What do you think of the team?

[HisNoodliness]

So this season has me very confused on how to evaluate our team and what we should be trying to do with our roster going forward. Prior to the season, I felt like we were a likely bubble team with a solid core and flawed depth. Chiarot and Petry should be decent but not great in a second pair role, Gustafsson should be reasonably productive as a Ghost replacement and hopefully Edvinsson could contribute quickly. Overall it seemed obvious that we were at least one good defenseman away from a solid defense. On offense we had lost a good bit of fire power but internal growth, Tarasenko and Kasper could make up for it. Overall it seemed like we could still use a second line center and more complete players throughout the lineup (we have defensive guys with no offense, offensive guys with no defense and very few that can do both). We seemed like a team with some glaring flaws that should be able to mostly make up for them and stay competitive for a playoff spot.

Then the start of the season was super rough. Edvinsson was better, faster than expected, but our bottom 4 was so bad that it more than ruined any improvements he was making. Everyone on offense outside Raymond, Larkin and whoever was on their line at any given time was completely incapable of scoring. The team looked and felt totally out of sync and defeated.

So that made the bit of optimism I had to start the year totally go out the window. I figured that all of our guys on the edge of the aging curve had fallen off it. Kane was done. Chiarot was done. Petry, done. AlJo might be able to be reliable someday, but not yet. Kasper might be able to play in the top 6 someday, but not yet. Seider, Ed, Raymond, and Larkin. That's what we had and not much else worth talking about. We were a team with some glaring flaws that had turned out to be fatal.

Now, we have this huge winning streak and the team looks better than ever before. Clearly this cannot continue but where will the new normal settle? There are some aspects of the Cooper, Blashill, Lalonde, etc coaching cult that I've never liked. I also think that Cooper is by far the best of the three and needed a perennial all star team to have success. So take any player on the team and it's reasonably possible that they've been playing below their real capacity for the past 5 years- especially the young guys that have never known a real NHL coach before now. How much of our losing was Lalonde's fault and how much was roster construction? Were those glaring fatal flaws not even there in the first place? Or are they still there and a good coach knows how to manage them? Or are they still there and we're just on a run-out?

So when things relax back to normal, where do you think we will be? Are we a bubble team? Maybe you think we're just a Dylan Cozens, Elias Petterson or K'Andre Miller or two away from being a contender? Is this all a new coach bump and we're going to be a bottom feeder again before too long.

And when the new coach bump wears off, who do we think will regress the most? Certainly the guys on the Powerplay are benefitting from it being scorching hot. Kane clearly won't keep this up, but will he remain a dominant force? Debrincat is in the same boat. Is Gustafson actually a good player and will stay good? Can Chiarot survive on the first pair long term? Will AlJo be behind the play all the time again? Maybe Seider won't be able to keep up the aggressiveness for an extended duration? Raymond could be due for a cold streak?

And what does this all mean going forward? Ten games ago I felt like we had to purge half the roster in the off-season. And I was pretty desperate to make a shake-up trade in the immediate term. Maybe that's not necessary anymore. But we still need to make improvements. Which do we believe in more: Kasper/Danielson fixing the 2C spot next year or Chiarot staying functional on the top pair? And if we think getting another top 4 LD should be the priority, how concerned are we about center in the long term? Vice versa? Can Berggren replace Kane? We're seeing Kane's impact on our secondary scoring and it's rejuvenated the team. Can we afford to lose that spark? If we decide that we need Kane, what's the plan as he gets older? Who are the secondary pieces that you value? Or do you think we should be looking to make a run now. If you can get Pettersson and K'Andre Miller without giving up any core pieces off the roster, does that make us a team that can win playoff series? Maybe.

Just looking for a general checkup on the team's health and future. I just don't quite know what to think of the team right now.

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[saska sault]

Great prospect pool, core is young and in a good place (signed to nice deals), salary cap flexibility going forward, depth players are to varrying degrees doing well for now. Think it's going to be another year of finishing close to the playoffs... who knows which side. The general year after year improvement may stall a bit this year, but the long term plan is in a good place. Lalonde made fans question everything, McLellan will not continue to win forever but he has the outlook much more optimistic as guys are playing hockey again.

 

[redwingsfannn9191]

I always said this team was up and coming and ready to take over the league... in 1-2 years. Still think that

This stretch has been fun to watch but I think it's a matter of time before we start the losing again . This defense is too sh*t.

Still think a top 5 pick would have been the best thing to do. Add a top end prospect to our already good pool and make moves in the off season and make a run

That being said if were gonna keep this up only to end up with pick 12-14 yzerman might as well make a play for kandre miller or a hague now and try to improve this team not only now but for the long haul as well

either way the kids are coming up next few seasons and the funs only starting. Looking at raymond seider johansson kasper edvinsson berggren keep getting better is what this season is all about for me

 

[RRhoads]

On paper the team looks like it should fight for a wild card spot. I think the depth is decent, and it should not be evaluated on what Lalonde got out of it.

 

[Reddwit]

I’m just in awe at how much better our defense looks. I mean, everyone looks bettter, but Kane, Debrincat, Ray, etc rising to the occasion under McLellan doesn’t surprise me. They always had the talent to perform how they have been recently. But Chiarot? Johansson? Gus? It’s like invasion of the body snatchers. Who are these guys? Where did they come from? How did they all of a sudden learn to be competent defenseman seemingly overnight? It’s crazy.

We have the benefit of having 2 guys who can play the #1D role on both sides of the puck, and they elevate their linemates, giving Jo and Chiarot easy partners to play with, giving us 2 solid pairings. Holl and Gus become properly slotted with the top 2 pairs in good shape. If their play keeps up, I’m much less concerned about addressing the defense.

As for the forwards, Copp actually seems to look Ok being the piano pulling center between Kane and Cat, but I think the only reason it works is because of his 2 wingers having such great chemistry. I don’t like the idea of Copp centering anyone in the top 6 but those 2. Long term, that 2C spot needs to be addressed. I’d move multiple 1sts and good prospects to get Elias Petterson, but I think Van probably wants a key roster player. Not sure they’ll find a dance partner though. Either way, that’s the type of center we should be targeting if available.

I’d also really like to add a middle six 35-45 point guy with sandpaper. Basically what we all hoped Ras would be. A guy like Frederic could be intriguing. Someone with a little more offensive punch couldn’t hurt though. But addressing our lack of secondary scoring needs to be on the menu in the offseason.

 

[Frk It]

Things could be worse, you could be a Vikings fan.

 

[SoupNazi]

It's amazing what a coaching change can do. These guys actually look like they're having fun nowadays. I think we can contend for a WC spot.

I wonder what would have happened last year if we'd made a coaching change during either of those prolonged losing streaks. I suspect we'd be in a much better position today.

 

[jkutswings]

Things could be worse, you could be a Vikings fan.

It's amazing what a coaching change can do. These guys actually look like they're having fun nowadays. I think we can contend for a WC spot.

I wonder what would have happened last year if we'd made a coaching change during either of those prolonged losing streaks. I suspect we'd be in a much better position today.

Yeah, I was not expecting THIS magnitude of difference. It almost feels like there was a private mutiny across the board, and the entire team had checked out until Lalonde was fired.

Who knows where the dust settles. But win or lose the product is watchable again, so I'll take it.

 

[KJoe88]

I’ll let you know after tonight.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

I think that McLellan has made some smart adjustments and will do reasonably well here. I also think that the win streak is at least partially propped up by a favorable schedule, an unsustainably hot powerplay, and a little bit of puck luck (that we were probably overdue for in fairness).

I think the team has a competitive back half of the season that falls short of the playoffs, which is in line with my pre-season expectations. I’m encouraged with how well Seider, Edvinsson, and Raymond have played.

Still wish Yzerman had gotten more creative in adding a legit top 4D this offseason or last season, and still not enthused with the Ghost for Gustafsson swap (despite improved form), the Walman deal, and the blue line makeup in general. Cautiously optimistic that one or two of Johansson, Buium, and Wallinder can prove to be NHL regulars.

Not particularly bothered by the contracts that seem to bother everyone else, I still don’t think that they impede our ability to sign good players - in the event that any good players want to come here.

Generally feel good about Yzerman and Draper’s drafting. The lack of a clear bust in what I believe is now 8? first round picks is odds-defying imo. I wish we found a Kucherov in the mid to late rounds of course but I think there are a reasonable amount of guys with NHL potential in our system. One of the goalie prospects truly hitting during the Raymond/Seider/Edvinsson prime window would be a dial mover for me.

I like Danielson and Kasper but I’m mildly concerned about their point production. Not sure that it’s fair to expect either to exceed expectations in that regard but it would be nice.

I’d like to add a top 4 LHD and a top six winger for the medium-long term. At center, goalie, and RHD I think you largely have to let Kasper, Danielson, Cossa, Augustine, and ASP filter in as appropriate.

Cautiously optimistic about the team’s future and probably slightly more forgiving on Yzerman’s work here than others in light of the circumstances.

I think that those are basically all of my thoughts on the team at the moment. This was a nice little stream of conscious.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I don't think we are quite as good as people think we are at this very moment, but on balance are about where we should be (fighting for a wild card spot). We kind of got where we were supposed to be, but took the long road to do so.

There is zero doubt in my mind we are still moving in the right direction. The players we need to play well and improve are doing that (See Ed, Kasper and ASP even). I don't care much about the guys who won't be here when we take the next big step forward. For that reason, I don't tend to dwell on the play of Petry, Chairot and Copp. I care about the young core and am happy with how they are playing, including Aljo who I was pretty skeptical about (and still have reservations).

I sense we are at the point where we can take big steps forward by filling a couple of specific holes. I don't feel like we need to turn over 1/2 the roster to really improve at this point.

 

[dalem177]

Things could be worse, you could be a Vikings fan.

Yeah, I'm not a feetballs guy, but I have a bunch of friends here who are not in good moods right now.

 

[RabidBadger]

It's amazing what a coaching change can do. These guys actually look like they're having fun nowadays. I think we can contend for a WC spot.

I wonder what would have happened last year if we'd made a coaching change during either of those prolonged losing streaks. I suspect we'd be in a much better position today.

I would have been cool with letting Lalonde go at Thanksgiving even. I can see why he was given a chance this year after flirting with the playoffs, but it was pretty obvious by November the wheels were off the bus. That move alone probably has us in a WC spot.

As for the team, they're performing how I thought they could. I viewed them as a bit-above average roster with some nice pieces. Given the preseason roster I felt they were capable of at least being competitive game in/out. It's nice to see someone getting them to play to their potential.

 

[tabness]

obviously we are riding a hot streak which isn't sustainable, still would be a safe bet that we don't make the playoffs, but the team is just more fun to watch now, it looks like the guys are actually having fun

 

[norrisnick]

Yeah, I'm not a feetballs guy, but I have a bunch of friends here who are not in good moods right now.

The correct term is handegg. Football is another sport entirely. Those guys actually use their feet!

 

[dalem177]

The correct term is handegg. Football is another sport entirely. Those guys actually use their feet!

Bah. They use their acting skills.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Getting better. 1st line is hot. We have a functional 2nd line now even if Copp still sucks as 2C.
3rd line is as useless as a pecker on the pope most nights, and the 4th line is average AF.

Defense hasn’t looked this good in at least a decade (which is quite sad). It still needs another guy that’s a dude. ASP will make it look realgud next year.

Goaltending is ok. We have two guys that can play at least average on a consistent basis for the first time in about a decade as well.

We need an upgrade on LD, 2C and 3RW/LW. Improve these things and this is a 100+ point team.

 

[norrisnick]

I don't think we are quite as good as people think we are at this very moment, but on balance are about where we should be (fighting for a wild card spot). We kind of got where we were supposed to be, but took the long road to do so.

There is zero doubt in my mind we are still moving in the right direction. The players we need to play well and improve are doing that (See Ed, Kasper and ASP even). I don't care much about the guys who won't be here when we take the next big step forward. For that reason, I don't tend to dwell on the play of Petry, Chairot and Copp. I care about the young core and am happy with how they are playing, including Aljo who I was pretty skeptical about (and still have reservations).

I sense we are at the point where we can take big steps forward by filling a couple of specific holes. I don't feel like we need to turn over 1/2 the roster to really improve at this point.

Pretty much this. Anywhere from 6th to 10th is where I expected the Wings to finish in the East and that's where we are tracking for right now, post coaching change.

Any additions made, need to be made with a 3-5+ year outlook. We have too many pieces in play that aren't at the NHL level yet, and we have guys at the NHL level that aren't close to a finished product. The DBC trade happened because he fell in our lap. Timeline wise that's the type of move that should have been made next season, but is what it is. We don't need anymore filler players. As our kids develop, we need to identify holes and shop accordingly. We need a shooter with size in our top 6. Could be MBN? but 2 wouldn't hurt and then would create a scenario where we have a scoring 3rd line. Say Berggren - Kasper - XXXX. We need a top 4 LD and RD. 1 could be ASP. Who is the LD? We need a bonafide 2C. Kasper and/or Danielson? We have more 3rd line quality players than we can shake a stick at. Ditto 3rd pairing D.

Finding that LD that can play with Mo if Ed is on pairing 2 or to play with ASP if Ed is playing with Mo. That's the biggest piece that I don't know that we have an internal solution for unless Albert continues to thrive or say Buium keeps surprising. Wallinder looked to be that guy a few years ago, but he legitimately hasn't progressed in any way for 2-3 years now.

 

[norrisnick]

Bah. They use their acting skills.

Unfortunately, the problem is two-fold.

1. The actors aren't punished. Even retroactively.
2. The reward for fooling the ref is ridiculously game-altering. An 80%+ chance for a goal in a sport where both teams combined average for less than 3 goals per game? I'm surprised they aren't acting even more tbh.

 

[Frk It]

On a more serious note....

I think this team has been a lot more enjoyable to watch of late and has the potential to keep blossoming into a team you have to take seriously. Seider and Edvinsson are already showing they can carry a pairing and log big minutes, while contributing offensively as well. Those are going to continue to be 2 cornerstones on the back end. Raymond is legit. It is not an accident he is involved in so many of our goals, he is a puck possession catalyst. Debrincat has had a big impact this year, Yzerman deserves credit for making that happen, he is a big reason the power play runs converts at the clip it has been. Larkin is quietly having another strong season and is the glue that holds that top line together.

When you then consider we could be adding ASP, Buchelnikov, Cossa/Augustine, Danielson, MBN, etc etc over the next 2 seasons... I think it is pretty exciting.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

They weren't as bad as before, but they're not as good as they're playing right now. They also have the most difficult schedule of any team from now until the end of the season, so there's bound to be some significant valleys to the peaks we're currently enjoying.

Most importantly, they're fun to watch again.

 

[jkutswings]

I sense we are at the point where we can take big steps forward by filling a couple of specific holes. I don't feel like we need to turn over 1/2 the roster to really improve at this point.

While I agree on paper, I'm skeptical about how well Yzerman will be able to shift gears, at least to the extent I think is necessary.

If he can change from the extreme of a plethora of mediocre plugs to not only getting a couple of key long term additions, but landing very good NHL players in those spots, then everybody wins and I'll bring the confetti for the celebration. But for as impressed as I've been with his early draft picks, I've been equally unimpressed with the vast majority of his free agents and trades, so I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Retire91]

We are exactly where it would be expected that the rebuild would be

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

While I agree on paper, I'm skeptical about how well Yzerman will be able to shift gears, at least to the extent I think is necessary.

If he can change from the extreme of a plethora of mediocre plugs to not only getting a couple of key long term additions, but landing very good NHL players in those spots, then everybody wins and I'll bring the confetti for the celebration. But for as impressed as I've been with his early draft picks, I've been equally unimpressed with the vast majority of his free agents and trades, so I'll believe it when I see it.

I think we are probably talking about two entirely different things. If we add a very solid top 4 LHD and a legit top six winger who can legitimately add offense (similar to Cat), I think we are very close to being a playoff team capable of winning a round next year. I am talking about very select, specific holes. It may not be easy, but there aren't ten holes in the dyke and there is no compulsion to sign free agents simply because we suck so much that we need to.

 

[jkutswings]

I think we are probably talking about two entirely different things. If we add a very solid top 4 LHD and a legit top six winger who can legitimately add offense (similar to Cat), I think we are very close to being a playoff team capable of winning a round next year. I am talking about very select, specific holes. It may not be easy, but there aren't ten holes in the dyke and there is no compulsion to sign free agents simply because we suck so much that we need to.

I agree with everything in this post, right down to the positions of the players to add. But I maintain my skepticism about being able to land quality guys to fill those positions.

Again, I hope I'm wrong. Just two plus players in those slots would make a big difference to rounding out the roster (with the pending kids). But major assets or dollars will likely be needed to add those pieces, and I don't yet see any evidence that this front office is willing to cough up more for a better tier of player.

Fingers crossed it works out.