Post-Game Talk: We didn't go up in Flames! (Beat Calagry: 2-1)

[JuniorNelson]

Tortorella works with young players. That's his strength. Why fire him, now, when the season has become an evaluation camp of sorts?

The youth movement is about to begin. Next season the team can feature several prominent rookies. This is a good starting point for changing the team culture, which should be central and not just a side benefit.

Suppose the senior players on next season's Canucks are Bieksa and Kesler? Imagine the team adds a couple of free agents and a couple of real young guys make the team. Would that iteration not better resemble a Tortorella team? Could this be "the plan"?

 

[MadaCanuckle]

I'm reasonably convinced that is precisely what they plan to do, regardless of whether Torts is fired or not. We Luongo gone and Booth an inevitable buyout, we have money. Don't be surprised if we go UFA shopping.

With a Kesler trade for young assets and 2 UFA signings named Stastny and Moulson/Vrbata?

But that Lack guy, he did get the "tank for Draisaitl" memo but he forgot it rather quickly.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Yeah, forget about that Burrows guy

I was referring to the Gillis Administration, but yes, we have had other gems in the past. Rick Rypien as well. I miss having Craig Heisinger in the organization.

 

[Finkle is Einhorn]

Nonis missed the post season 2 out of 3 years, I don't think Gillis in encroaching on that yet.

Gillis wishes he was encroaching on that. Nonis had 5x the playoff wins Gillis will have had for his past 3 seasons.

 

[NuxFan09]

Tortorella works with young players. That's his strength. Why fire him, now, when the season has become an evaluation camp of sorts?

The youth movement is about to begin. Next season the team can feature several prominent rookies. This is a good starting point for changing the team culture, which should be central and not just a side benefit.

Suppose the senior players on next season's Canucks are Bieksa and Kesler? Imagine the team adds a couple of free agents and a couple of real young guys make the team. Would that iteration not better resemble a Tortorella team? Could this be "the plan"?

This is surprising but seems to be true. After people worried themselves about about the Jensen callup, Torts gave him 16:18 of ice time last time. I know it's a depleted lineup but Torts still could have easily buried him in the bottom 6.

 

[SgtToody]

Tortorella works with young players. That's his strength. Why fire him, now, when the season has become an evaluation camp of sorts?

The youth movement is about to begin. Next season the team can feature several prominent rookies. This is a good starting point for changing the team culture, which should be central and not just a side benefit.

Suppose the senior players on next season's Canucks are Bieksa and Kesler? Imagine the team adds a couple of free agents and a couple of real young guys make the team. Would that iteration not better resemble a Tortorella team? Could this be "the plan"?

Works with young players? Kassian ain't working that well under him, in fact I think he openly mocks him. Torts is part of the problem, as is Gillis. Funny how 1 awful win has erased the memory of the rotten efforts night-by-night, the 9-1and 6-1 losses... Am I chatting with a bunch of Pavlovian dogs here? If so, just show me to the poker table...;^}

 

[Tim McCracken]

I think this is exactly what Gillis is thinking of doing. I think it's typical of Canuck fans to go a little overboard in both directions. When the going is good they want to sell the farm and mortgage our future for Vanek for one shot at a cup, when the going is bad they want to sell everything and build for a run in 5 years.

Gillis needs to fix the current situation for more reasons than what most fans think of. He needs to fix the room so that when new players come in, they aren't completely screwed up by being brought into a bad situation. He even made the comment on Team 1040 that now was not the time to bring Jensen up. A couple of years ago, when things were going well and the room was tight, Jensen would have been brought up into a stable environment. You can not be bringing players like Horvat, Jensen, Shinkaruk, Schroeder, etc up into this environment and destroy their confidence, etc. Do you want new players to come into an Edmonton situation or a Detroit situation?

Regardless of what the people who want to sell everything off might want to say, this team should be better then it is... we all know that. Not a single player on the team is having a career year, most are having their worst year in a long time, the Sedins worst year since they came into the league. Gillis needs to fix the problem that is causing this huge collapse and fix it now. Not because he wants to make another playoff run, but because it directly effects the future of the organization. It effects whether players want to sign here, it effects how young players turn out as players and their confidence level which will directly impact how good of a team we are even several years from now.

If as rumours suggest, Torts was an ownership hire, then Gillis has his 'out' for this situation... as long as ownership can see that Torts is a problem (How could they not?).

I can tell you from personal experience, the ownership group are very revenue/profit driven individuals. Virtually everything they have done with the Canucks and around the Canucks/Rogers arena property is revolved around revenues. When they see a situation where sponsors can no longer be found for the Best Buy club and the River Rock Club (VIP Sections 104-108), they see that as huge financial losses. When they see that the waiting list for seasons ticket all but dried up, they take this very seriously. And you'll also notice that they no longer say "This is the Canucks ### sellout in a row" at the games. In fact, I didn't notice they say it was a sellout at all last night.... on a Saturday... Against a big Rival.

There are many other examples I can give where they have introduced ways to squeeze every penny out of their product that they can in ways we've never seen before at Roger's Arena. I can assure you that the bottom line is where ownership is driven, and when they see such a dramatic turnaround in their product, they will want a fix. If they pushed to have Torts hired (Some I've heard say DEMAND that Torts was hired), then I see this going one of two ways.

1) They are arrogant enough to think they know more than the 'hockey people' and start making changes ala Jerry Jones (Dallas Cowboys owner), or

2) They realize how bad the situation is right now and it could very quickly get much worse, take a step back, and allow Mike Gillis to do his job with people he selects.

The Bottom line is the Bottom line, and one way or another something is going to happen to fix this. They are not going to sit back and watch their revenue tree dwindle down.

All true and declining revenue is the best catalyst for change. Imagine paying full pop for tickets to last night's game? Terrible.

 

[herbiberous]

it's nice that we've managed to free up some cash and that could serve us well come UFA season, but i think one thing that we should keep in mind is the reputation our team/gm/coach have around the league. i worry that the public way some of our best players have been entangled in drama over the last few years will give prospective FAs a negative perception of our squad.

 

[Derp Kassian]

Tortorella works with young players. That's his strength. Why fire him, now, when the season has become an evaluation camp of sorts?

The youth movement is about to begin. Next season the team can feature several prominent rookies. This is a good starting point for changing the team culture, which should be central and not just a side benefit.

Suppose the senior players on next season's Canucks are Bieksa and Kesler? Imagine the team adds a couple of free agents and a couple of real young guys make the team. Would that iteration not better resemble a Tortorella team? Could this be "the plan"?

Yeah he's buried Kassian into a Tom Sestito role and played Dalpe and others 4 mins a night.. Really working with young kids there.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Bieksa- "talking with Kes, he never requested a trade"

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Cherry is absolutely and utterly wrong which is his default position on virtually every subject.

I think he's correct in this, Luongo should keep his mouth shut on twitter about the Canucks.

And Botchford is lazy and wants to steal more scoops from Twitter, which is his angle on this.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Hope Gillis isn't fired, still the best GM in the league with some bad luck. Nobody accept Y2k could have thought the team regressed this much, but he's been saying that every year.

I'm sorry but that's laughable. Are the Canucks the only team in the league to have bad luck?? Gillis's excuse about last year being a "weird year" is absurd. It's almost as if people are actually drinking the "only the Canucks had to deal with the lockout; only the Canucks had to deal with the decreasing cap; only the Canucks had to deal with injuries" Kool-Aid. It's ridiculous.

Your second point is funny. Yes I've been saying the Canucks are in a decline every year.

10-11: 117 points
11-12: 111 points
2013 (pace): 101 points
13-14 (pace): 84 points

Hmm...looks to me like they've been declining.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I'm reasonably convinced that is precisely what they plan to do, regardless of whether Torts is fired or not. We Luongo gone and Booth an inevitable buyout, we have money. Don't be surprised if we go UFA shopping.

That would probably be the final nail in the coffin for this team. We've let talent erode, we've gifted talent away to other teams, we don't have many top prospects still, and we can end it all with saddling this franchise with some bad long-term contracts (actual bad contracts, none of this phantom bad contract ******** where the player actually has a great cap hit).

I get the sickening feeling that Torts will be fired and there will be a push to give "the core" one more year with a new coach.

If all they do is fire the coach and bring back the same core without any major additions that would be excellent! The Tank for McDavid would be in full effect.

 

[Lundface*]

That would probably be the final nail in the coffin for this team. We've let talent erode, we've gifted talent away to other teams, we don't have many top prospects still, and we can end it all with saddling this franchise with some bad long-term contracts (actual bad contracts, none of this phantom bad contract ******** where the player actually has a great cap hit).



If all they do is fire the coach and bring back the same core without any major additions that would be excellent! The Tank for McDavid would be in full effect.

Roberto Luongo's contract was easily the worst contract this management had given out. Not even remotely close.

The only reason we lost Schneider was that contract. It saddled the team to a declining asset who pouted on the bench and whined to the media. The team finally purged itself of the main reason it is where it is now. Next up is firing Tortorella and going with a rebuild of youth. I have no issues with the Canucks selling their remaining valuable assets and developing youth.

 

[LiquidSnake]

I think this is exactly what Gillis is thinking of doing. I think it's typical of Canuck fans to go a little overboard in both directions. When the going is good they want to sell the farm and mortgage our future for Vanek for one shot at a cup, when the going is bad they want to sell everything and build for a run in 5 years.

Gillis needs to fix the current situation for more reasons than what most fans think of. He needs to fix the room so that when new players come in, they aren't completely screwed up by being brought into a bad situation. He even made the comment on Team 1040 that now was not the time to bring Jensen up. A couple of years ago, when things were going well and the room was tight, Jensen would have been brought up into a stable environment. You can not be bringing players like Horvat, Jensen, Shinkaruk, Schroeder, etc up into this environment and destroy their confidence, etc. Do you want new players to come into an Edmonton situation or a Detroit situation?

Regardless of what the people who want to sell everything off might want to say, this team should be better then it is... we all know that. Not a single player on the team is having a career year, most are having their worst year in a long time, the Sedins worst year since they came into the league. Gillis needs to fix the problem that is causing this huge collapse and fix it now. Not because he wants to make another playoff run, but because it directly effects the future of the organization. It effects whether players want to sign here, it effects how young players turn out as players and their confidence level which will directly impact how good of a team we are even several years from now.

If as rumours suggest, Torts was an ownership hire, then Gillis has his 'out' for this situation... as long as ownership can see that Torts is a problem (How could they not?).

I can tell you from personal experience, the ownership group are very revenue/profit driven individuals. Virtually everything they have done with the Canucks and around the Canucks/Rogers arena property is revolved around revenues. When they see a situation where sponsors can no longer be found for the Best Buy club and the River Rock Club (VIP Sections 104-108), they see that as huge financial losses. When they see that the waiting list for seasons ticket all but dried up, they take this very seriously. And you'll also notice that they no longer say "This is the Canucks ### sellout in a row" at the games. In fact, I didn't notice they say it was a sellout at all last night.... on a Saturday... Against a big Rival.

There are many other examples I can give where they have introduced ways to squeeze every penny out of their product that they can in ways we've never seen before at Roger's Arena. I can assure you that the bottom line is where ownership is driven, and when they see such a dramatic turnaround in their product, they will want a fix. If they pushed to have Torts hired (Some I've heard say DEMAND that Torts was hired), then I see this going one of two ways.

1) They are arrogant enough to think they know more than the 'hockey people' and start making changes ala Jerry Jones (Dallas Cowboys owner), or

2) They realize how bad the situation is right now and it could very quickly get much worse, take a step back, and allow Mike Gillis to do his job with people he selects.

The Bottom line is the Bottom line, and one way or another something is going to happen to fix this. They are not going to sit back and watch their revenue tree dwindle down.

Id agree with all of this. I have no source or information but its just the general vibe I get from the owners and their past history outside of hockey.

 

[Barney Gumble]

I get the sickening feeling that Torts will be fired and there will be a push to give "the core" one more year with a new coach.

"The core" has gotten two coaches fired (assuming Torts is gone). Two different styles of coaches. Again, I say...maybe it's the players that are the problem. Who provided the offense tonight? Not "the core".

 

[MadaCanuckle]

"The core" has gotten two coaches fired (assuming Torts is gone). Two different styles of coaches. Again, I say...maybe it's the players that are the problem. Who provided the offense tonight? Not "the core".

I repeat what I've said in PGT: "complete chaos" is a style?

 

[TruGr1t]

I received an email on feb 24th, saying that renewal email packages would be going out on march 3rd.

I didn't get mine.

I'm in the same boat. I received a notification email on renewals, but haven't received anything since.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I'm in the same boat. I received a notification email on renewals, but haven't received anything since.

They don't want your business

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

"The core" has gotten two coaches fired (assuming Torts is gone). Two different styles of coaches. Again, I say...maybe it's the players that are the problem. Who provided the offense tonight? Not "the core".

Likely a bit of both. The leadership isn't cutting it, most of all they aren't leading by example (other than perhaps Bieksa). We need to infuse some new leadership especially amongst the forward core. I think by default this means shipping out a few "leaders" in the forward core as well. Kesler is likely gone, although Bieksa comments during After Hours were quite curious. Burrows may also be sold at any price, just to make room for some new leadership.

I think this team needs to show some signs of stability and a mass firing or firesale would be the exact opposite of that. Teams will be circling and offering the Canucks low-value offers if they think this team is in disaray.

 

[NuxFan09]

Roberto Luongo's contract was easily the worst contract this management had given out. Not even remotely close.

The only reason we lost Schneider was that contract. It saddled the team to a declining asset who pouted on the bench and whined to the media. The team finally purged itself of the main reason it is where it is now. Next up is firing Tortorella and going with a rebuild of youth. I have no issues with the Canucks selling their remaining valuable assets and developing youth.

I can't believe we're still seeing such stupid and ignorant comments like this.

First of all: declining? At the time of the trade he had a 2.38 GAA and .917 Save% on a very crappy team. That was after that miserable pre-Olympic 7 game losing streak. Before that he had a sparkling 2.18 GAA and was quietly having one of the best seasons of his career. You may want to slow down and do your homework before spewing this kind of idiocy.

Second of all, Luongo didn't sit and pout on the bench. In fact, he handled the situation like a professional. Sure, he made a few comments to the media but every player who is in a sticky situation with their organization does the same thing.

Luongo didn't whine about being a backup either. If anything, he was willing to give way to the new guy (Schneider) and that's why the trade talks started. Unfortunately, Gillis couldn't get it done. That's on management, not Luongo. Oh, and then you have management and ownership apologizing to him in the summer and pleading him to start fresh, then they hand the reins to Lack after the first sign of weakness from Luongo. Nobody could make up their minds and it obviously drove Roberto nuts.

That's the situation. He didn't whine. He didn't pout. He was just in a crappy situation which was handled by crappy management.

 

[B-rock]

canucks should seriously look at shutting down henrik sedin for the rest of the season if he's trying to battle through an injury, you'd have to pay pretty close attention lately to even notice that he's playing

if he's healthy and isn't battling through anything...yikes

He's not healthy. That type of rib injury takes months to recover from. I'm honestly unsure as to how he's playing through it at the moment. One more cross check there and he's back out for another 2-3 weeks i would guess.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I can't believe we're still seeing such stupid and ignorant comments like this.

First of all: declining? At the time of the trade he had a 2.38 GAA and .917 Save% on a very crappy team. That was after that miserable pre-Olympic 7 game losing streak. Before that he had a sparkling 2.18 GAA and was quietly having one of the best seasons of his career. You may want to slow down and do your homework before spewing this kind of idiocy.

Second of all, Luongo didn't sit and pout on the bench. In fact, he handled the situation like a professional. Sure, he made a few comments to the media but every player who is in a sticky situation with their organization does the same thing.

Luongo didn't whine about being a backup either. If anything, he was willing to give way to the new guy (Schneider) and that's why the trade talks started. Unfortunately, Gillis couldn't get it done. That's on management, not Luongo. Oh, and then you have management and ownership apologizing to him in the summer and pleading him to start fresh, then they hand the reins to Lack after the first sign of weakness from Luongo. Nobody could make up their minds and it obviously drove Roberto nuts.

That's the situation. He didn't whine. He didn't pout. He was just in a crappy situation which was handled by crappy management.

Absolutely agree. It's a shame some people still think that way.

 

[Lundface*]

I can't believe we're still seeing such stupid and ignorant comments like this.

First of all: declining? At the time of the trade he had a 2.38 GAA and .917 Save% on a very crappy team. That was after that miserable pre-Olympic 7 game losing streak. Before that he had a sparkling 2.18 GAA and was quietly having one of the best seasons of his career. You may want to slow down and do your homework before spewing this kind of idiocy.

Second of all, Luongo didn't sit and pout on the bench. In fact, he handled the situation like a professional. Sure, he made a few comments to the media but every player who is in a sticky situation with their organization does the same thing.

Luongo didn't whine about being a backup either. If anything, he was willing to give way to the new guy (Schneider) and that's why the trade talks started. Unfortunately, Gillis couldn't get it done. That's on management, not Luongo. Oh, and then you have management and ownership apologizing to him in the summer and pleading him to start fresh, then they hand the reins to Lack after the first sign of weakness from Luongo. Nobody could make up their minds and it obviously drove Roberto nuts.

That's the situation. He didn't whine. He didn't pout. He was just in a crappy situation which was handled by crappy management.

Anyone that can take a step back and use a few brain cells can see why this problem even arose: Luongo was outplayed by the other players on the roster. It's that simple.

How is using a better option being mistreated? Henrik is playing like trash right now. He played 15 minutes last game, Kesler played 25. Is he being mistreated? Is it justified for him to go and request a trade? Think about what you're saying.

Every team "mistreats" every player on their team if this is the case. Players performing well earn the most time. If they prove to be the most productive in those minutes they deserve to play. Every once in a while you will get true cases of bad decisions by coaches, not using better options more.

This isn't even close to one of them. Instead of closing your eyes and regurgitating what you hear in the media think of the chain of events. Luongo was outplayed handily by Schneider. Van continued to use Luongo evidenced by his 55 games played to Schneiders 33. This despite the fact that Schneider had a .937 save percentage and 1.96 GAA compared to Luongo's .919 and 2.41. Those numbers aren't even close.

Despite this Luongo was rightfully started in LA. So far any mistreatment?

Luongo starts the first two games and Van loses both. Luongo's numbers? .891 % and 3.59 goals against. Hardly doing well, so guess what the team turned to Schneider. Is this mistreatment? Schneider loses his first game 1-0. They went back to him they won 3-1, and in game 5 he lost in OT 2-1. Schneider finished with a .960% and 1.31 GAA. This all behind the same team, against the exact same team.

Immediately after that post season he asks for a trade. How is that at all a normal reaction to that situation? He asked to be traded despite starting more games in the season.



The only hilarious thing is how people can be so blind to bash the organization for this fiasco and Luongo gets off free of any criticism.

Gillis trys to trade Luongo for any value, being handcuffed by the NTC since Luongo wants to go to Florida. It doesn't happen. Van was extremely high on Schneider and rightfully so and this whole fiasco ends with Van having to trade Cory.

This past season again he gets the majority of starts. His numbers again are worse than his backups, but this isn't really an issue since he is still more than doubling Lack's starts. Prior to the Olympic break he lets in 3,4,3,4,3,4 goals...Lack plays after and gets a shutout then loses in a 7th round shootout letting in only one goal. We don't even know if there was a deal being considered before the outdoor game, but either way it isn't some blasphemy going with the goalie playing better.

You can post your reasons for thinking he was "mistreated" in Vancouver. I personally think he had it pretty good with a massive contract, being named captain and basically getting the keys to the city. Much like on the ice the first sign of adversity and this guy crumbles. Boo hoo they started they better goalie in a playoff series...and they were right since he outplayed Luongo and gave the team a chance. Luongo puts himself first (which is fine, he wants to play) and the organization is **** on for supposedly "mistreating" him? What a joke. Please explain where this stems from because if your answer is bending over backwards to trade him to his desired destination and then eventually taking little to send him to his one location I'm truly lost.

 

[Stealthmode16]

The situation is a little different when a top 10 goalie loses his starting job to another. Loungo was nothing but professional for a long time, he knows the business. You just flat out cannot tell a goalie that he is no longer in the plans and then put him on the bench indefinitely. No matter how loyal and how professional he is, dude wants to play.