expatriatedtexan
Habitual Line Stepper
- Aug 17, 2005
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MacKinnon maintains a strict diet of poutine and ass during the summer months.
Series Talk: WCSF: Colorado Avalanche (C3) vs Dallas Stars (C1) | Stars win 4-2
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RECKLESS
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henchman21
Mr. Meeseeks
- Feb 24, 2012
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You know very well that isn’t contained to one thread.
You seem to forget that even before Mittelstadt showed up, Colton’s game completely fell apart, mostly due to O’Connor’s injury but also because HE got worn out thanks to Johansen being a worthless POS. So getting Mittelstadt didn’t offset the continued depth issues, not to mention that Mittelstadt wasn’t in good enough physical condition nor was he familiar enough with the system to really make an impact right away.
Also, the goaltending down the stretch went from uneven to TERRIBLE.
And I know you think they could shave a few wins here and there but there is a very fine line between being a top seed and missing entirely. And remember, they WEREN’T even a top seed. They were third. One slot before they’d fall into a wild card spot. Vegas was a team that tried to rest their starters (mostly due to cap circumvention) and nearly missed the postseason. If St. Louis hadn’t faltered down the stretch themselves they might have actually passed Vegas.
dahrougem2
Registered User
Come on, Poke. The Avs made the playoffs with a 15 point cushion on St. Louis. The line between the Avs making or missing is not playing 29 and 96 more than any forward sans like three in the last 18 years.
You sit your depth players most of the game it's no wonder they don't perform.
Depth or no depth, Bednar has to learn to play others more. Otherwise he should be canned next Summer if he does the same thing to 29/96 again next season.
Well in all reality he probably WILL be canned if the season is deemed a disappointment.
FTR I am not saying Bednar is free of any responsibility when it comes to TOI management, I just think it’s still more on management to ice a roster that allows him to do that.
dahrougem2
Registered User
How good does the roster have to be? He can't ask for a 2022 roster every year. Plenty of teams with stars around the league have as bad or worse depth than us but do not run their top guys into the ground.
I’m aware of that but c’mon man, all of last year and most of this year he had NO second line center to speak of.
I’m honestly curious (and not trying to be churlish like I usually am) what these teams are that have star power and worse depth that did not run their top players into the ground.
Where I think the Avs are making mistakes in building their depth is going for too many one-way players. At least when they overloaded on defensive forwards they had guys out there who didn’t embarrass themselves in their own zone. With Colton and Wood you have two players who get into big trouble the moment their relentless forechecking doesn’t work.
henchman21
Mr. Meeseeks
- Feb 24, 2012
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With Mitts, MacK was still way overplayed. It’s mostly on Bednar.
Still disagree. Mitts was still adjusting to the system and simply didn’t have enough wind to keep up with the new system, AND Colton was utter shit down the stretch, so they went from being two centers deep to…two centers deep.
henchman21
Mr. Meeseeks
- Feb 24, 2012
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Mitts was fully capable of more minutes. Bednar was just so focused on winning each game and trying to finish first that he couldn’t see the forest through the trees.
dahrougem2
Registered User
The Bruins bottom six wasn't that great, in fact I'd say it was one of the worst amongst playoff teams yet Pastrnak averaged 19:56 and Marchand averaged 19:06.
Edmonton's depth wasn't the greatest, hence them needing to go out and acquire Henrique, Carrick, and Perry, yet McDavid averaged 21:22 and Draisaitl averaged 20:42. That IMO is the max of what stars should be playing.
Minnesota's depth was putrid yet Kaprizov averaged 21:35 and Boldy averaged 18:55.
The Devils didn't have a who's who of depth this season yet Hughes averaged 20:58, Bratt 19:18 and Hischier 19:29.
Pittsburgh's depth was so bad at times they used Lars Eller on the 2nd line yet Crosby averaged 20:05 and Malkin 18:35.
Then the team everyone thinks we'll become: The Toronto Maple Leafs with depth that is always non-existent in the bottom six but Matthews averaged 20:58, Marner 21:17 and Nylander 19:55.
There's zero, absolutely zero excuse for playing MacKinnon and Rantanen asinine minutes.
henchman21
Mr. Meeseeks
- Feb 24, 2012
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What’s even crazier about the minutes is MacK and Mikko don’t even PK. This is all 5v5 or power play. Of the ~54 minutes in those situations, they are playing 40-45%
- Apr 25, 2006
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I wonder how much of Makar's pseudo injury and Mikko's bad play is due to them trying to conserve energy because they were getting overplayed night after night.
It's crazy that Mikko played the most minutes amongst forwards in the NHL and on the eye test he played like shit all year.
It's crazy that Mikko played the most minutes amongst forwards in the NHL and on the eye test he played like shit all year.
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Considering we needed at least 4 goals to win a game due to terrible goaltending in the 2nd half of the season AND no 2nd line for a big portion of that time I would argue that Bednar didn't have much choice to overplay his top line.
I'll keep arguing that what did them in was playing from behind the entire time against Dallas. They just had a full week off they were rested. Obviously being overplayed during the stretch played a role but playing from behind combined with Bednar's system was just too much for them. Bednar doesn't play his 4th line very much when playing from behind because he doesn't trust them to score. However when ahead he trust them to give them solid minutes and not get scored on.
I’m dismissing Minnesota, New Jersey, and Pittsburgh right off the bat. Those teams didn’t even make the playoffs and frankly weren’t any good. Maple Leafs and Avs have very similar problems but the Leafs can’t even get out of the first round.
Boston—hold up on that. Not only do they have a deeper defense, they have the best goaltending tandem in hockey, if not the best goalie in hockey PERIOD. Both you and Henchy continue to ignore the fact that that Georgie let in so many goals that it required the Avs to mount comebacks nearly every night. That plays into the whole “overuse of stars” thing. The Bruins and a whole lot of other teams didn’t have to do that.
As for the Oilers I’d argue their depth at center is miles better than the Avs. They have McDavid, Draisaitl, Nugent-Hopkins, Ryan, McLeod, etc. all capable of playing center for a least a short period of time.
Where I think Bednar is painting himself into a corner with overplaying his stars is special teams. I feel like he didn’t even bother icing a competent 2nd unit power play, and his penalty kill philosophies are far and away my least favorite thing about his coaching.
Again, I don’t think Bednar is not to blame at all but I’m still more annoyed at management for the depth issues that ultimately cost them this year.
- Aug 25, 2006
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Agree 100% and especially with the bolded. Mack plays a very tiring style of PP with a lot of stop and go, changing direction, speed entering the zone, etc. He shouldn't be playing 90-120 secs of PP. Makar goes off the ice a lot quicker than Mack thank God but on the other hand he shouldn't be playing that big of a role on the PK.
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- Apr 25, 2006
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Fine, then let's address the fact that Georgiev, who's a low end starter at best (personnally I think he's a good backup), started the most games in the league this year.
Why not give more games to Prosvetov or Annunen? This is on par with the other guys playing too much. That's the Bednar way.
dahrougem2
Registered User
Feel free to go look at games where the Avs didn't trail and/or won handily. 29 and 96 are still getting played an insane amount.
This has nothing to do with coming from behind. It has everything to do with some time post-22 win Bednar developed the philosophy that the best players should play exorbitant minutes.
There are other coaches around the league with less to work with doing only slightly worse jobs than Bednar.
I believe he is a fantastic coach, but he has lost the plot re: ice times.
You want no depth? Go look at the 17-18 Avs. That was no depth. Guess what?
MacKinnon averaged 19:54
Rantanen averaged 18:58
Landeskog averaged 20:09
It can be done. Bednar has to be willing to use lines 2-4 consistently.
expatriatedtexan
Habitual Line Stepper
- Aug 17, 2005
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I don't think Bednar is capable of coaching any other way right now, which is why I'd like to see him get new assistants. I fear, that we are nearing the end of his run unless he can make some changes. Skate harder, just doesn't seem like the most complete game plan. Bednar needs to get his entire team playing in games and not just the top dogs.
Avs44
Registered User
- May 16, 2011
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I agree with many of the critiques of Bednar listed in this thread — but I think as long as the Avs keep making the playoffs he’s got a job. He’s got a cup, and this isn’t a big market. There’s no real media pressure. Consistently making the playoffs will be enough for long term job security IMO.
henchman21
Mr. Meeseeks
- Feb 24, 2012
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On the goaltending… it isn’t worth trying to win every single game in the middle of the regular season. When it isn’t your night, it isn’t your night. Sometimes you have to lose a battle to win a war. Bednar doesn’t at all understand this idea. Every game needs won regardless of what it takes to win. There is no limiting minutes, trying and sticking with new tactics, sticking with lines to build chemistry, etc. it is all about winning that game. Which does lead to regular season success… there is a clear cost to it.
Avs could have very easily made the playoffs with less wear and tear.
cinchronicity
Registered User
It is possible to tie so many threads into a single observation: Minor League mindset. Sure, Bednar has won championships at every level, but what works in the minors does not necessarily translate.
In the minors, if you get a top line of kids who grew into their bodies early, you can destroy the competition with just a single line.
In the minors, you can get away with a tight box PK. Very few opponents will have 90 mph slappers from the point. The current Avs PK is just too passive for the NHL, where every team has at least a pair of Dmen capable of that velocity.
The minors depend more on skill of players, whereas the NHL requires the coaching ability to turn on a dime, and react, in real time, to issues. A good coach manages assets, as opposed to letting them spoil.
I have come to grips with the fact that Bednar isn't going anywhere as he is just starting his extension. Still, I think he gets way too much credit. His system was an amazing minor-league system. His mentality was an excellent minor-league mindset. And the system WAS the strategic edge. To be honest, the Bednar model is great for a team happy to sniff wild card slots. Teams competing for the cup need to roll 4 lines. Those lines need to develop chemistry, not go through a blender. The teams need to know how to react and adjust within the game. These teams win face-offs, and effectively clear pucks.
The most aggravating thing is that Bednar probably has what it takes, somewhere deep inside. But he is stubborn. I'm not sure he will ever change his ways, and it might take a pink slip to wake him up.
In the minors, if you get a top line of kids who grew into their bodies early, you can destroy the competition with just a single line.
In the minors, you can get away with a tight box PK. Very few opponents will have 90 mph slappers from the point. The current Avs PK is just too passive for the NHL, where every team has at least a pair of Dmen capable of that velocity.
The minors depend more on skill of players, whereas the NHL requires the coaching ability to turn on a dime, and react, in real time, to issues. A good coach manages assets, as opposed to letting them spoil.
I have come to grips with the fact that Bednar isn't going anywhere as he is just starting his extension. Still, I think he gets way too much credit. His system was an amazing minor-league system. His mentality was an excellent minor-league mindset. And the system WAS the strategic edge. To be honest, the Bednar model is great for a team happy to sniff wild card slots. Teams competing for the cup need to roll 4 lines. Those lines need to develop chemistry, not go through a blender. The teams need to know how to react and adjust within the game. These teams win face-offs, and effectively clear pucks.
The most aggravating thing is that Bednar probably has what it takes, somewhere deep inside. But he is stubborn. I'm not sure he will ever change his ways, and it might take a pink slip to wake him up.
