We do 3v3 OT wrong

[ponder]

The Leafs under Keefe are an incredibly frustrating 3v3 OT team. We MASSIVELY undervalue the importance of possession. Every other team in the league tries to hold onto the puck as long as possible, they'll basically never force a "high risk of turnover" play unless it'll clearly lead to an amazing scoring chance, but the Leafs force high risk of turnover plays, even if they have little payoff/reward, constantly. Marner is the worst offender, then Nylander, but to a certain extent it's the whole team. We have now lost 3 straight in OT, and in every single one we've carelessly turned the puck over for no reason (hasn't always directly lead to the goal, but we've had 1+ careless, unnecessary turnovers each OT, when we could have/should have maintained possession). This pattern goes back years, too.

This team either doesn't practice/coach 3v3 OT, or practices/coaches it wrong. It's mind-boggling.

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[Anthrax442]

The Leafs under Keefe are an incredibly frustrating 3v3 OT team. We MASSIVELY undervalue the importance of possession. Every other team in the league tries to hold onto the puck as long as possible, they'll basically never force a "high risk of turnover" play unless it'll clear lead to an amazing scoring chance, but the Leafs force high risk of turnover plays, even if they have little payoff/reward, constantly. Marner is the worst offender, then Nylander, but to a certain extent it's the whole team. We have now lost 3 straight in OT, and in every single one we've carelessly turned the puck over for no reason. This pattern goes back years, too.

This team either doesn't practice/coach 3v3 OT, or practices/coaches it wrong. It's mind-boggling.

Simple, send ouut players who give a shit and not Marner.

 

[ponder]

Simple, send ouut players who give a shit and not Marner.

I do think Marner is the worst offender, but it's a team-wide problem, which makes me think it's more of a coaching (or lack of coaching) issue.

For example, Nylander the other night against SJ:



We do shit like this constantly. That's a reasonable 5v5 play, but a terrible call 3v3 - don't race up the ice alone against 2 defenders, wait for your teammates, maintain possession, and be methodical about your offence. I swear every single team in the league got the memo except the Leafs.

 

[Anthrax442]

I do think Marner is the worst offender, but it's a team-wide problem, which makes me think it's more of a coaching (or lack of coaching) issue.

For example, Nylander the other night against SJ:



We do shit like this constantly.

Today's all 4 goals were off dumb giveaways

 

[Gabriel426]

Funny thing is Leafs tend to play with possession during the game but once it hits OT, it is like, everyone working OT, why am I still working, I want to go home, lol.

 

[ponder]

Funny thing is Leafs tend to play with possession during the game but once it hits OT, it is like, everyone working OT, why am I still working, I want to go home, lol.

Agreed, although I think what it means to be a possession oriented team is different 5v5 vs. 3v3. 5v5, being possession oriented does mean taking chances to hold on to the puck - for example, trying to enter the opposing zone with possession (despite turnover risk) instead of dump and chase. Or likewise, trying the high risk breakout pass instead of icing it or throwing it up ice to an area. This is because simply holding onto the puck is rarely an option 5v5, there's too little time and space, it's either "chip it down the ice" or "take a risk to maintain possession".

But 3v3, you rarely have to take these risks. If you want to hold onto the puck, you mostly just can, as there's so much time/space. And almost always you SHOULD just hold on to it, risks are only for generating very high quality scoring chances. You don't risk turnovers otherwise, whether it be via low quality shots on net, trying to take on 2 defenders on your own, etc. As far as I can tell, every team plays like this except the Leafs.

The Leafs play 3v3 the same way we play 5v5, when it's a completely different game. It looks like we don't practice 3v3 at all.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Marner is prone to careless turnovers at times. That was a shocking OT from him after a solid game.

 

[Stephen]

The team kind of struggles with the wrong kind of swagger at times and 3 on 3 OT and PP1 are where they are at their worst. It's messy, it's high skill, it's unhurried and purposeless until it's fire drill. You've seen it before and you'll see it again.

 

[ponder]

FWIW, in this OT, this turnover by Marner is the one I'm referring to:



It doesn't directly lead to the goal, but we gave up the puck for no good reason, and never got it back. This is just not a good 3v3 OT play - even if Marner's move does work, it buys little (Vegas still in a strong defensive position), and the move has a high risk of turning the puck over, the cardinal sin of 3v3 OT. It's all just too rushed - Marner shouldn't be forcing the move, if he has to turn back and kick the puck back to Rielly, retry the zone entry later, that's fine. For that matter, Matthews never should have put Marner in that position - IMO the play for Matthews here is "curl back to the left, kick the puck back to Rielly, regroup for a controlled entry", not forcing the rush with the pass to Mitch:

We're never patient in 3v3 OT though, always forcing plays and quickly giving up the puck.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

We should be playing a cycling and possession game in OT. I don't get this reckless need to rush with the puck.

 

[Notsince67]

Today's all 4 goals were off dumb giveaways

2 of the leaf goals were because of the guy who allegedly doesn't give a shit

 

[Hellcat]

Marner is prone to careless turnovers at times. That was a shocking OT from him after a solid game.

TBH recently, ever since his benching, he's been kinda shakey on the defensive side, there are plays that Marner typically picks off that other player's are exposing him, the Necas rush where Marner did the Ole and let Necas go right by him is a prime example. In years past Marner pick that play off. I think Marners recent point streak is hiding his recent poor play without the puck, which surprises me cause Marner is typically one of the better players without the puck.

 

[ACC1224]

Keefe isn’t a very good coach, this is just another example

 

[Burnie97]

It's tough, maybe Leafs say well we have 1 point so go for it. Especially against a team from the other conference it doesn't matter as much to give a point... overall I like that mentality. Although letting in a shorty last night to go to OT in the first place sucks.

However at the same time like people have stated, they're a possession team so why give it up so easily in OT by pressuring so fast.

They have so much talent especially at 3 on 3 they're going to get their looks.

I'd have Nylander out there every time as much as possible in OT. Doesn't seem to phase him as much. Anyway just my 2 cents.

 

[Buds17]

So does the NHL! (I'm just not a fan of the format; considering it to be slightly better than the shootout is the best compliment I can put forward).

It is what it is. A team might honestly have to score on its first chance as the end-to-end nature of it all means that the puck could very well find itself in the back of their net once the opposition gains possession.

 

[ZEBROA]

I do think Marner is the worst offender, but it's a team-wide problem, which makes me think it's more of a coaching (or lack of coaching) issue.

For example, Nylander the other night against SJ:



We do shit like this constantly. That's a reasonable 5v5 play, but a terrible call 3v3 - don't race up the ice alone against 2 defenders, wait for your teammates, maintain possession, and be methodical about your offence. I swear every single team in the league got the memo except the Leafs.

Bad by Nylander and the dude on D. Never leave a player behind you 3v3. Even if the pass got through but the shot reflected by the goalie to a teammate, the D dude would never catch the player behind him..

Oh it was the fastest man you could use as D, Tavares...

3v3 sucks overall

 

[francis246]

i said it in another thread, you can’t play Marner and Matthews 20+ mins a night and expect them not to be dog shit in OT.

FWIW, in this OT, this turnover by Marner is the one I'm referring to:



It doesn't directly lead to the goal, but we gave up the puck for no good reason, and never got it back. This is just not a good 3v3 OT play - even if Marner's move does work, it buys little (Vegas still in a strong defensive position), and the move has a high risk of turning the puck over, the cardinal sin of 3v3 OT. It's all just too rushed - Marner shouldn't be forcing the move, if he has to turn back and kick the puck back to Rielly, retry the zone entry later, that's fine. For that matter, Matthews never should have put Marner in that position - IMO the play for Matthews here is "curl back to the left, kick the puck back to Rielly, regroup for a controlled entry", not forcing the rush with the pass to Mitch:

View attachment 605397

We're never patient in 3v3 OT though, always forcing plays and quickly giving up the puck.

Also how the fck is that a turn over? The puck kind of just bounced off Marner’s stick. He didn’t really turn over the puck. It’s a bad bounce. Nothing Marner could really do in that moment besides maybe not turn too wide. Rielly has to be harder on the man and not allow that pass through

 

[therealkoho]

Matthews, Marner and Reilly

Have been outscored as a unit in OT by a margin of 8-1

No link but quoted on Real Kypper and Bourne at about 10 mins into the show

"Matthews doing big loops," is one of the things Kypper was saying, and he's not wrong. Usually that's a sign of really low energy and not a good look from an NHL player.

I think Keefe should put those guys out on the second OT shift when they're rested and full of oxygen, and maybe catch the opponent at the end of their 1st shift.

It's OK though I know Kypper is just a big hater so just ignore a guy that can actually say he has had an NHL career and has been a Leafs fan since before he started skating.

 

[arso40]

Matthews, Marner and Reilly

Have been outscored as a unit in OT by a margin of 8-1

No link but quoted on Real Kypper and Bourne at about 10 mins into the show

"Matthews doing big loops," is one of the things Kypper was saying, and he's not wrong. Usually that's a sign of really low energy and not a good look from an NHL player.

I think Keefe should put those guys out on the second OT shift when they're rested and full of oxygen, and maybe catch the opponent at the end of their 1st shift.

It's OK though I know Kypper is just a big hater so just ignore a guy that can actually say he has had an NHL career and has been a Leafs fan since before he started skating.

Split em up

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I always come back to this goal when I think about 3v3

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

This sample size is large enough. Keefe needs to stop starting that trio in OT.

 

[Ashdown2]

malgin at 3 on 3 should be a staple just saying.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This sample size is large enough. Keefe needs to stop starting that trip in OT.

I'm not sure you can really call a less than 19 minute sample "large enough", especially with such a chaotic environment like 3v3. They haven't really been spectacular in that small sample, but a lot of that goal differential is probably just noise. Nobody is going to have a great goal differential when you're getting 0.467 goaltending. And if you take any combination of 2 of those 3 players over that same timeframe, they are 7-0. I'd imagine there's a lot of one person changed off by the time they score happening here.

 

[andora]

i said it in another thread, you can’t play Marner and Matthews 20+ mins a night and expect them not to be dog shit in OT.



Also how the fck is that a turn over? The puck kind of just bounced off Marner’s stick. He didn’t really turn over the puck. It’s a bad bounce. Nothing Marner could really do in that moment besides maybe not turn too wide. Rielly has to be harder on the man and not allow that pass through

Really? He has it, possession - cuts to middle into traffic instead of wide and loses it - i dont understand how it isnt

 

[francis246]

Really? He has it, possession - cuts to middle into traffic instead of wide and loses it - i dont understand how it isnt

Are you seriously calling that possession? LOL that’s a joke.

EDIT* are you talking the turnover in the offensive zone? Or the deflection that lead to the goal?