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Wafflewhipper said:
A whole department committed to goaltending. It oversees, all aspect from scouting to continuing through development on a very consistent level. First of it’s kind. If dubas rung a little money out of the adv stats areas for this we might actually have goaltending prospects that are project able

Florida Panthers Establish Goaltending Excellence Department
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Drafting, developing and advancement of goalies is a concern for this organization. Haven't done that since Felix Potvin. Terrible.
 
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Wafflewhipper said:
A whole department committed to goaltending. It oversees, all aspect from scouting to continuing through development on a very consistent level. First of it’s kind. If dubas rung a little money out of the adv stats areas for this we might actually have goaltending prospects that are project able

Florida Panthers Establish Goaltending Excellence Department
Click to expand...


It's a good way to spend some money for sure, at such a critical position. If you can develop a good pipeline through great scouting, and development, you are going to save yourself in assets, always having to trade for goalies. Noting... Carter Hart was drafted in 2016, he broke into the NHL last year. Noting, no goalie since he was drafted, has played more than 10 games... it's a bit of a crap shoot, and takes a lot of time. But I do like the idea.
 
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We could hire Roy, potvin and Ralphie :). Joking aside i like their idea. I was just discussing with someone here in the last day or two about who runs our goalie scouting or if we even have that. I don’t even know if we have a goaltender scouting specialist. Do we?
 
One other thing... goaltending drafting and development, is an interesting proposition from a GM's perspective. The average tenure of a NHL GM, is about 5 years. It takes longer to draft, develop, and have a goalie become any kind of impact, than that average tenure. So the probability that a GM can implement a program, draft and develop a goalie, and have any impact on their job, is small. They are doing a favour for the next GM. There would be more incentive, to draft a forward, or even a defender, who might have a chance of an impact during your tenure, and helping you keep your job longer.
 
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Fogelhund said:
One other thing... goaltending drafting and development, is an interesting proposition from a GM's perspective. The average tenure of a NHL GM, is about 5 years. It takes longer to draft, develop, and have a goalie become any kind of impact, than that average tenure. So the probability that a GM can implement a program, draft and develop a goalie, and have any impact on their job, is small. They are doing a favour for the next GM. There would be more incentive, to draft a forward, or even a defender, who might have a chance of an impact during your tenure, and helping you keep your job longer.
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The only goalies really worth drafting are the Askarov/Knight/Vasilievski level guys in the 1st. You should still take gambles on big goalies later in the draft, but like you said it's more of a favor for the next GM.

Just doesn't make sense to invest a ton of assets into lottery odds when you can get a starter in FA for 5 mil or trade a late 1st/pair of 2nds for a mid-20s established 1B with upside.
 
I go through draft lists and look at some of the players drafted before a guy that is carrying a good reputation in to the draft as a goalie, the goalie should have been taken and wasn’t.

This tells me inefficiency abounds at drafting goaltending. I don’t totally agree with the premise of take them whenever they get around to it. They show incompetence and it’s accepted basically.

I have said before that we should have taken Carter Hart the same year we drafted Matthews. Taking Korshkov instead of Hart was bad.

Who will be the second team to do it? It’s a useful tool for Florida if nobody copies it. It will be consistent development and similar styles of tenders. They can actually ensure their prospects can actually handle a puck like something other than a hand grenade.

We have Scott and Woll and i wonder how badly they will be developed by us. It doesn’t look good at all so far. Just saying
 
if we had enough money to hire a Grand Poobah of Strategy i'm sure there should be the available funds to set up a Goaltending Excellence Dept , maybe we can give it a fancy name like Dictator of the Crease
 
Wafflewhipper said:
We could hire Roy, potvin and Ralphie :). Joking aside i like their idea. I was just discussing with someone here in the last day or two about who runs our goalie scouting or if we even have that. I don’t even know if we have a goaltender scouting specialist. Do we?
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure they just have Steve Briere, our goalie coach scout for us for the draft.

Likely just watches tape.
 
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Goaltenders are absolutely the hardest commodity to source. An organization that is consistently producing an NHL goalie every 3 to 4 years has a competitive advantage. However because there are only 62 goalies in the NHL at any time, the price in trade for an NHL goalie can be surprisingly low. So don't do this for a huge payday in trade, do it to achieve franchise stability always having future NHL level goalies in the pipeline.

All the above being said, I'm not sure there's all that much above and beyond superior scouting to get these goalie prospects. I suspect every goaltending prospect is shown the same drills, the same training regimens, go to the same goalie camps, are talking to the same small of circle goalie mentors. The late round NHL goalie is found more than made. It's the individual work ethic, the personality, the brain, the luck of unexpected maturity.
 
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Fogelhund said:
It's a good way to spend some money for sure, at such a critical position. If you can develop a good pipeline through great scouting, and development, you are going to save yourself in assets, always having to trade for goalies. Noting... Carter Hart was drafted in 2016, he broke into the NHL last year. Noting, no goalie since he was drafted, has played more than 10 games... it's a bit of a crap shoot, and takes a lot of time. But I do like the idea.
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Hey it was you and i that were talking about Our goalies a day or two ago wasn’t it? I would absolutely enjoy Leafs getting serious about developing premiere goalies
 
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Wafflewhipper said:
I go through draft lists and look at some of the players drafted before a guy that is carrying a good reputation in to the draft as a goalie, the goalie should have been taken and wasn’t.

This tells me inefficiency abounds at drafting goaltending. I don’t totally agree with the premise of take them whenever they get around to it. They show incompetence and it’s accepted basically.

I have said before that we should have taken Carter Hart the same year we drafted Matthews. Taking Korshkov instead of Hart was bad.

Who will be the second team to do it? It’s a useful tool for Florida if nobody copies it. It will be consistent development and similar styles of tenders. They can actually ensure their prospects can actually handle a puck like something other than a hand grenade.

We have Scott and Woll and i wonder how badly they will be developed by us. It doesn’t look good at all so far. Just saying
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Respectfully disagree with this. Scott spent like 6 weeks after his season with Prince Albert had ended, practicing with the leafs during the playoffs and working with the development staff. He then went on to being the CHL goalie of the year putting up a monster season going to the memorial cup and playing for Team Canada at the WJC. He gave credit to that season to his time working with the Leafs staff. Now what happened this year with his pulled groin and hip impingement surgery was unfortunate and a huge set back in his development but before that he was on a good upward trajectory. He has the technique to become a pro but he has some catching up to do now.

As for Woll, he was showing steady improvement each year playing for Boston College as well as playing well for Team USA at the WJC back to back years. Not sure how much development time he got with the leafs while attending school but I do remember him taking shots from the big club at the end of the year as a practice goalie. He has great size, technique and seems to have a good head on his shoulders. He had a very rocky year this year with the Marlies but there is an adjustment for every goalie stepping up to pro. He said himself that playing way more games and being a pro athlete was a lot different then being a student athlete. He seems like a very dedicated individual and a food student of the position. I think he will bounce back to his upward trajectory when things get going again.

I agree about Hart. Walking out of that draft with the best player and best goalie would have been huge for the organization. Seeing a goalie that was so calm and polished in junior hockey is very rare. Taking a double overager at pick 31 was just dumb
 
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Bring back Allaire and bring in Luongo! In all seriousness, I'd guess they (Leaf ownership) generally wouldn't spare any expense if it's for the betterment of the team. As a first of its kind, that moniker won't last for too long if it's demonstrated to be on the road to successful.
 
Buds17 said:
Bring back Allaire and bring in Luongo! In all seriousness, I'd guess they (Leaf ownership) generally wouldn't spare any expense if it's for the betterment of the team. As a first of its kind, that moniker won't last for too long if it's demonstrated to be on the road to successful.
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The good old days when Allaire was going to get Toskala to bring TOR to the promised land. In a contract year to boot!

I predict that TOR will get goalie excellence through the UFA market.
 
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ottomaddox said:
The good old days when Allaire was going to get Toskala to bring TOR to the promised land. In a contract year to boot!

I predict that TOR will get goalie excellence through the UFA market.
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Ha because they have a history of doing that when
 
Buds17 said:
Bring back Allaire and bring in Luongo! In all seriousness, I'd guess they (Leaf ownership) generally wouldn't spare any expense if it's for the betterment of the team. As a first of its kind, that moniker won't last for too long if it's demonstrated to be on the road to successful.
Click to expand...
There are scouts out there that make a distinguishment that they aren’t the best person to ask about goalies and say someone else is the better scout to ask. I though it always strange they don’t know about goaltending as scouts and pass the buck on it.
 
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Goaltenders can develop at all different speeds and ages.

Bishop didn't get a shot to start until he was 27 and on his third team no less.
Binnington didn't get a shot until 25 and they tried to send him to the ECHL that year and he refused. He ended up winning a cup instead of accepting demotion. If that doesn't tell you they had no clue...
Schneider was 27/28 when he got his chance in New Jersey.
Thatcher Demko who was considered the slam dunk prospect played 25 games last year as a 24 year old.
Holtby was 24/25 when he took the reigns.

The Harts/Prices of the world are rare. The important thing is patience.

Ian Scott is 21 and just missed a full season. Woll is 22. In all honesty the odds of either of those two being a thing are slim. They are both at the trajectory of most goaltenders 2-3 ish seasons away and probably more.

But there's always a guy who has no clue what hes doing giving up on a Bishop or almost giving up on a Binnington that you can grab.

Bishop for instance has been traded to Ottawa for a 2nd.
And to Tampa for Cory Conacher (remember him?) and a 4th. He was top three in Vezina voting the season after this trade.

There's always a goaltender out there. And more prevalent is the abundance of people who have no clue what their doing when it comes to evaluating goaltending.
 
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tp71 said:
Goaltenders can develop at all different speeds and ages.

Bishop didn't get a shot to start until he was 27 and on his third team no less.
Binnington didn't get a shot until 25 and they tried to send him to the ECHL that year and he refused. He ended up winning a cup instead of accepting demotion. If that doesn't tell you they had no clue...
Schneider was 27/28 when he got his chance in New Jersey.
Thatcher Demko who was considered the slam dunk prospect played 25 games last year as a 24 year old.
Holtby was 24/25 when he took the reigns.

The Harts/Prices of the world are rare. The important thing is patience.

Ian Scott is 21 and just missed a full season. Woll is 22. In all honesty the odds of either of those two being a thing are slim. They are both at the trajectory of most goaltenders 2-3 ish seasons away and probably more.

But there's always a guy who has no clue what hes doing giving up on a Bishop or almost giving up on a Binnington that you can grab.

Bishop for instance has been traded to Ottawa for a 2nd.
And to Tampa for Cory Conacher (remember him?) and a 4th. He was top three in Vezina voting the season after this trade.

There's always a goaltender out there. And more prevalent is the abundance of people who have no clue what their doing when it comes to evaluating goaltending.
Click to expand...
Lehner as well. On his 5th team by the age of 29. Part of that was due to his undiagnosed bipolar disorder though. I would imagine a lot of teams didn't want the headache.
 
hotpaws said:
if we had enough money to hire a Grand Poobah of Strategy i'm sure there should be the available funds to set up a Goaltending Excellence Dept , maybe we can give it a fancy name like Dictator of the Crease
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I’d go with Emperor of the Iron personally
 
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