We finally have something to talk about: Marner vs Muzzin

[666]

sure, but, Mitch isnt a 20 goal 75 point player, he's more of a 25-70 95 point player, and that difference is HUGE, those these days, the salaries are catching up for the far lesser players. look at Hughes at $8/per for a whopping career high 31 points and 11 goals. I'd say Marner should earn 2.9/per more than Hughes. at Least Marner signed his deal after a 94 point season. ...geez, if Hughes had had 42 points he'd have commanded the same salary as Marner on a PPG average/$$ LOL

Interestingly Marner's last 17 games paces out to 29-67 96.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Interestingly Marner's last 17 games paces out to 29-67 96.

17 is the number you pick, eh? Weird. His past 10 games he's paced for 3 goals/8 points. Yes, he had a hot stretch for a week in early november. . And including that he's pacing for 20 goals/75 points this season.

 

[Doublerum1975]

Good 2 way players that put up 20 goals/75 points make about 4-5 mil less per season than Mitch.

When did the season end did I miss it?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

he doesnt though... if you factor in tax rates, he's on par or below Rat and Kane ...in Col, Mitch would be making 1.3 less and is at 9.25, so, diff is Mitch plus 400k, and in Chi 1.2 less and Kane is at 10.5, so, technically he makes more $$ (equal to 11.8 on Toronto)
Marner is paid on par to those 'peers' and is on a better contract than many of these young unproven have proven nothing players, like Hughes, or Pettersson, or Suzuki etc.

The agent provocateur podcast said they're doing a whole episode soon with financial advisors and agents to take on this tax myth.

I can 't wait for that to come out to dismiss this horrible excuse for our rookie gm once and for all.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

When did the season end did I miss it?

My initial post showed his point pace this season PRE injury. Because the excuse at the end of the season will be "he battled through injuries". Nope. Pre injury he was pacing for 20 goals/75 points.

 

[ACC1224]

Interestingly Marner's last 17 games paces out to 29-67 96.

Yes he started the season hurt and it showed in his numbers, he was much better once he got healthy but now this.
Seems it's going to be one of those years for him where injury will be a constant battle.

 

[mydnyte]

The agent provocateur podcast said they're doing a whole episode soon with financial advisors and agents to take on this tax myth.

I can 't wait for that to come out to dismiss this horrible excuse for our rookie gm once and for all.

its a tax fact, and in a flat cap system it makes a HUGE difference
...any accountant can cook the books, but, they can also do it in tax free states too.
the difference is in Toronto (and a few other cities) they need to do tax magic to get their take home on par with teams like Tampa, who dont need to do squat, and then when the accountants in TB start cooking, its just as far again.
so, basically, these 'tax myth' BS talkers are taking a TB base salary, and then applying accounting hoop jumping to the high tax teams to get them on par with TB, but, ignore the fact that the accountants in TB can work some magic of their own, and in the US, they can do a lot more than we can in Canada!

 

[Doublerum1975]

My initial post showed his point pace this season PRE injury. Because the excuse at the end of the season will be "he battled through injuries". Nope. Pre injury he was pacing for 20 goals/75 points.

Yeah because there are no ups and downs in a season look how the team started this season things change

 

[Notsince67]

So, to be clear, you're saying Matthews sucks? It's not coincidence that the leafs have a very good record when he's not playing?

 

[Gary Nylund]

its a tax fact, and in a flat cap system it makes a HUGE difference
...any accountant can cook the books, but, they can also do it in tax free states too.
the difference is in Toronto (and a few other cities) they need to do tax magic to get their take home on par with teams like Tampa, who dont need to do squat, and then when the accountants in TB start cooking, its just as far again.
so, basically, these 'tax myth' BS talkers are taking a TB base salary, and then applying accounting hoop jumping to the high tax teams to get them on par with TB, but, ignore the fact that the accountants in TB can work some magic of their own, and in the US, they can do a lot more than we can in Canada!

Marner makes millions more in endorsements in Toronto than he'd make anywhere else, are we going to factor that in as well? I'm asking because if we are, I think we might find that he's overpaid by a lot more than if we just took all contracts at face value without factoring in taxes.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This was more or less the answer I was expecting. Good to know you're always able to offer some justification for your POV.

 

[DarkKnight]

I think we have better balance now, we'll see

Sure, but he’s a big loss, that plays in all situations. I expect others to step up though.

 

[mydnyte]

Marner makes millions more in endorsements in Toronto than he'd make anywhere else, are we going to factor that in as well? I'm asking because if we are, I think we might find that he's overpaid by a lot more than if we just took all contracts at face value without factoring in taxes.

I really doubt he makes 'millions' in endorsements, and please its just Toronto, what has any Leaf ever gotten, maybe a cameo in a Timmies commercial, or a soup ad. He'd make the same anyplace, and perhaps more on a team where he isnt 2nd fiddle to Matthews.

we arent privy to any players endorsement deals anyways, so, its a non-factor, but, that said, i doubt Pitt is an endorsement capital, but, i see Crosby everyplace, and same for Edm and McDavid ...Stars make $$ wherever they are

 

[Notsince67]

I can't wait to see what kind of nonsense you're going to get as a response here. I think I'll have a in advance, just to get a bit of a head start.

You seem to be taking some delight at a player who has scored at a 98 point pace since the beginning of November being out. Who is stupid enough to think that losing a player like that isnt going to hurt the team?
So sad you need to team up with a notorious hater to get your cheap shots in. Better take a break from posting because even for you, this looks really childish

 

[Legion34]

The agent provocateur podcast said they're doing a whole episode soon with financial advisors and agents to take on this tax myth.

I can 't wait for that to come out to dismiss this horrible excuse for our rookie gm once and for all.

lol. The guy was asked. If it was true. And then it was “consult your local tax expert. We will tell you later.” The money manager clearly said it matters where you live and tax rates effect planning.

it’s Allan Walsh’s show. He could have talked about his tax lies in detail. He didn’t. It’s not true. You are wrong. The consensus from multiple agents. GMs. Players and GMs is that it absolutely makes a big difference.

there is ONE person who argues that it doesn’t. You hold on to that for like a year. That person has his own show. Has his own money manager on. Could provide his insight. And then boom “consult your local manager”.

you are still wrong. Always have been.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

lol. The guy was asked. If it was true. And then it was “consult your local tax expert. We will tell you later.” The money manager clearly said it matters where you live and tax rates effect planning.

it’s Allan Walsh’s show. He could have talked about his tax lies in detail. He didn’t. It’s not true. You are wrong. The consensus from multiple agents. GMs. Players and GMs is that it absolutely makes a big difference.

there is ONE person who argues that it doesn’t. You hold on to that for like a year. That person has his own show. Has his own money manager on. Could provide his insight. And then boom “consult your local manager”.

you are still wrong. Always have been.

@mydnyte

Adam Wylde asks Allan Walsh "There is a rumor out there and a bit of a misnomer that playing in Canada means you make less money overall because of the tax situation. Alan you have mentioned in the past that that is not true if money is managed properly. Am I getting that right and how do I do that?"

Allan Walsh says they'll commit an entire episode into dispelling the myth. Who to believe? Career nhl agent dealing with this precise issue? Or "Legion34 on the internet"?

Like I said, can't wait till that episode comes out. Actual professional sports accountants and agents addressing the tax myth lame excuse.

That episode also went into just how significant and dramatic front loading/signing bonuses are. Something the leafs players typically have far more of than their direct comparables.

 

[Curt]

Marner had one hot 3 game stretch (Nov 2nd-6th)where he got 9 points in 3 games. Other than that, he had 3 goals/9 points in 11 games in November. His overall production this season is pacing for 20 goals/ 75 points. It's really just unacceptable. The winning streak distracted us from it.

The marner stans will never see how soft this guy is when the games matter the most. One of the most over rated players in the history of the nhl. It’s pathetic

 

[Curt]

Coincidence. The leafs have a very good record with Matthews out of the lineup. Guess he sucks, right?

The point is that Marner is having a very bad year for an 11 million dollar player. Outrageous contracts come with outrageous expectations.

Quit making so much sense. These marner stans don’t believe in facts and real numbers. His 0 goals in last 19 playoff games don’t count to the Paul Marner fan club.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I really doubt he makes 'millions' in endorsements, and please its just Toronto, what has any Leaf ever gotten, maybe a cameo in a Timmies commercial, or a soup ad. He'd make the same anyplace, and perhaps more on a team where he isnt 2nd fiddle to Matthews.

we arent privy to any players endorsement deals anyways, so, its a non-factor, but, that said, i doubt Pitt is an endorsement capital, but, i see Crosby everyplace, and same for Edm and McDavid ...Stars make $$ wherever they are

IIRC someone posted that he makes several million per year in endorsements but TBH, I don't know if that's true or not. I am pretty sure that while he would get endorsement money no matter where he played, he gets more here than he would anywhere else. Again, I can't state that as a fact but it does seem logical to me. There's also a lot more going on in that field then a cameo here or a soup ad there, that much I do know with 100% certainty.

You seem to be taking some delight at a player who has scored at a 98 point pace since the beginning of November being out. Who is stupid enough to think that losing a player like that isnt going to hurt the team?
So sad you need to team up with a notorious hater to get your cheap shots in. Better take a break from posting because even for you, this looks really childish

So now you're claiming I'm delighted that Marner is injured and that I don't think losing Marner will hurt the team. Have you no shame whatsoever in telling these lies? Is intellectual honesty a completely foreign concept to you?

 

[Curt]

Interestingly Marner's last 17 games paces out to 29-67 96.

Quit cherry picking numbers and do his whole season. Dude is playing on Matthews wing and on pace for 75 points while making 11 mil. Just beyond pathetic. Anyone who defends this selfish clown clearly doesn’t understand how math or a salary cap works

 

[666]

17 is the number you pick, eh? Weird. His past 10 games he's paced for 3 goals/8 points. Yes, he had a hot stretch for a week in early november. . And including that he's pacing for 20 goals/75 points this season.

Quit cherry picking numbers and do his whole season. Dude is playing on Matthews wing and on pace for 75 points while making 11 mil. Just beyond pathetic. Anyone who defends this selfish clown clearly doesn’t understand how math or a salary cap works

Hey man, we get it. You're a Marner hater and we understand. It's gotta be tough on you guys when he does well. You cheer for your team but hate it's superstar. Now you're stuck. If we win with him it will never quite feel right for you. We truly feel sorry for all you haters.

 

[Curt]

The agent provocateur podcast said they're doing a whole episode soon with financial advisors and agents to take on this tax myth.

I can 't wait for that to come out to dismiss this horrible excuse for our rookie gm once and for all.

Allan Walsh already tweeted out the Canadian tax this is all bs. But I suppose these marner stans think they know more about the process then he does.

 

[Legion34]

@mydnyte

Adam Wylde asks Allan Walsh "There is a rumor out there and a bit of a misnomer that playing in Canada means you make less money overall because of the tax situation. Alan you have mentioned in the past that that is not true if money is managed properly. Am I getting that right and how do I do that?"

Allan Walsh says they'll commit an entire episode into dispelling the myth. Who to believe? Career nhl agent dealing with this precise issue? Or "Legion34 on the internet"?

Like I said, can't wait till that episode comes out. Actual professional sports accountants and agents addressing the tax myth lame excuse.

That episode also went into just how significant and dramatic front loading/signing bonuses are. Something the leafs players typically have far more of than their direct comparables.

the financial expert said himself it matters. Allan Walsh was offered the chance on his own show. He could have done that. He could have taken 20’minutes…. It’s his own show.

the financial planner said multiple times it matters.

multiple NHL agents for multiple NHL players including Lewis gross. The agent of nylander. Rielly s agent. Mcdavids agent. Matthews agent. Petrys agent.

nhl GMs like Burke. Poile.

players on spittin chiclets like tuch. And any player from Vegas talk about the savings.

literally one agent said he could make up the money in the long run. After locking up Money and moving your family.

one agent. His own tax guy said it mattered. He was asked directly. On his own show. He deferred.


Wrong. As always.

 

[Legion34]

Allan Walsh already tweeted out the Canadian tax this is all bs. But I suppose these marner stans think they know more about the process then he does.

nhl players agents coaches and GMs have disagreed.

alan Walsh isn’t the king of the NHL. And his clients just to happen to always be in tax free markets.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Hey man, we get it. You're a Marner hater and we understand. It's gotta be tough on you guys when he does well. You cheer for your team but hate it's superstar. Now you're stuck. If we win with him it will never quite feel right for you. We truly feel sorry for all you haters.

Loved Marner right up until him taking a weakling rookie gm hostage and refusing to pay without a significant overpayment. I don't hate Marner in the slightest. I just hold him accountable 100% as an 11 million dollar player. Every shift. Every shot. Every pass. Every stride. Outrageous contracts come with outrageous expectations.

And yes, I would much rather him playing than missing 3 weeks.