16.67%​

1​

2​

33.33%​

0.16​

0.47​

25.81%​

3​

13:29​

7​

5​

58.33%​

3​

6​

33.33%​

0​

2​

0%​

0.33​

0.36​

48.02%​

Final

36:56:00​

19​

16​

54.29%​

14​

20​

41.18%​

6​

9​

40%​

1.56​

1.57​

49.85%​

game 6 - third period

Period

TOI

SF

SA

SF%

SCF

SCA

SCF%

HDCF

HDCA

HDCF%

xGF

xGA

xGF%

1​

17:32​

5​

9​

35.71%​

8​

9​

47.06%​

1​

1​

50%​

0.54​

0.54​

49.99%​

2​

16:28​

10​

7​

58.82%​

11​

7​

61.11%​

8​

5​

61.54%​

1.17​

0.76​

60.58%​

3​

17:44​

4​

7​

36.36%​

6​

10​

37.50%​

1​

2​

33.33%​

0.34​

0.42​

45.05%​

4​

18:04​

9​

5​

64.29%​

8​

7​

53.33%​

3​

4​

42.86%​

0.77​

0.82​

48.42%​

Final

69:48:00​

28​

28​

50%​

33​

33​

50%​

13​

12​

52%​

2.82​

2.54​

52.64%​

game 7 - first and second periods

Period

TOI

SF

SA

SF%

SCF

SCA

SCF%

HDCF

HDCA

HDCF%

xGF

xGA

xGF%

1​

14:35​

5​

5​

50%​

9​

6​

60%​

5​

4​

55.56%​

0.41​

0.5​

44.74%​

2​

17:25​

8​

7​

53.33%​

10​

11​

47.62%​

4​

4​

50%​

0.82​

0.86​

48.88%​

3​

16:01​

9​

6​

60%​

12​

4​

75%​

2​

3​

40%​

0.63​

0.38​

62.35%​

Final

48:01:00​

22​

18​

55%​

31​

21​

59.62%​

11​

11​

50%​

1.86​

1.74​

51.63%​

 

[Dekes For Days]

i was curious about the specific parts of games i remembered - and this is all 5on5 numbers.

Okay, and? The question isn't whether or not we had portions of play where our elite opponent generated more of one of SF, SCF, HDCF, or xGF 5 on 5. Every team does. The question is why you think it's abnormal or representative of something uniquely wrong with our team. Is Toronto doing better in the other portions of play an indication that something is wrong with Tampa? Is Tampa doing better than Colorado in portions of the final an indication that something is wrong with Colorado? No. There are ebbs and flows and momentum shifts in hockey. No team is going to dominate play 100% of the time, especially against an elite opponent in the playoffs.

 

[andora]

Okay, and? The question isn't whether or not we had portions of play where our elite opponent generated more of one of SF, SCF, HDCF, or xGF 5 on 5. Every team does. The question is why you think it's abnormal or representative of something uniquely wrong with our team. Is Toronto doing better in the other portions of play an indication that something is wrong with Tampa? Is Tampa doing better than Colorado in portions of the final an indication that something is wrong with Colorado? No. There are ebbs and flows and momentum shifts in hockey. No team is going to dominate play 100% of the time, especially against an elite opponent in the playoffs.

I think the team still suffers from being a game too late / a period too late in reaction to what is going on around them. I think they are struggling with identifying critical parts in time when everything needs to be laid on the table - there are some very critical parts in that series above in that chart that shows them a little late again. That is what i think is wrong - i believe it's a combination of many things - coach messaging or non messaging at incorrect times / relevant contextual leadership in the dressing room are the first two i think of.

I never said 100% of the time

 

[Stephen]

I think the team still suffers from being a game too late / a period too late in reaction to what is going on around them. I think they are struggling with identifying critical parts in time when everything needs to be laid on the table - there are some very critical parts in that series above in that chart that shows them a little late again. That is what i think is wrong - i believe it's a combination of many things - coach messaging or non messaging at incorrect times / relevant contextual leadership in the dressing room are the first two i think of.

I never said 100% of the time

Watching the group dynamic from the outside, I think the organization nurtures too much of a peace and love approach and lacks competitive friction. They don't seem to have the brute hostility to want to land the knockout punch against a wobbly opponent and invariably seem satisfied after a great showing despite not having finished the job. You can see them go up 1-0, 2-1, 3-2 in a series, go into Game 6 3rd period with a 1 goal lead like it's mission accomplished. They're too easily satisfied. And when the series gets wrestled down to a next goal wins, they don't have the killer instinct.

As a group, it's not a lovable character trait.

 

[andora]

Watching the group dynamic from the outside, I think the organization nurtures too much of a peace and love approach and lacks competitive friction. They don't seem to have the brute hostility to want to land the knockout punch against a wobbly opponent and invariably seem satisfied after a great showing despite not having finished the job. You can see them go up 1-0, 2-1, 3-2 in a series, go into Game 6 3rd period with a 1 goal lead like it's mission accomplished. They're too easily satisfied. And when the series gets wrestled down to a next goal wins, they don't have the killer instinct.

As a group, it's not a lovable character trait.

I am not being obtuse am i.. others are seeing the trend too right?

The bunting goal in game two is the perfect example.. so many times that play was a chance to grab that game run on the emotion and drive but a goal given up too soon after

The timing

 

[Dekes For Days]

I think they are struggling with identifying critical parts in time when everything needs to be laid on the table - there are some very critical parts in that series above in that chart that shows them a little late again.

Was game 1 not critical? Didn't you just talk about how important going hard at the beginning of a series is?
Was the 1st period in games 2 and 4 not critical?
Were games 3 and 5 not critical?
What about fighting back with three 5v5 goals in the 2nd period of game 6? Was that not critical?
3rd period of a game 7? That's not critical?

It seems like you're just picking out the portions where Tampa had a good stretch and acting like that means there's something inherently wrong with Toronto, while ignoring all of the times the exact same thing happens for every other team, including the very one we were facing.

And for the record... just because somebody loses the xGF battle or even the goal battle in a portion of time against an elite team also putting it all on the table doesn't mean you're not putting it all on the table yourself.

The bunting goal in game two is the perfect example.. so many times that play was a chance to grab that game run on the emotion and drive but a goal given up too soon after

They gave up a goal right after because Tampa was given yet another PP like a minute after that goal happened, and they scored on a mini-5-on-3 resulting from a lost stick. That wasn't from a lack of drive. We didn't have a chance to use that emotion to push 5v5. And we still did push and score 2 more goals after that.

 

[andora]

Was game 1 not critical? Didn't you just talk about how important going hard at the beginning of a series is?
Was the 1st period in games 2 and 4 not critical?
Were games 3 and 5 not critical?
What about fighting back with three 5v5 goals in the 2nd period of game 6? Was that not critical?
3rd period of a game 7? That's not critical?

It seems like you're just picking out the portions where Tampa had a good stretch and acting like that means there's something inherently wrong with Toronto, while ignoring all of the times the exact same thing happens for every other team, including the very one we were facing.

And for the record... just because somebody loses the xGF battle or even the goal battle in a portion of time against an elite team also putting it all on the table doesn't mean you're not putting it all on the table yourself.

They gave up a goal right after because Tampa was given yet another PP like a minute after that goal happened, and they scored on a mini-5-on-3 resulting from a lost stick. That wasn't from a lack of drive. We didn't have a chance to use that emotion to push 5v5. And we still did push and score 2 more goals after that.

It's ok i know it doesnt matter what i or anyone says

I saw a team play incredibly well against tampa for a bit and considering tampa clearly wasnt playing up to their standard toronto did not capitalize

I also saw a team play very bland at key moments in the series

I also saw a team with late reactionary stretches again

Too bad about the stats i was sure banking on that being the silver bullet.

I think there is a leadership issue and a coaching issue with the team and hopefully the process processes a different result but unless there is a very good offseason i have my doubts.

Again, i know going into these what i say doesnt matter because nothing can point to a problem and be correct.

If you think tampa put it all on the table in that first series i dont know what to tell you, they played well enough to win but were not at their best. It doesnt matter what i could tell you.. i could go back and re watch all the games and show every root cause of every goal / every stretch where certain things happened to dictate the outcome and where things need to be addressed.. but it wouldnt matter.

And i am not looking for any generic comment about not being able to answer for myself so i run or that i am martyring my position or i reached so far i ran out of runway.. i know my position and what i saw and what i believe and believe there is something to it

 

[TorMapleJays]

We literally pushed back in every single instance, and we controlled play for large periods of time, so I'm not sure what you mean. We didn't go "ok get through this come back next game".

Your argument seems to boil down to the idea that we need to be completely dominant in 100% of the time after we go down in a game, or you consider us a team that rolls over and dies, even though Colorado (the team you contrasted us with) didn't do that at all, and neither did Tampa - the very team we were playing against. No team does. That's a wildly unrealistic expectation for a normal game, let alone a playoff game between two elite teams.

I think you're too focused on Toronto and don't notice that other teams are doing the exact same things.

What exactly do you think our "identity" was against Washington?

That series and team wasn't different, other than that we were a worse team. Our intensity and pulse hasn't decreased; it's increased. I think it's simply that how critical and impatient you are has grown ever so slightly each year. There was no pressure or expectation in the slightest against Washington, and that impacted perception.

I was in tampa. YOU ARE LYING.

Game 4 the only push back toronto had was to shut the bench door between shifts.

I have no one on my blocked list but you are about to be on it.

Are you still going to post on here after Dubas gets canned next off season?

10 posts a day........

 

[Leaf Fans]

I was in tampa. YOU ARE LYING.

Game 4 the only push back toronto had was to shut the bench door between shifts.

I have no one on my blocked list but you are about to be on it.

Are you still going to post on here after Dubas gets canned next off season?

10 posts a day........

Deeks has said on multiple occasions that he doesn't care about Dubas. If Dubas gets canned, why would it stop him from posting? The Dubas cult and the term Dubites are made up pejoratives.

 

[Maple Leaf]

dubi needs someone to teach him about the salary cap

 

[Dekes For Days]

Game 4 the only push back toronto had was to shut the bench door between shifts.

We had pushback in the 1st despite going down 3-0 in the first 8 minutes, and we literally scored 3 goals in the 3rd period, despite our best players never getting to actually play because Tampa got gifted PP after PP. It was our worst game, but it's still more than Tampa can say in game 1.

Are you still going to post on here after Dubas gets canned next off season?

Not sure what Dubas has to do with anything, and Dubas isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but I'll be here either way, because I care about the Leafs, not any particular GM.

 

[NewEraGM]

Rangers haven't passed us, and they were hard carried by Shesterkin this year.

Ok well leafs were carried hard by Matthews 60 goals…Rangers are way ahead of Leafs.

Goalie: Vezina vs ….
Defense: Fox, Miller, Lindgren Trouba Schneider is way better than leafs defense. Add in an up and coming Niks Lundqvist…
Offense: edge to leafs but not like Rangers are far behind. Also have laf and Kk still growing while leafs have no prospect close to that level.

 

[Stephen]

We literally pushed back in every single instance, and we controlled play for large periods of time, so I'm not sure what you mean. We didn't go "ok get through this come back next game".

Your argument seems to boil down to the idea that we need to be completely dominant in 100% of the time after we go down in a game, or you consider us a team that rolls over and dies, even though Colorado (the team you contrasted us with) didn't do that at all, and neither did Tampa - the very team we were playing against. No team does. That's a wildly unrealistic expectation for a normal game, let alone a playoff game between two elite teams.

I think you're too focused on Toronto and don't notice that other teams are doing the exact same things.

What exactly do you think our "identity" was against Washington?

That series and team wasn't different, other than that we were a worse team. Our intensity and pulse hasn't decreased; it's increased. I think it's simply that how critical and impatient you are has grown ever so slightly each year. There was no pressure or expectation in the slightest against Washington, and that impacted perception.

What do you mean by the Leafs "pushing back"? The Leafs went ahead in the series 1-0, 2-1 and 3-2 with noticeable drop offs in play quality in Game 2 and 4 when they completely no showed to try and extend the series lead to 2x games. There was some minimal score effects at the end of each game, as well as grabbing the lead in Game 6, but the trend of the series was Toronto with the upper hand but unable to put Tampa away.

Especially alarming, they could have made the series 3-1 coming home, but Keefe hung up the "mission accomplished banner" 2-2 going home.

 

[rocketman588]

What do you mean by the Leafs "pushing back"? The Leafs went ahead in the series 1-0, 2-1 and 3-2 with noticeable drop offs in play quality in Game 2 and 4 when they completely no showed to try and extend the series lead to 2x games. There was some minimal score effects at the end of each game, as well as grabbing the lead in Game 6, but the trend of the series was Toronto with the upper hand but unable to put Tampa away.

Especially alarming, they could have made the series 3-1 coming home, but Keefe hung up the "mission accomplished banner" 2-2 going home.

Trying to claim that we had a massive push back by scoring goals in garbage time is pretty weird as well imo.

Cool we showed up when we were down 3 plus goals in the third and still took multiple goal losses that's not really something to be admired imo

 

[TorMapleJays]

We had pushback in the 1st despite going down 3-0 in the first 8 minutes, and we literally scored 3 goals in the 3rd period, despite our best players never getting to actually play because Tampa got gifted PP after PP. It was our worst game, but it's still more than Tampa can say in game 1.

Not sure what Dubas has to do with anything, and Dubas isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but I'll be here either way, because I care about the Leafs, not any particular GM.

Yeah.. No.

I bought one tall boy the whole game 4 and it was before the first. I don’t even think my butt left the seat for the remainder of the game.

Toronto was overwhelmed it was like Tavares return to Long Island.

 

[TorMapleJays]

Nylander looked like he was going to puke during the warmups of game 4. The night before was beautiful out. 30 degrees and hot…… I wonder what they did..

Trying to claim that we had a massive push back by scoring goals in garbage time is pretty weird as well imo.

Cool we showed up when we were down 3 plus goals in the third and still took multiple goal losses that's not really something to be admired imo

Almost as weird as promoting regular season success as a higher bar then a Stanley cup.

 

[Knies iT]

We literally pushed back in every single instance, and we controlled play for large periods of time, so I'm not sure what you mean. We didn't go "ok get through this come back next game".

Your argument seems to boil down to the idea that we need to be completely dominant in 100% of the time after we go down in a game, or you consider us a team that rolls over and dies, even though Colorado (the team you contrasted us with) didn't do that at all, and neither did Tampa - the very team we were playing against. No team does. That's a wildly unrealistic expectation for a normal game, let alone a playoff game between two elite teams.

I think you're too focused on Toronto and don't notice that other teams are doing the exact same things.

What exactly do you think our "identity" was against Washington?

That series and team wasn't different, other than that we were a worse team. Our intensity and pulse hasn't decreased; it's increased. I think it's simply that how critical and impatient you are has grown ever so slightly each year. There was no pressure or expectation in the slightest against Washington, and that impacted perception.

This is what revisionist history looks like.

 

[Community]

Ok well leafs were carried hard by Matthews 60 goals…Rangers are way ahead of Leafs.

Goalie: Vezina vs ….
Defense: Fox, Miller, Lindgren Trouba Schneider is way better than leafs defense. Add in an up and coming Niks Lundqvist…
Offense: edge to leafs but not like Rangers are far behind. Also have laf and Kk still growing while leafs have no prospect close to that level.

You're overestimating the Rags (or underestimating the Leafs). They're a good up and coming team for sure, but Kakko is closer to bust status than an elite player and Laf has been tremendously disappointing to this point. Kreider doubled his best goal output/has never broken 30g before.

Shesterkin is the real deal, but he masked a lot of their defensive issues and their forwards are nothing to write home about. Fox is a great player as well, a stud defenseman for sure... However I'm not sold on the rest of their defense either. As I said, Shesterkin made them look good.

Their best forwards (by far) are also in/past their primes at 29 or older (Zib/Panarin/Kreider).

 

[NewEraGM]

You're overestimating the Rags (or underestimating the Leafs). They're a good up and coming team for sure, but Kakko is closer to bust status than an elite player and Laf has been tremendously disappointing to this point. Kreider doubled his best goal output/has never broken 30g before.

Shesterkin is the real deal, but he masked a lot of their defensive issues and their forwards are nothing to write home about. Fox is a great player as well, a stud defenseman for sure... However I'm not sold on the rest of their defense either. As I said, Shesterkin made them look good.

Their best forwards (by far) are also in/past their primes at 29 or older (Zib/Panarin/Kreider).

Matthews and Marner masked a lot of their team defense issues last year. Miller is a stud on the back end. Laf showed huge progress in playoff And he is developing nicely.

If I had to pick a team to chear for for the next 5 years I’m taking rangers easily.

Goalie: clearly rangers
Defense: clearly rangers
Offense: leafs but wait to laf, chytil and kravtsov produce

It’s honeslty not even close

 

[Apex Predator]

This is a bit ridiculous saying the leafs had push back in game 4. Why are we trying to change the narrative. It’s simple Leafs didn’t show up and took a big L on the chin. It’s that simple. As Jon Cooper said he gave us a freebie in game 1 and we gave them that freebie back in game 4.

The frustrating part for me was we took game 1,3 and 5 but couldn’t get over the hump to get the 2 game series lead. Wasn’t happy about Keefe being happy with a split after the game 4 loss. The team no showed and that’s the attitude we come from the game with. I dont know why Keefe/Dubas try to baby them.

 

[rocketman588]

Nylander looked like he was going to puke during the warmups of game 4. The night before was beautiful out. 30 degrees and hot…… I wonder what they did..


Almost as weird as promoting regular season success as a higher bar then a Stanley cup.

Not like we've ever won the presidents trophy either so it's not like we've been the best regular season team anyways.

Above average regular season. Horrific playoffs = we're right where we are as a franchise.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Matthews and Marner masked a lot of their team defense issues last year. Miller is a stud on the back end. Laf showed huge progress in playoff And he is developing nicely.

If I had to pick a team to chear for for the next 5 years I’m taking rangers easily.

Goalie: clearly rangers
Defense: clearly rangers
Offense: leafs but wait to laf, chytil and kravtsov produce

It’s honeslty not even close

Leafs defense is way better than the Rangers. Fox is great but they were horrendous defensively as a group.

Our defense was fantastic last year but our goaltending sucked for 4 months.

 

[NewEraGM]

Leafs defense is way better than the Rangers. Fox is great but they were horrendous defensively as a group.

Our defense was fantastic last year but our goaltending sucked for 4 months.

Fox, Trouba, Miller, lindgren, trouba

OR

Reilly, Brodie, Muzzin, sandin, giordano


It’s pretty clear my guy….take the homer glasses off

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Fox, Trouba, Miller, lindgren, trouba

OR

Reilly, Brodie, Muzzin, sandin, giordano


It’s pretty clear my guy….take the homer glasses off

didn't realize Trouba cloned himself. You forgot Liljegren, and yes our group was better. They limited chances better and high danger chances better. results vs names.